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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 7:48:02 GMT -6
I know drums usually get no love in comparison to all the guitar threads and that most folks these days seem to love that overly dead snare sound, but I found a video comparing dozens of drum heads back to back that I've been loving. It clearly shows how different head choice on the same drum with the same tuning can radically change the tone of the snare and should be a great way to help choose the right drum head for the track: |
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Post by nick8801 on Sept 3, 2019 8:06:31 GMT -6
Great video!
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Post by sean on Sept 3, 2019 8:53:52 GMT -6
Man those 1 ply Evans heads have a terrible overtone on that snare.
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 8:59:03 GMT -6
Man those 1 ply Evans heads have a terrible overtone on that snare. I've noticed that before in real life too. I've tried many evans snare heads and unless you're going with the Heavyweights or something with some dampening, they just don't work for me on snare. I like evans on toms and kick though as they tend to be a little more "lively" than remo. Remo or Aquarian on snare is always better IMHO. |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 3, 2019 9:50:55 GMT -6
Remo coated ambass gets me there 90% of the time. If the music leans proggy I go clear on Toms. If it’s harder Rock I go coated emperor.
Never was a fan of the Evans stuff, especially the “dry” snare series.
Never met an Aquarian I liked either honestly, I especially detest the super kick series lots of rock dudes tend to use.
...and sometimes you throw on whatever is on hand and make it work!
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Post by sean on Sept 3, 2019 10:44:57 GMT -6
I’m pretty much a Ambassador guy all around as well. A Powerstroke 3 seems to work well for most genres for a bass drum.
I do have a Ludwig floor tom that just resonates for days, so I’ve been trying a few different combinations. Diplomat on the bottom and Emperor on top seems to work best of what I’ve tried so far.
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 10:53:45 GMT -6
I'm usually CS dot on any metal snare, and maybe a CS dot or emperor or triple threat on wood snares. I try not to use moongel if I don't have to and WILL NOT use tissue/tape.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 3, 2019 10:54:00 GMT -6
They all sound COMPLETELY different. It's remarkable. I never would have thought they were THAT different, I knew it mattered a lot but that was drastic.
Makes me think I should stop buying snare drums and start buying drum heads, haha!
The Evans drum head with the little holes all around it is one of the worst heads I've ever used. The stock Ludwig Weather King heads or whatever they are called that came on my Black Beauty and Supraphonic were also pretty horrible to my ear. I never liked the Evans with the weird sci-fi lines all over it EC2 or whatever, or the ones with funny colors and liquids.
I tend to like single ply, double ply, and a lot of the reverse center dot heads on my various snares. I've used a lot of Remo and Evans but somehow I've never owned an Aquarian head.
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Post by jeremygillespie on Sept 3, 2019 11:01:40 GMT -6
I'm usually CS dot on any metal snare, and maybe a CS dot or emperor or triple threat on wood snares. I try not to use moongel if I don't have to and WILL NOT use tissue/tape. I’ll hit the gaff before going to moongel. I feel like you can get a drum really close to where you want and if you just need to get a little bit of an overtone out the tape can do it. The moongels just change the tone entirely imo. |
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 11:06:42 GMT -6
I'm usually CS dot on any metal snare, and maybe a CS dot or emperor or triple threat on wood snares. I try not to use moongel if I don't have to and WILL NOT use tissue/tape. I’ll hit the gaff before going to moongel. I feel like you can get a drum really close to where you want and if you just need to get a little bit of an overtone out the tape can do it. The moongels just change the tone entirely imo. I usually cut them up into halves. I then go around the drum in small increments about an inch inside the rim, usually at each lug and then between each lug, until I find just the right spot. There's usually a place somewhere on the drum that kills exactly the right overtone without choking the drum too much if you do it this way. |
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 11:09:14 GMT -6
They all sound COMPLETELY different. It's remarkable. I never would have thought they were THAT different, I knew it mattered a lot but that was drastic. Makes me think I should stop buying snare drums and start buying drum heads, haha! The Evans drum head with the little holes all around it is one of the worst heads I've ever used. The stock Ludwig Weather King heads or whatever they are called that came on my Black Beauty and Supraphonic were also pretty horrible to my ear. I never liked the Evans with the weird sci-fi lines all over it EC2 or whatever, or the ones with funny colors and liquids. I tend to like single ply, double ply, and a lot of the reverse center dot heads on my various snares. I've used a lot of Remo and Evans but somehow I've never owned an Aquarian head. Yeah I hate those HD DRY heads for the most part, but I did work with a really ringy piccolo/pancake snare that it "just worked" on. Nothing else sounded as good on that ONE drum. Haven't found any other drum that those heads sound good on since.. Although, if you're just looking for hits that don't really bleed into other mics so that you can replace the hits with samples later, they can work OK. |
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Post by junior on Sept 3, 2019 11:19:45 GMT -6
Pretty cool video. Kind of reinforces my my biases on head brands, though: Aquarian = Splat Evans = Pop Remo = Balance Also reminds me of why I don't like CS heads, LOL. Good old coated Emperors and Ambassadors for me!  |
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Post by bram on Sept 3, 2019 14:36:25 GMT -6
This is a great resource and eye opening. Thanks for the share.
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Post by christopher on Sept 3, 2019 15:22:43 GMT -6
Wow! I'm really surprised. Also, its weird how different the kick sounds. At first I thought mic placement, or normalization. Does the thickness of the head affect the amount of kick in the snare mic? It just occurred to me the snare is kind of like a tunnel aimed at the kick pedal.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 3, 2019 15:23:31 GMT -6
might be sympathetic ring from the snare drum. the kick puts out a lot of energy and causes other drums to vibrate and ring.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 3, 2019 18:07:57 GMT -6
This video is only slightly helpful and interesting to me. For a true shootout they should have tuned all of the heads the same, or had each head do the same 3 or so tunings. You can't really complain about the Evans head sounding ringy when they've cranked the bejesus out of it. But more importantly most of us drummers do NOT use a die cast rim on the snare as they've done here. There's no give to die cast and they really harden the transients. So yeah, have fun debating this, but I certainly wouldn't use the video to draw any sort of firm conclusions.
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 18:12:52 GMT -6
This video is only slightly helpful and interesting to me. For a true shootout they should have tuned all of the heads the same, or had each head do the same 3 or so tunings. You can't really complain about the Evans head sounding ringy when they've cranked the bejesus out of it. But more importantly most of us drummers do NOT use a die cast rim on the snare as they've done here. There's no give to die cast and they really harden the transients. So yeah, have fun debating this, but I certainly wouldn't use the video to draw any sort of firm conclusions.
Strange. I've always felt die cast softens the transients. And most of these heads sounded tuned relatively the same to me, at least similar enough to tell the difference, but some had very bright overtones that made them seem more out of tune. And for me, these seemed tuned right in the range I'd normally tune as well, hardly "bejesus" territory. |
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 3, 2019 18:37:15 GMT -6
This video is only slightly helpful and interesting to me. For a true shootout they should have tuned all of the heads the same, or had each head do the same 3 or so tunings. You can't really complain about the Evans head sounding ringy when they've cranked the bejesus out of it. But more importantly most of us drummers do NOT use a die cast rim on the snare as they've done here. There's no give to die cast and they really harden the transients. So yeah, have fun debating this, but I certainly wouldn't use the video to draw any sort of firm conclusions.
Strange. I've always felt die cast softens the transients. And most of these heads sounded tuned relatively the same to me, at least similar enough to tell the difference, but some had very bright overtones that made them seem more out of tune. And for me, these seemed tuned right in the range I'd normally tune as well, hardly "bejesus" territory. I guess what I mean by "harden" is that there's no give to the drum with die cast rims so the note isn't as thick--more of a crack than a thwack. It's also what makes cranked up old Gretsch kits sound so great for Be Bop--tone at higher tunings. And Steward Copeland of course. But most drummers don't use die cast rims, especially for medium or low tunings. Re the tunings, if you go back and listen again for the aftering note you can hear lots of differences. Not every time, and sometimes it's a lot and sometimes it's only a half step. But a half step tuning difference on a snare is often the difference between good or bad. Its not just a tweak - it's major. And one of those Evans heads is cranked way up into high tuning range.
Also, while we're at it. Ideally they should have used a classic snare as a reference point such as a Supraphonic that everyone knows. Every snare sounds so wildly different its really hard to do a shootout like this on one drum.
I apologize if it sound like I'm just throwing cold water on this discussion. I just don't think this video is very informative except to maybe pique one's interest in trying out a head they're not familiar with. That suede head made me listen twice.
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Post by wiz on Sept 3, 2019 18:45:52 GMT -6
Killer video, thanks for sharing mate
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by Guitar on Sept 3, 2019 20:16:12 GMT -6
I need to buy a die cast hoop snare, I've never had one yet.
I agree the tuning was all over the place, not necessarily a great control vs variable.
But you can still hear some significant differences in the heads, in my opinion.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 3, 2019 20:41:27 GMT -6
I need to buy a die cast hoop snare, I've never had one yet. I agree the tuning was all over the place, not necessarily a great control vs variable. But you can still hear some significant differences in the heads, in my opinion. I don't disagree with that. Heads make a major difference. I think what this video does is get drummers and engineers thinking about expanding the possibilities. But I guess it was obvious that it pushed a button with me that they didn't try harder to make the test consistent. Honestly, I don't even know if a shootout like this is even possible because there are so many variables. You might dismiss one of these heads, yet put it on a acrolite 5" drum and tune it slightly different and bam--you're in love. I do appreciate Svart "giving the drummer some." That doesn't happen much on RGO! By the way, you may want to just buy a couple of die cast hoops and try them on some drums you already own. You might find a good match waiting to happen. And you can mic it up with that EV DS35 because I was meaning to ask you if you've ever used that on snare! |
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Post by bigbone on Sept 3, 2019 20:44:39 GMT -6
But more importantly most of us drummers do NOT use a die cast rim on the snare as they've done here. There's no give to die cast and they really harden the transients. So yeah, have fun debating this, but I certainly wouldn't use the video to draw any sort of firm conclusions.
I only use die cast rim on my snare .They don't harden the transients.they seated the drumheads more firmly to the shell of the drums. |
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Post by bigbone on Sept 3, 2019 20:55:11 GMT -6
Strange. I've always felt die cast softens the transients. And most of these heads sounded tuned relatively the same to me, at least similar enough to tell the difference, but some had very bright overtones that made them seem more out of tune. And for me, these seemed tuned right in the range I'd normally tune as well, hardly "bejesus" territory. But most drummers don't use die cast rims,
Almost all of the snare that i see in studio are with die cast rim, SIR rental got 90% of his snare with die cast.Ross Garfield drums rental also and Drums Paradise rental use die cast on almost all of there snare.!! |
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Post by Guitar on Sept 3, 2019 21:03:23 GMT -6
I need to buy a die cast hoop snare, I've never had one yet. I agree the tuning was all over the place, not necessarily a great control vs variable. But you can still hear some significant differences in the heads, in my opinion. I don't disagree with that. Heads make a major difference. I think what this video does is get drummers and engineers thinking about expanding the possibilities. But I guess it was obvious that it pushed a button with me that they didn't try harder to make the test consistent. Honestly, I don't even know if a shootout like this is even possible because there are so many variables. You might dismiss one of these heads, yet put it on a acrolite 5" drum and tune it slightly different and bam--you're in love. I do appreciate Svart "giving the drummer some." That doesn't happen much on RGO! By the way, you may want to just buy a couple of die cast hoops and try them on some drums you already own. You might find a good match waiting to happen. And you can mic it up with that EV DS35 because I was meaning to ask you if you've ever used that on snare! The DS35 is one of mine that died, but I've been off and on looking at tracking another one down. I never did find the best use for it, but probably from lack of trying. I don't really enjoy laboring over shootouts and stuff but you have to sometimes to learn your gear. I also wonder if head thickness, etc, affects the tuning of the drum regarding same tension / different pitches. I wouldn't be surprised. |
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Post by svart on Sept 3, 2019 21:07:53 GMT -6
But most drummers don't use die cast rims,
Almost all of the snare that i see in studio are with die cast rim, SIR rental got 90% of his snare with die cast.Ross Garfield drums rental also and Drums Paradise rental use die cast on almost all of there snare.!! I switched most of my snares to diecast. Easier to tune, stays in tune longer, better rimshots without the clank you get on tripleflanged hoops. |
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