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Post by gouge on Aug 2, 2019 1:20:09 GMT -6
looking for thoughts, ideas, suggestions for a good fig 8 mic to pair with an mkh405 for m/s recording.
i used to use a c414 or jolly mod ribbon mic with an rn17 as mid but no longer have access to them.
thx.
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Post by gouge on Aug 2, 2019 5:29:39 GMT -6
the samar al95 is probably a solid option? has anyone heard a pre release? markfouxman |
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Post by Ward on Aug 2, 2019 6:10:39 GMT -6
OK, most any ribbon makes a great S mic. The Samar VL37 is also excellent. A pair of them is great for Blumlein, which in my opinion blows MS away.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2019 6:50:47 GMT -6
MKH30 or other single diaphragm SDC. Will give the best imaging and closest tonal match.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2019 6:55:30 GMT -6
A pair of them is great for Blumlein, which in my opinion blows MS away. Totally disagree. I run ribbons MS rather than Blum. It’s the same pattern theoretically but MS gives a result stronger in center image (kick drum etc) and goes less wide if needed with no loss of highs. Blum is usually hard to center in close proximity and the highs go to shit if you pan in, as it’s only meant to be hard panned. |
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Post by gouge on Aug 2, 2019 6:57:20 GMT -6
ill been keeping an eye out for an mkh30 but reality is its probly not within budget.
i was reading about the emesser mic which is a little cheaper.
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Post by gouge on Aug 2, 2019 6:59:20 GMT -6
OK, most any ribbon makes a great S mic. The Samar VL37 is also excellent. A pair of them is great for Blumlein, which in my opinion blows MS away. i dont have any broad use ribbons so the samar could have other uses. i kinda prefer ms or xy too. whenever i try blumlein i feel too locked in to the sound it has. |
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Post by EmRR on Aug 2, 2019 8:07:21 GMT -6
ill been keeping an eye out for an mkh30 but reality is its probly not within budget. i was reading about the emesser mic which is a little cheaper. Yeah, anything under $900 on an MKH30 is a deal, that's sorta the average used price. Ditto on the emesser, haven't used one. I wonder about the AKG SDC option too, it's maybe the least expensive. I see the ck 94 is discontinued, I have seen that mic sell inexpensively on ebay. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 2, 2019 9:23:29 GMT -6
Scheops MK8 is a good side mic.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 10:13:51 GMT -6
OK, most any ribbon makes a great S mic. The Samar VL37 is also excellent. A pair of them is great for Blumlein, which in my opinion blows MS away. I use a Samar VL38a for side (usually Schoeps MK21 for Mid). The Samar is very smooth and I love the off-axis rejection of the ribbon. Blumlein is a great technique that's made a lot of good recordings, but I don't much like it myself. I like the adjustability of M/S and the fact that it works will in a setup with flanking omnis. But whatever your preferences, the Samar is a great mic. |
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Post by Blackdawg on Aug 2, 2019 12:00:03 GMT -6
I personally don't love MS much. It just never sounds as natural. But stacking an mk4 or mk21 on an mk8 in a single rycote is the best way to have a stereo reference on a production set. Portable and wind protected.
Otherwise I'll take ortf or spaced pair any day.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2019 14:26:22 GMT -6
Otherwise I'll take ortf or spaced pair any day. If I were going to use only two mics, it would nearly always be ORTF. I agree that M/S by itself is somewhat lacking, for the same reasons of any coincident pair. The sweet spot is just too narrow and the image collapses as soon as you move off to the side a little. M/S, Blumlein and X/Y are all the same in that regard. But M/S in conjunction with a spaced pair can be really nice. You can avoid the hole-in-the-middle while still having a nice robust image that doesn't demand a sweet spot. And a lot of what I do goes to the musicians as stereo, but also stays in my room for my evil experiments in multichannel. M/S plus spaced mics maps very nicely into both configurations. |
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Post by Ward on Aug 2, 2019 17:42:00 GMT -6
A pair of them is great for Blumlein, which in my opinion blows MS away. Totally disagree. I run ribbons MS rather than Blum. It’s the same pattern theoretically but MS gives a result stronger in center image (kick drum etc) and goes less wide if needed with no loss of highs. Blum is usually hard to center in close proximity and the highs go to shit if you pan in, as it’s only meant to be hard panned. And you know what? That's totally OK! we are allowed to like different things, mics, gear, techniques etc and are able to learn from each other because of it! As has been stated above, M/S sounds kind of fakey and flakey to me. And I do prefer AB or ORTF overall, but sometimes Blumlein is magic. Just like I'm sure M/S is magic sometimes for you!  |
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Post by Guitar on Aug 2, 2019 17:59:14 GMT -6
M/S and spaced pair (AB) sound totally different on a drum set, but I like both of them for their own unique sounds. MS is more of a precise pinpoint image that works in conjunction with a closely spaced overhead stereo pair to create an accurate drum image. Spaced pair is going to give more of a wide, separated sound, which rocks in a different way like Bonham or something.
That is the application I have done the most comparison with these two methods.
I guess M/S is a pretty cool acoustic guitar thing for me also. Similar results vs spaced pair to the drum description. These methods are like two sisters to me. Different people from the same parents.
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Post by gouge on Aug 2, 2019 22:26:16 GMT -6
i looked up the ambient emesser and it has a pretty high hpf so it's going to be limited in application outside of stereo recording.
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Post by reddirt on Aug 3, 2019 16:32:29 GMT -6
Can someone tell me why we are so into M/S; I know it sounds lovely in ideal situations but if it is momo-ed for whatever reason , the sides are cancelled and depending on how much you've made of that sound it can turn to the proverbial.
Yeah, I know Im probably showing my age but a lot are listening on a single blue tooth speaker....
School me.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by gouge on Aug 3, 2019 16:45:25 GMT -6
for me one word justifies m/s
drums
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Post by EmRR on Aug 3, 2019 17:09:30 GMT -6
Can someone tell me why we are so into M/S; I know it sounds lovely in ideal situations but if it is momo-ed for whatever reason , the sides are cancelled and depending on how much you've made of that sound it can turn to the proverbial. Yeah, I know Im probably showing my age but a lot are listening on a single blue tooth speaker.... School me. Cheers, Ross You are quoting the exact reason people have historically argued for it; mono compatibility. Many POV’s can be had. |
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Post by Guitar on Aug 3, 2019 17:11:05 GMT -6
You're not going to hear the width in mono anyway, so I don't really see the problem. Beyond that, a mono bluetooth speaker is the furthest thing from a "proper" sound system so to cater to that I think would be feeding the worms instead of the cattle.
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Post by gouge on Aug 3, 2019 17:36:30 GMT -6
Can someone tell me why we are so into M/S; I know it sounds lovely in ideal situations but if it is momo-ed for whatever reason , the sides are cancelled and depending on how much you've made of that sound it can turn to the proverbial. Yeah, I know Im probably showing my age but a lot are listening on a single blue tooth speaker.... School me. Cheers, Ross You are quoting the exact reason people have historically argued for it; mono compatibility. Many POV’s can be had. yup. it works in mono because its based around a mono main mic. |
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Post by reddirt on Aug 3, 2019 22:20:47 GMT -6
I absolutely get the working in mono angle of it but my point is if you've got the sides as a big part of your sound then in mono that sound is dead in the water and the balance of that instrument could now be too low.
Cheers, Ross
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Post by gouge on Aug 3, 2019 22:30:31 GMT -6
im not the greatest mixer but i gotta say i always check my mixes in mono.
sometimes with dense mixes i start in mono because it helps me eq each instrument to find space. snare and kick being part of that balance.
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Post by EmRR on Aug 4, 2019 6:14:10 GMT -6
I absolutely get the working in mono angle of it but my point is if you've got the sides as a big part of your sound then in mono that sound is dead in the water and the balance of that instrument could now be too low. Cheers, Ross Then you adjust the technique, change the mid mic to an omni. Or use a different technique altogether. |
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Post by jazznoise on Aug 4, 2019 6:39:52 GMT -6
Much prefer to have a closer mono room and then an AB ribbon or omni pair back for drum rooms. M/S can be cool, but I always find myself having to mess with it afterwards to be happy with it. Monitoring the side mic accurately is just sort of a pain. I can mono both stereo mics and hear them clearly while recording and make decisions a lot faster that way.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 21:27:29 GMT -6
I remember a conversation a few years ago with someone who'd made a career of hanging mics for BBC (classical). M/S (in this case, 414s) was strongly recommended by the Beeb. Makes perfect sense. Multiplexed FM stereo was/is exactly M/S. So if your mono check worked in studio, it was going to be the same on a home mono receiver or if you were too far from the transmitter to receive the L-R signal.
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