|
Post by NoTomorrow on Aug 3, 2019 12:41:06 GMT -6
Ok good to know they don't have the negative feedback system. I'm happy with my Stam 67 on that front. I listened to some of Ragan's clips and these 3U mics definitely sound good.... especially for the price. Kinda looking around for a 47 tube to buy later this year. I had to cancel my Heiserman 47 tube order because I had some family things come up. Looking forward to hearing that one against the Flea. my understanding is that Guosheng just tries to make a high quality capsule that has a flatter response, so the negative feedback circuit would be unneeded. I *believe* that’s what Barbaric does with their “67-ish” mic. Now, it seems to me the negative feedback circuit is part of the 67/269 sound, but I’ve heard great things about the Barbaric mic, so there are obviously a number of ways to get a good sound. Well I hadn't heard of the Barbaric mics either.... I'll check those out too. Open letter to other Chinese mic/capsule manufacturers: please call Guosheng, thank you lol So many bright, tinny, fizzy mics out there.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 3, 2019 13:21:58 GMT -6
my understanding is that Guosheng just tries to make a high quality capsule that has a flatter response, so the negative feedback circuit would be unneeded. I *believe* that’s what Barbaric does with their “67-ish” mic. Now, it seems to me the negative feedback circuit is part of the 67/269 sound, but I’ve heard great things about the Barbaric mic, so there are obviously a number of ways to get a good sound. Well I hadn't heard of the Barbaric mics either.... I'll check those out too. Open letter to other Chinese mic/capsule manufacturers: please call Guosheng, thank you lol So many bright, tinny, fizzy mics out there. Chris (Barbaric) uses 3U capsules (budget depending) in some of his mics FWIW. It is a really cool option for a custom build, as is our own cdkelly ‘s Signal Arts.
|
|
|
Post by standup on Aug 3, 2019 14:39:45 GMT -6
I'm newly enthused about Barbaric mics. I sold off a couple of things, and ordered a new holy-crap-that's-good mic from Barbaric: a BA49, an M49 tribute. Chris built mine with a Thiersch M7 capsule and AMI BV11r transformer (should be identical to the M49 transformer, from tab-funkenwerk). I used it to record a quick demo of a song I wrote last weekend, one mic for guitar and voice, in my basement: soundcloud.com/user94420/hawk-wind
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 3, 2019 17:59:03 GMT -6
Really good! Chris
|
|
|
Post by NoTomorrow on Aug 3, 2019 18:08:47 GMT -6
Well I hadn't heard of the Barbaric mics either.... I'll check those out too. Open letter to other Chinese mic/capsule manufacturers: please call Guosheng, thank you lol So many bright, tinny, fizzy mics out there. Chris (Barbaric) uses 3U capsules (budget depending) in some of his mics FWIW. It is a really cool option for a custom build, as is our own cdkelly ‘s Signal Arts. Right on... thanks for the heads up. I need to check into both of these builders....
|
|
|
Post by cdkelly on Aug 5, 2019 16:37:53 GMT -6
Chris (Barbaric) uses 3U capsules (budget depending) in some of his mics FWIW. It is a really cool option for a custom build, as is our own cdkelly ‘s Signal Arts. Right on... thanks for the heads up. I need to check into both of these builders.... signalartelectronics.com is the website. geek out! thanks! Chad
|
|
|
Post by cdkelly on Aug 5, 2019 16:58:15 GMT -6
Well I hadn't heard of the Barbaric mics either.... I'll check those out too. Open letter to other Chinese mic/capsule manufacturers: please call Guosheng, thank you lol So many bright, tinny, fizzy mics out there. Chris (Barbaric) uses 3U capsules (budget depending) in some of his mics FWIW. It is a really cool option for a custom build, as is our own cdkelly ‘s Signal Arts. couldn't agree more, Ragan, and thanks. Yes, its true that for my baseline edition U47 and U48 microphones I use a custom K47 capsule that is made to my specs by Guosheng at 3U, Inc. (the premium mics use capsules by Eric Heiserman or Dany Bouchard.) It is 6 micron NOS Japanese PET film (very pure, chemically the same as Dupont Mylar), 24k gold sputtered, center terminated, single brass backplate/dual diaphragm (even on cardioid mics like the FET 47 because it just works better), and (very importantly) tuned to the original polarization voltage of a U47 (63v). Many of the K47 capsules he's made for others are 80v capsules, which I wouldn't want to use in a vintage circuit. There are a few other things that are proprietary about it but they are minor. I always order them in very small batches so that the shipping doesn't cause any 'gravity-induced' QC issues to come up, which can be a very real thing when you get up there in shipping weight on capsule cartons. I also measure and test them first; but its been a long time since I've seen any issues at all. he's really gotten it down to a science. I've been fortunate now to have cultivated a good working relationship with Guosheng across 3 different companies, and he really does make a 'high end' capsule in China. The only one IMO who does. Frank He, who made the capsules for M-Audio and Sterling, does 'OK' work, and I would definitely say its a cut above what you get from 797 Audio or Alctron; but I would not call it high end. I would actually call 3U's premium capsules (they do also make some cheap capsules for lower end mics) high end capsules. They are mostly used by people who charge more for their mics than I do, and compared to the prices of 797 capsules (around $10), his really do have a luxury pricetag at $45 in terms of prices for things made in China. They're absolutely worth it. It's really important for me to feel that even the baseline edition mics are a high end product, and I can't think of any other affordable capsule I would feel that way about. Unfortunately, the other capsule manufacturers in China are not going to 'call Guosheng' because they operate on an entirely different level of production volume and on an entirely different paradigm. I had a meeting once with 797 Audio about capsules and they asked me how much I paid for capsules. I told them and they laughed. 'you crazy, you CRAZY'. lol All they understood was cost and if the product functioned. They also make 1000 capsules at a time when they set up to make capsules. Guosheng makes 6 or a dozen at a time, sometimes just a couple. Whole different scale. The big players in China would never understand that world. And honestly, I've never seen quality capsules done at mass scale, so I don't expect that to change. All of the capsules I've evaluated from Alctron and 797 and a host of others over the years have inconsistency, deburring residue trapped behind the diaphragm, ripples in the diaphragm, over-sensitivity/microphonics, inconsistence in side-to-side capacitance, crosstalk between insulated backplates, DOA issues, mis-threaded holes, and just everything else you can imagine. The curse of mass production without oversight. It always bothered the hell out of me. It 'is' possible to put care into your product. I've never made a record that I didn't try to pour my heart and soul into, and the equipment we use should be the same. An SM57 is actually manufactured to a very high degree of precision and consistency. You may not agree with, say, their choice of output transformer (and I don't); but you can't say its not manufactured to a very high degree of consistency and to a very high standard. They know what they're doing. And that is a $99 microphone. It bugs me a lot to see some mics that approach 4 figures where its apparent that nobody cared nearly that much, and unfortunately I see that all the time. Sorry for getting sidetracked... lol too much coffee today. lol Chad
|
|
|
Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 7, 2020 14:10:29 GMT -6
Are folks still pretty happy with their Warbler mics? Ive been considering picking up a couple Warbler Mk V (darker 251 vibe apparently) for some studio workhorse types... Any other mics in that budget range that have come out the last few years I'm overlooking? The thing that kinda scares me is if there are issues, 3U is a small operation. Guosheng is awesome but also busy. Also resale value seems kinda iffy if I want to move them in the future. PS - I do have a pair of the CM-1 Teals which Ive been pretty happy with. ragan - I feel like you are the resident 3U expert.
|
|
|
Post by brenta on Jan 7, 2020 14:33:46 GMT -6
They're pretty good mics that are excellent for the money. I can't think of any condensers under $400 that can compete with 3U. But if you're willing and able to spend more there are definitely better mics out there.
I've sold four 3U mics on the used market and actually lost less of a percentage of their new cost than the average microphone. In my experience, the conventional wisdom and assumptions regarding microphones holding their value in resale is wrong. People will tell you that you should buy a Neumann because they hold their value, and not buy something like 3U because it won't hold it's value. The reality is that (non-vintage) Neumanns typically sell for about 60%-70% of their new cost, just like pretty much any other brand of mic. I sold my 3U mics for about 80-90% of their new cost. So for me they held their value better than most. Later down the road when there are more 3Us available in the secondary market, they will probably go for about 60%-70% of their new cost, just like any other mic.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Jan 7, 2020 14:45:31 GMT -6
I like my MKIV and love my 127 cardoid flats.
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Jan 7, 2020 16:54:26 GMT -6
I have the MKV. It is a very cool mic, and unique sounding. It's like a ribbon mic.
|
|
|
Post by tkaitkai on Jan 7, 2020 19:16:24 GMT -6
I just sold a Warbler 127, but definitely loved it while I had it. Excellent little mic for the money. Between my M149 and a few other mics, I’m pretty much covered for acoustic guitars, but I wouldn’t hesitate to buy another 3U mic.
In particular, I’ve been eyeballing the GZ47fet V for a while. Super cool to see an M49-esque mic at that price.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Jan 7, 2020 21:58:59 GMT -6
Are folks still pretty happy with their Warbler mics? Ive been considering picking up a couple Warbler Mk V (darker 251 vibe apparently) for some studio workhorse types... Any other mics in that budget range that have come out the last few years I'm overlooking? The thing that kinda scares me is if there are issues, 3U is a small operation. Guosheng is awesome but also busy. Also resale value seems kinda iffy if I want to move them in the future. PS - I do have a pair of the CM-1 Teals which Ive been pretty happy with. ragan - I feel like you are the resident 3U expert. I continue to think the Warbler mics are the best bang for the buck in audio gear. Every once in awhile I revisit my comparisons between the MKID and a vintage U87 and I pick the MKID a little more often than I pick the U87 (blind). That's not the whole story of course but I've also used the MKIDs for a million and one things over the last several years and I just think they're kickass LDCs. If I needed more workhorse LDCs of different flavors, I'd just get some other Warblers (probably MKIVDs). I dunno, I went through just about all the usual suspects in the sub $1k range (AT, Shure, Neumann, AKG, etc) and nothing really had the classic, meaty sound that the Warblers do in my view. I just think they punch significantly above their weight. Some of the newer entries in the sub $1k range I haven't tried, like the Aston or Roswell or Lewitt stuff. But I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of that stuff uses Guosheng's capsules anyway. The word is definitely out among mic builders. I don't want to overstate it. It's not like you're getting a U47 or a Tele 251 for $270/$349. But the Warblers absolutely do hang with (and in my view outperform) a lot of mics costing 2 or 3 times that. They're good capsules in good circuits stuffed with good quality components. No real mystery why they sound the way they do.
|
|
|
Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 8, 2020 1:19:24 GMT -6
Just ordered a matched pair of the Warbler MK Vs...
|
|
|
Post by brenta on Jan 8, 2020 9:07:43 GMT -6
As far as support I'm sure Guosheng is super busy, but he's still always been very responsive and helpful when I've reached out to him. I did have some confusion with him once when I was trying to get a replacement mount for a mic, but that was my fault. I referred to it as a "mic clip" in my email. He said he didn't have any clips. Technically he's right, it's a mount, not a clip. He out-Englished me lol. Eventually he understood what I was talking about and I got the mount/clip.
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Jan 8, 2020 9:49:35 GMT -6
See, I knew he wasn't running a clip joint. (drummer rimshot please) Chris
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Jan 8, 2020 12:08:35 GMT -6
Just ordered a matched pair of the Warbler MK Vs... Nice. I use mine for FOK, drum room, brash guitars, and brash vocalists. The only down side is that he doesn't have enough sales to make a "D" version.
|
|
|
Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 8, 2020 15:00:27 GMT -6
Just ordered a matched pair of the Warbler MK Vs... Nice. I use mine for FOK, drum room, brash guitars, and brash vocalists. The only down side is that he doesn't have enough sales to make a "D" version. Cool! Yeah I asked about getting Ds, but still no luck!
|
|