|
Post by standup on Aug 1, 2019 9:19:05 GMT -6
So this both IS and is NOT a "which cheap mic" thread. I keep seeing massive posts about the 3U Audio Warbler etc mics over on the purple board, but after lurking here off and on I trust this crowd a lot more.
I can't really tell much about these mics from their website or from the cloud of posts over on GS.
Here's the situation: I'm working with a pianist/vocalist, and we just did basic tracks in a very nice studio here in DC (Tonal Park, tonalpark.com). For scratch vocals, they used a TLM 170 on her. Sounds great.
Back at my place we tried her on different mics and I'm loaning her a Gefell UM70S to do the keeper vocals back in Wisconsin. The UM70S was the best choice for her of the mics I own, present, clear, not bright. Far from bright. But very present and detailed.
If you've heard some of the 3U mics, which one should I recommend to her to pick up after she returns the Gefell to me? I think the price is something she might be able to handle. She's probably not in need of a TLM 170 or a Gefell.
From 3U's description, I would take a guess on a mic that's "warm, airy" "vintage, airy" or maybe balanced. But it's a crap shoot because I've never heard or even seen any of these mics.
|
|
|
Post by Johnkenn on Aug 1, 2019 10:03:18 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2019 10:19:04 GMT -6
Ragan is an expert on these too... Chris
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Aug 1, 2019 11:05:15 GMT -6
Some of you guys remember kidvybes? His finger was really on the pulse of these, and he was a pretty knowledgeable dude. He was a big advocate. He once told me that, out of all of them, the GZ47fet V was special. I already had a matched pair of the Warbler MKID's, which I thought were great mics. I then bought a matched pair of the GZ47fet V's. Really dig these mics. Sort of a 49 velvety vibe to them, with air. I ended up selling the MKID's, but keeping the GZ47fet V's. Someone once sent me files comparing the GZ47fet V against a Horch RM2J. Really, really similar sounding.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Aug 1, 2019 12:26:44 GMT -6
ragan is for sure your man on these. He's had a fair bit of direct communication with Guosheng, I believe.
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Aug 1, 2019 13:33:58 GMT -6
Some of you guys remember kidvybes? His finger was really on the pulse of these, and he was a pretty knowledgeable dude. He was a big advocate. He once told me that, out of all of them, the GZ47fet V was special. I already had a matched pair of the Warbler MKID's, which I thought were great mics. I then bought a matched pair of the GZ47fet V's. Really dig these mics. Sort of a 49 velvety vibe to them, with air. I ended up selling the MKID's, but keeping the GZ47fet V's. Someone once sent me files comparing the GZ47fet V against a Horch RM2J. Really, really similar sounding. I'm trying to remember, did any of those 3u mics do a 67 style?
|
|
|
Post by indiehouse on Aug 1, 2019 13:39:01 GMT -6
Some of you guys remember kidvybes? His finger was really on the pulse of these, and he was a pretty knowledgeable dude. He was a big advocate. He once told me that, out of all of them, the GZ47fet V was special. I already had a matched pair of the Warbler MKID's, which I thought were great mics. I then bought a matched pair of the GZ47fet V's. Really dig these mics. Sort of a 49 velvety vibe to them, with air. I ended up selling the MKID's, but keeping the GZ47fet V's. Someone once sent me files comparing the GZ47fet V against a Horch RM2J. Really, really similar sounding. I'm trying to remember, did any of those 3u mics do a 67 style? MKID was sort of 87ish. There was the GZ67fet and the GZ67 tube.
|
|
|
Post by Quint on Aug 1, 2019 13:48:25 GMT -6
I'm trying to remember, did any of those 3u mics do a 67 style? MKID was sort of 87ish. There was the GZ67fet and the GZ67 tube. I remember the 67fet, but I guess I forgot about the 67 tube. Anyone here ever tried the GZ67 tube?
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2019 14:34:33 GMT -6
They sound very nice, based on all the clips I've heard. The AA version of the 67 tube sounds excellent to me too.
But... I still fully expect the Bock/Heiserman/Campbell and (of course) the Neumann capsules, to all sound superior in comparison. Chris
|
|
|
Post by mulmany on Aug 1, 2019 14:51:02 GMT -6
I have a pair of MKIDs, GZ251, and a MKV (the ribbon Esq one). They are all usable. The GZ versions have better transformers, but you loose the variable "EQ". I would probably go with the GZ67. ragan can give you first hand info on that one.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 1, 2019 15:03:31 GMT -6
So this both IS and is NOT a "which cheap mic" thread. I keep seeing massive posts about the 3U Audio Warbler etc mics over on the purple board, but after lurking here off and on I trust this crowd a lot more. I can't really tell much about these mics from their website or from the cloud of posts over on GS. Here's the situation: I'm working with a pianist/vocalist, and we just did basic tracks in a very nice studio here in DC (Tonal Park, tonalpark.com). For scratch vocals, they used a TLM 170 on her. Sounds great. Back at my place we tried her on different mics and I'm loaning her a Gefell UM70S to do the keeper vocals back in Wisconsin. The UM70S was the best choice for her of the mics I own, present, clear, not bright. Far from bright. But very present and detailed. If you've heard some of the 3U mics, which one should I recommend to her to pick up after she returns the Gefell to me? I think the price is something she might be able to handle. She's probably not in need of a TLM 170 or a Gefell. From 3U's description, I would take a guess on a mic that's "warm, airy" "vintage, airy" or maybe balanced. But it's a crap shoot because I've never heard or even seen any of these mics. I've had a lot of experience with 3U. It's a company with zero marketing whose whole existence is from word of mouth enthusiasm. Guosheng Zhuang is the owner/designer. He's been designing/building capsules for other mic brands for a couple of decades and only within the last 5 years or so started selling mics directly. Dennis Dreadstone (aka Kidvybes, RIP) is basically the one who turned people on to this brand. A random eBay sale caught his eye because the seller (Guosheng) published hi-res pics of the circuit and it was made with good quality components not usually seen in budget mics. Dennis was also super knowledgeable re: mic manufacturing and who was using what OEM for what components and what was under the hood of whose mics. Anyway, he turned some of us on to them and the line just kind of blew up from enthusiasm. I have eight 3U mics here so you could count me a fan. I'd spent years trying out almost all of the usual sub-$1k suspects from Shure, AT, Oktava, AKG, Neumann, etc and when I first tried a couple of Warblers, I found them to be a remarkable bang for the buck. My pair of MKID's prompted me to sell my trusty pair of 414b-ULS (which had been my go-to utility pair for years). Anyway. They're very solid mics and in my opinion (subjective of course) you have to spend double or more on traditional retail mics to get into the same quality of components and sonics. For some balance, I also shelled out for a Max Kircher MK67 and I use it as my main go-to LDC. It brings a size and lushness that my 3U stuff doesn't. It's also about 5-8x the price. I've had several other high-dollar (I guess that's relative...I mean $2-3.5k) mics through here over the years and I appreciate high-end stuff as much as the next guy. But if you want to get into the classic sonics ballpark on a budget, I don't think you can do better than 3U. I've done a lot of comparisons and clips over the last few years. You can scroll down and listen if you want to. soundcloud.com/fir_outBut if you don't want to muck around with that, the TLDR version is that the Warbler series is the biggest bang for the buck. And of that series, I think the standouts are the MKID (U87 voicing...check my comparison to a vintage U87 if you want, very close) and the MKIVD (251-ish voicing). The "D" versions of the Warblers are multi-pattern ($349 when I bought mine). If you don't need that and want to save some dough, there are the non-D, cardioid-only versions as well ($270 last I checked). All of the Warbler mics have a three-position high-frequency rolloff which is very useful. The GZ series are $599 and have AMI transformers in them and a few other upgraded components. I've got a pair of the GZ67FET and they're quite nice mics. He also sells a super cheap, transformerless CM-1. The Black CM-1 is a center-terminated, U87-ish voicing and the Teal CM-1 is an edge-terminated, 251-ish voicing. They don't quite have the weight of the Warbler or GZ series mics but they're incredible bang for the buck. I've got a Teal CM-1 that I really dig. They're like a hundred bucks or something ridiculous. Anyway. There are a lot of decent budget mics out there these days but I think the 3U stuff is exceptional. You buy directly from the owner/designer and the price reflects that. He doesn't advertise and there are no dealer markups in the chain. Best way to order or inquire is just to email Guosheng. You'll get the best price and availability that way. 3uaudio@gmail.com Good luck with whatever direction your client ends up going. EDIT: If you end up listening to my Soundcloud clips it's probably worth noting that the Warbler 127 is his transformer-coupled SDC. When I was talking about the "Warbler series" I was meaning the LDC Warblers, which are all named MKI(D), MKII(D), MKIII(D), etc.
|
|
|
Post by malkit on Aug 1, 2019 15:17:43 GMT -6
I've been following the development of these mics since Kidvybes (RIP) first started posting about them. After dipping my feet in with an MKID, I picked up a second matched piece. From there, I purchased a Warbler 127 matched pair with a number of different cap flavors, and finally - the GZ800 (Guoshy's take on the Sony c800g, thought slightly warmer IMO). All the mices have given serviceable, excellent results- and though the sound of the MKID may be a little different from a vintage U87- I find my use for it is similar to how I've heard of others using u87s (great all-rounders and go-to mics if nothing else works).
I'd add to it that the GZ800 stands out from my other mics- mainly in the way that it can bring a vocal brightly to the front of a track without compromising balance or getting brittle/shrill.
I feel like the hype for 3u has gone down a little in light of all the recreations floating around, but in my eyes- Guosheng is an excellent, innovative capsule maker whose mics stand on their own.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 1, 2019 15:19:54 GMT -6
I feel like the hype for 3u has gone down a little in light of all the recreations floating around... ...some of which have 3U capsules in them...
|
|
|
Post by chessparov on Aug 1, 2019 16:31:33 GMT -6
Like Warm... Chris
|
|
|
Post by NoTomorrow on Aug 1, 2019 17:02:19 GMT -6
Hmmm.... I guess I need to try out some of these....
It appears they have a tube model the GZ67 tube. Has anyone ever tried the tube mic?
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Aug 1, 2019 22:33:40 GMT -6
Hmmm.... I guess I need to try out some of these.... It appears they have a tube model the GZ67 tube. Has anyone ever tried the tube mic? I've never found any audio examples of them anywhere. I considered buying one a couple years back, but with no reviews of it, I was hesitant. And now here we are, with the 67 being the new mic that manufactures are attempting to clone. Though I don’t think Guosheng uses the 67’s negative feedback system, so it’s not actually meant to be a clone...
|
|
|
Post by hadaja on Aug 1, 2019 22:34:12 GMT -6
I have the gz67fet, warbler 1D and the km84 SDC version. After a while when you get better mics these sit here unused. Nothing bad about them but you sort of move on from them. Great mics though for the price.
|
|
|
Post by NoTomorrow on Aug 2, 2019 2:53:36 GMT -6
Hmmm.... I guess I need to try out some of these.... It appears they have a tube model the GZ67 tube. Has anyone ever tried the tube mic? I've never found any audio examples of them anywhere. I considered buying one a couple years back, but with no reviews of it, I was hesitant. And now here we are, with the 67 being the new mic that manufactures are attempting to clone. Though I don’t think Guosheng uses the 67’s negative feedback system, so it’s not actually meant to be a clone... Ok good to know they don't have the negative feedback system. I'm happy with my Stam 67 on that front. I listened to some of Ragan's clips and these 3U mics definitely sound good.... especially for the price. Kinda looking around for a 47 tube to buy later this year. I had to cancel my Heiserman 47 tube order because I had some family things come up. Looking forward to hearing that one against the Flea.
|
|
|
Post by standup on Aug 2, 2019 6:22:23 GMT -6
I also emailed Guosheng.
My pianist still has my Gefell, but when we're done I guess I'll recommend a MKIV or MKV (the dark, "ribbon"-ish one, but that might be too dark, so probably MKIV).
Edited to add: If anyone has actually used MKV, is it really ribbon-dark? What I'm looking for is more of a U89 profile.
Thanks for the assistance here.
|
|
|
Post by the other mark williams on Aug 2, 2019 13:36:11 GMT -6
I've never found any audio examples of them anywhere. I considered buying one a couple years back, but with no reviews of it, I was hesitant. And now here we are, with the 67 being the new mic that manufactures are attempting to clone. Though I don’t think Guosheng uses the 67’s negative feedback system, so it’s not actually meant to be a clone... Ok good to know they don't have the negative feedback system. I'm happy with my Stam 67 on that front. I listened to some of Ragan's clips and these 3U mics definitely sound good.... especially for the price. Kinda looking around for a 47 tube to buy later this year. I had to cancel my Heiserman 47 tube order because I had some family things come up. Looking forward to hearing that one against the Flea. my understanding is that Guosheng just tries to make a high quality capsule that has a flatter response, so the negative feedback circuit would be unneeded. I *believe* that’s what Barbaric does with their “67-ish” mic. Now, it seems to me the negative feedback circuit is part of the 67/269 sound, but I’ve heard great things about the Barbaric mic, so there are obviously a number of ways to get a good sound.
|
|
|
Post by hadaja on Aug 2, 2019 18:05:20 GMT -6
Here is just a bit of special info seeing how we have the popular 67 thread's going at the moment. I have the Warbler MK1D (U87 soundish) and the GZ67fet. I forgot to mention they actually are the made with the same capsule in both mics. When I was looking at these Gousheng explained it like this. "The Warbler MKID, GZ67fet and GZ67 tube mics have same capsules. The GZ67fet has more 3D depth and articulation than Warbler MKID. The GZ67 tube mic has more 3D depth and weight than GZ57fet." It seems to be an accurate description when comparing my MK1D with my GZ67fet. I did not get to use a GZ67 Tube.
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Aug 3, 2019 7:54:26 GMT -6
I've had a lot of experience with 3U. Are you still using the 3U CM100c mics Ragan? This clip sounded fantastic, but on their eBay site they don't have any available.
|
|
|
Post by ragan on Aug 3, 2019 10:02:32 GMT -6
I've had a lot of experience with 3U. Are you still using the 3U CM100c mics Ragan? This clip sounded fantastic, but on their eBay site they don't have any available. I still have them and use them sometimes, yep. They're solid mics. I probably reach for the Warbler 127s more often but I still like the CM100s. When I want a little cleaner, faster transient response, I grab the CM100s. More often than not these days when tracking acoustic guitar, I just use the 67, but sometimes I still use one of the SDCs. Sometimes the 67 and an SDC.
|
|
|
Post by matt@IAA on Aug 3, 2019 10:12:51 GMT -6
I have two MKID and four 127s. The 127s are great for overheads, percussion, and acoustics. Even make decent vocal mics.
|
|
|
Post by Bender on Aug 3, 2019 12:17:59 GMT -6
I have a pair of 127's with cardioid caps , not the flat cardioid, and they sound great for the price. Use em as overheads and on acoustic fairly regularly.
I also had an mk1d that was superb compared to warm and all those other "clones" but sold it to help fund an 87 when one came across my path that checked all the boxes.
|
|