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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2022 5:24:31 GMT -6
If you haven't heard it yourself, why take the energy to convince you to change your mind? If you're going down that path why say anything at all on here? It's all personal and subjective, most will demo / buy / keep / send it back / sell it. Reviews, comments, conversations or suggestions aren't required to do that and don't guarantee a thing. With that one sentence you've made this entire forum pointless, why take the energy to suggest anything? In the end you'll do what's right for you. Or maybe, just maybe a different train of thought might switch a light bulb on, or maybe not? Don't know if you don't try. Plus I personally like talking about music / equipment even if we don't agree on everything. A bit boring if everyone swooned over the same thing aye?
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Post by OtisGreying on Jan 11, 2022 5:26:27 GMT -6
Anyone know differences between RE-15 and RE-16? RE-15's seem to be way more expensive, but from what I've heard they're very similar, no?
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Post by sirthought on Jan 11, 2022 7:02:42 GMT -6
Anyone know differences between RE-15 and RE-16? RE-15's seem to be way more expensive, but from what I've heard they're very similar, no? the 16 has more foam in the head basket to act as a wind screen to fight plosives.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 11, 2022 7:54:23 GMT -6
Anyone know differences between RE-15 and RE-16? RE-15's seem to be way more expensive, but from what I've heard they're very similar, no? Sm57 sm58. Sorta. Just the wind protection.
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 11, 2022 8:50:41 GMT -6
Anyone know differences between RE-15 and RE-16? RE-15's seem to be way more expensive, but from what I've heard they're very similar, no? Sm57 sm58. Sorta. Just the wind protection. And pretty much the same with the RE10 and RE11, too, from my understanding. What's your opinion on that, Doug? How do your RE10s (I'm thinking of buying one from you) stack up to your RE16s?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 11, 2022 21:08:51 GMT -6
Sm57 sm58. Sorta. Just the wind protection. And pretty much the same with the RE10 and RE11, too, from my understanding. What's your opinion on that, Doug? How do your RE10s (I'm thinking of buying one from you) stack up to your RE16s? Extremely similar. Same vein as any 2 anything from different sources/eras, some diff but not much. Both my 16’s came from the same studio single owner who got them new, so they’re matched for life conditions and age. I haven’t had a 15 to compare against, or an 11.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 11, 2022 22:58:52 GMT -6
Nice complement to RE15/16 IMHO is the EV 635a. Cool for scratch vocals and sometimes the Keeper. Just did this practice vocal tonight below... Chris
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2022 9:28:41 GMT -6
Nice complement to RE15/16 IMHO is the EV 635a. Cool for scratch vocals and sometimes the Keeper. Just did this practice vocal tonight below... Chris I like your voice Chris but it sounds like you're trying eat the mic, skip breakfast?
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Post by chessparov on Jan 12, 2022 9:56:23 GMT -6
LOL! Thanks. I was trying to lessen bad room tone. Was only 2" away.
I think it might be OK in a mix though. Chris
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 15, 2022 14:56:32 GMT -6
My RE16 has been seeing at ton of use for vocals and guitar amps. Such an amazing mic. I just had a vocal session where the main vocal mic was an original 47 into my Coil 286. I had my RE16 right next to it with the capsules lined up, into the CA70. During one song, the producer, singer and assistant were all commenting on how amazing the 47 sounded and it turned out we'd been monitoring the RE16 for the entire take.
I also like the SM7 but the Re16 has been getting way more work lately for vocals. It just sounds finished. Definitely not super hifi but such a great midpush that helps it cut through a dense mix and still sound smooth.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 15, 2022 15:19:32 GMT -6
There's a 1990's Recording mag article about lesser known mics that compete, and the quote about the RE-15/16 was "U87A midrange".
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Post by the other mark williams on Jan 15, 2022 16:44:34 GMT -6
I’ve got an RE-11 that I really like - I totally agree on that “finished quality” sound.
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Post by nudwig on Jan 15, 2022 19:46:27 GMT -6
I also agree on the 'finished quality'. Love both my RE16 and 18. If anyone else needs to know I got clips for them at B&H.
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Post by bricejchandler on Jan 16, 2022 2:32:43 GMT -6
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 16, 2022 12:25:21 GMT -6
ND868 - my first "good" kick drum mic, haven't used it in years. Sort of natural sounding compared to more hyped kick mics. That's why it's one of my preferred kick mics for live use. Will do in a pinch in the studio as well...
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Post by Guitar on Jan 16, 2022 17:12:53 GMT -6
ND868 - my first "good" kick drum mic, haven't used it in years. Sort of natural sounding compared to more hyped kick mics. That's why it's one of my preferred kick mics for live use. Will do in a pinch in the studio as well... Yeah mine's up on the stand right now! Great mic!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 18, 2022 11:33:10 GMT -6
Guess you haven’t used an RE-15/16. Or maybe you haven’t found a plve where dynamics rule. Or maybe you’re not old enough to remember when the average local studios didn’t really have many/any condensers. I made rock records for years with nothing but dynamic mics. Yeah, i have a 67, a good 47 clone, a UMT70, a 414, a ton of nice ribbons. Vocals are their own thing, you never know what wins, and an RE-16 seems to eat an SM-7’s lunch any day of the week. Condensers are frequently a crapshoot on new singers, with lots of shit to tweak in post if you don’t pick the right one. These EV sound damn finished with no weird shit and take EQ great. Better off axis than many things. I’m using vocals cut in the room with loud drums! Doesn’t sound compromised! Forget that with any LDC I own, or an SM-7, or an RE-20. Guess you haven’t used an RE-15/16?: Hmm Nope.. Used an RE-20 though, are the really that much better than the 20 and MD-441? Or maybe you haven’t found a place where dynamics rule?: I'd never say they "rule" but effective tools in the right situation? Sure. I did begrudgingly buy quite a few for live engineering or dense tracks (usually metal) where you need something lower-fi and narrow to fit in a mix. Although my point is I used them out of necessity for the task at hand, if an arrangement or circumstance allowed for it I wouldn't go near one. Or maybe you’re not old enough to remember?: You're right, I only started recording at the beginning of the millennium but it's irrelevant. Maybe I need to try out an RE-15? IME all dynamics have "weird crap" that needs dialling out. The only dynamic I've ever taken a shine to is the MD-441U, it's boxy, lazy and still has pokey upper mids but at least it has some semblance of personality, width, dynamics and detail. However I have some sub $1K very modern SDC's or LDC's alongside some expensive stuff which does the job better so?!. If I need to control transients a decent opto will crush the life out of or mimic the "dynamic" sound if needed but at least I have the choice. Don't get me wrong in a less than ideal environment I'd always recommend something like an MD-441 over any mic, it's when my studio expanded and I had options galore the dynamics ended up in the mic locker collecting dust. Shadow, actually the age thing is kind of important on this one and let me explain why. When a bunch of us old farts were coming up in the age of tape and consoles the average studio probably had no more than 4 to 6 channels of dynamics, the combination of using a dynamic mic and tape was sort of a cheat to soften some transients. There was also a whole generation of broadcast and large scale live guys who came up not trusting phantom, t power,etc. So you saw a lot of dynamics. As well as in the 80s cheap condensers really sucked ( examples AKG C1000, c235, EV BK1). The emergence of decent sub $350 condensers is really a post 1995 thing.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 18, 2022 11:35:52 GMT -6
Yeah, you could expect the condenser you encountered to be a C1000!
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Post by EmRR on Jan 18, 2022 11:44:45 GMT -6
re: transients. Record we made with Mitch Easter 1990-91 at the Drive-In: an 1178, a 162, and (4) Allison Gain Brains. None of which were used in tracking. The condensers were KM84 OH's, that's it. They don't sound particularly great in that tiny space. MAYBE the 414 got used for vocal, but I think it was RE-16. Instruments are hot to tape, it doing a lot of limiting. Some evidence of 1178 on snare on a couple songs, for sustain. We all heard about Reflection having a bunch of 'those big German mics'.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 18, 2022 11:46:34 GMT -6
Yeah, you could expect the condenser you encountered to be a C1000! I can’t say this loud enough the 525 and the series that was below the c451 ( not the blue line) made the c1000 look good. The 525 was plastic and the other came with a non defeatable pink noise generator function, they were better as noise generators than mics. They had switches that everybody taped on and in order to use them you had to have a battery in the compartment even with phantom. DB sound had a bunch where rather than a bunch of impossible to find batteries some body had loaded them all with threaded rod cut to link.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 12:54:58 GMT -6
Shadow, actually the age thing is kind of important on this one and let me explain why. When a bunch of us old farts were coming up in the age of tape and consoles the average studio probably had no more than 4 to 6 channels of dynamics, the combination of using a dynamic mic and tape was sort of a cheat to soften some transients. There was also a whole generation of broadcast and large scale live guys who came up not trusting phantom, t power,etc. So you saw a lot of dynamics. As well as in the 80s cheap condensers really sucked ( examples AKG C1000, c235, EV BK1). The emergence of decent sub $350 condensers is really a post 1995 thing. Understood and thanks for explanation.. IME the rise of decent sub $1K condensers are a relatively new thing, back in my broke days I went through a lot of them like various SE's, 3U, lower end Mojave's, Samson Mic's, CAD, Shure, TLM's etc. and honestly some of them weren't half bad (at all) but some of them sucked.. However I still wouldn't have sold my top tier Neumann's for the good one's let's say. Although for the price difference you'd expect Neumann's etc. to be superior.. Today, hmm.. I keep coming across mic's that I actually prefer to classics or specific pricey mic's, I couldn't have said that even a decade and a bit ago. As Johnkenn said (I'm paraphrasing here): " Nothing is more frustrating than getting a project with a great vocal sound and its been made with an SE mic and a Focusrite interface". Anyway back on topic, I'm being a bit blunt as per usual. I did prefer the MD441 once EQ'd to the U89's on quite a few occasions so it's not like I outright hate dynamics or anything.. In a home recording scenario I've just found less and less uses for them.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 18, 2022 13:11:42 GMT -6
Shadow, actually the age thing is kind of important on this one and let me explain why. When a bunch of us old farts were coming up in the age of tape and consoles the average studio probably had no more than 4 to 6 channels of dynamics, the combination of using a dynamic mic and tape was sort of a cheat to soften some transients. There was also a whole generation of broadcast and large scale live guys who came up not trusting phantom, t power,etc. So you saw a lot of dynamics. As well as in the 80s cheap condensers really sucked ( examples AKG C1000, c235, EV BK1). The emergence of decent sub $350 condensers is really a post 1995 thing. Understood and thanks for explanation.. IME the rise of decent sub $1K condensers are a relatively new thing, back in my broke days I went through a lot of them like various SE's, 3U, lower end Mojave's, Samson Mic's, CAD, Shure, TLM's etc. and honestly some of them weren't half bad (at all) but some of them sucked.. However I still wouldn't have sold my top tier Neumann's for the good one's let's say. Although for the price difference you'd expect Neumann's etc. to be superior.. Today, hmm.. I keep coming across mic's that I actually prefer to classics or specific pricey mic's, I couldn't have said that even a decade and a bit ago. As Johnkenn said (I'm paraphrasing here): " Nothing is more frustrating than getting a project with a great vocal sound and its been made with an SE mic and a Focusrite interface". Anyway back on topic, I'm being a bit blunt as per usual. I did prefer the MD441 once EQ'd to the U89's on quite a few occasions so it's not like I outright hate dynamics or anything.. In a home recording scenario I've just found less and less uses for them. All good, my friend! I think the one thing that those of us who have been doing this for so long can often bring to those either younger or with less experience is bring historical perspective to some of thes discussions. If the younger generation can learn and understand why it was we approached many situations the way we did it can only lead to better production all around.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 14:59:27 GMT -6
All good, my friend! I think the one thing that those of us who have been doing this for so long can often bring to those either younger or with less experience is bring historical perspective to some of thes discussions. If the younger generation can learn and understand why it was we approached many situations the way we did it can only lead to better production all around. I've been doing this for 22 years and whilst I don't have anywhere near the wealth of different experience some vet's have on this board, I'm not new to it either. Reason why I said it's irrelevant in context is things have changed drastically over the last 30 years, music and technology are so different (for better or worse).. I've tried the tape machine / LFAC thing before, we had several at college and I eventually got a Studer / SSL 4K, it was cool in an I'm learning sort of way. However how is it relevant today? We do trust phantom power, hardly anyone uses tape (if they can find it), there's tons of cheap decent condensers, we don't worry about ridiculously high noise floors anymore, the list goes on.. Whilst tech has pretty much ruined the industry the actual recording paradigm has shifted. I'm not being argumentative here it's genuine curiosity in a pub talk / chatter way.. If some just likes dynamics, fair enough.. If you're chasing the vintage lo-fi sound, okay.. However some spend so much time obsessing about 2% and fidelity in general the use of dynamics unless the situation calls for it is a bit baffling to me. If that's the case, ITB vs. OTB should never be a discussion and high end vs. low end doesn't matter. Most prosumer audio equipment wipes the floor with $250,000 converters from the 80's.. Although if I start getting logical about this stuff we also obsess over equipment with 125dB's worth of dynamic range and 0.00001% THD then smother it in distortion and limit it into a square wave. What I've mainly got out of this is avoid logic where music's concerned.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 18, 2022 15:19:01 GMT -6
All good, my friend! I think the one thing that those of us who have been doing this for so long can often bring to those either younger or with less experience is bring historical perspective to some of thes discussions. If the younger generation can learn and understand why it was we approached many situations the way we did it can only lead to better production all around. I've been doing this for 22 years and whilst I don't have nowhere near the wealth of different experience some vet's have on this board, I'm not new to it either. Reason why I said it's irrelevant in context is things have changed drastically over the last 30 years, music and technology are so different (for better or worse).. I've tried the tape machine / LFAC thing before, we had several at college and I eventually got a Studer / SSL 4K, it was cool in an I'm learning sort of way. However how is it relevant today? We do trust phantom power, hardly anyone uses tape (if they can find it), there's tons of cheap decent condensers, we don't worry about ridiculously high noise floors anymore, the list goes on.. Whilst tech has pretty much ruined the industry the actual recording paradigm has shifted. I'm not being argumentative here it's genuine curiosity in a pub talk / chatter way.. If some just likes dynamics, fair enough.. If you're chasing the vintage lo-fi sound, okay.. However some spend so much time obsessing about 2% and fidelity in general the use of dynamics unless the situation calls for it is a bit baffling to me. If that's the case, ITB vs. OTB should never be a discussion and high end vs. low end doesn't matter. Most prosumer audio equipment wipes the floor with $250,000 converters from the 80's.. Although if I start getting logical about this stuff we also obsess over equipment with 125dB's worth of dynamic range and 0.00001% THD then smother it in distortion and limit it into a square wave. What I've mainly got out of this is avoid logic where music's concerned. It becomes relevant every time I walk into a church gig with the radar and find an old Spirit 😜. Seriously in the world of a do everything freelancer never enough Comps, so what the hell grab the EVs. I was sitting in the bar the other night talking to a producer when Fleetwood Mac dreams comes on and the guy gushing talking how it must have been a 47 or 87 on stevies vocals,, nope a good old EV RE/PL. guys jaw on the floor, so we talk some more about Stevie vocals, all our favorites are either from Keith Olson or Ken Callie, or the dance So EV or Beyer Dynamics, with her less honk and pinched nose sound. I do get it though I went all condenser around 91-93, in many ways more detail, but it wasn’t ever that warm and fuzzy. Then I started buying select dynamics ( at my worse my dynamic collection was the dynamic equivalent to Blackbirds condenser collection).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2022 15:36:57 GMT -6
It becomes relevant every time I walk into a church gig with the radar and find an old Spirit 😜. Seriously in the world of a do everything freelancer never enough Comps, so what the hell grab the EVs. I was sitting in the bar the other night talking to a producer when Fleetwood Mac dreams comes on and the guy gushing talking how it must have been a 47 or 87 on stevies vocals,, nope a good old EV RE/PL. guys jaw on the floor, so we talk some more about Stevie vocals, all our favorites are either from Keith Olson or Ken Callie, or the dance So EV or Beyer Dynamics, with her less honk and pinched nose sound. I do get it though I went all condenser around 91-93, in many ways more detail, but it wasn’t ever that warm and fuzzy. Then I started buying select dynamics ( at my worse my dynamic collection was the dynamic equivalent to Blackbirds condenser collection). Aye, in circumstances.. Like stop eating my mic, was that a growl or two litres of spit? No that KMS105 won't work with a guitarist trying to be louder than three drum kits and hey, where's my mic gone? I'm not going to use a U67 on a live gig, not even sure I'd trust Hetfield. I think you touched on something though, generations.. I like a lot of 60's / 70's and 80's music but production wise (especially the earlier stuff) in terms of fidelity I don't rate many of them. That's probably because I'm used to songs completely unglued that crush your skull with bass and have a sense of super eerie levels of clarity. It's "retro" music to me, sorry.. I'll get off your lawn.
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