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Post by johneppstein on Aug 26, 2019 14:17:21 GMT -6
Well, this would probably be good news if they still make the RE16, RE20, and 635A in the US. I haven't seen any indication of that, but I might have missed something. They've obviously moved (other) production to China because it's a LOT cheaper (which may be coming back to bite them in the current climate of tarriffs and trade wars); they also dropped prices on a lot of models and also slightly changed the model numbers of at least some of the mics made overseas. Sadly, in my somewhat limited experience with using a few of the Chinese versions in club PA applications, the quality appears to have take a BIG hit as well. When they were introduced the N/D series of vocal mics were about the only Neodymium live vocal mics that I actually liked - this is no longer really the case.
Why did they do this, besides the obvious? As I understand it, the ownership of EV changed hands again and the new management is obviously more interested in profits and boosting sales in the low end of the market than they are in manufacturing a quality product. It's pretty sad.
I don't understand why, if they wanted to continue any US production, they would want to move it from Buchanan Michigan. Michigan is such a depressed economy right now that they could probably manufacture products much more cheaply there than in most other parts of the US - moving makes no sense to me.
Yeah, I don't have time to investigate right now, but I think I read that the original Buchanan site was polluted. A trusted dealer told me in an email that EV still makes some of its mics in the USA. I'd LOVE it if someone did testing between old EV20s and the new ones, along with 635a and the RE16. It would be really great if they held up against the vintage ones. Here's a pic of a current RE20 Box with the manufacturing origin. "Made in the USA of Domestic and Foreign Content"? HMmmm.... I wonder what they mean by that?
I'd really like to see some comparisons between the old and new product as well.
EDIT: The box states that EV is a subsidiary of Telex Corp. Telex is no longer an independent company - it was acquired by Bosch in 2006 and is now a unit of Bosch Communications Systems, which is headquartered in Germany. This probably sheds some light on why most of EV's manufacturing was moved offshore to China.
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Post by chessparov on Aug 26, 2019 14:43:55 GMT -6
Sounds like a Bosch-ed job. Chris
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Post by Guitar on Aug 26, 2019 16:10:20 GMT -6
cool thanks for sharing that lpedrum
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Post by soundintheround on Aug 26, 2019 18:53:07 GMT -6
I do like EV mics generally, but I must be the only one who never liked the RE-20. Yours must have been broken. Rare, but it does occasionally happen. Funny you say that because I kinda have similar feelings about the re-20. It always has a weird top end to me that sounds hyped or phasey on things. Maybe ours are broken lol? I have one of the newer ones. It does sound decent on kick tho. Otherwise I love my RE-16s, 635a, 636, 664 and re-50. Had a 666 that was vibey but I think something wrong with the element.
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Post by johneppstein on Aug 27, 2019 5:22:25 GMT -6
Yours must have been broken. Rare, but it does occasionally happen. Funny you say that because I kinda have similar feelings about the re-20. It always has a weird top end to me that sounds hyped or phasey on things. Maybe ours are broken lol? I have one of the newer ones. It does sound decent on kick tho. Otherwise I love my RE-16s, 635a, 636, 664 and re-50. Had a 666 that was vibey but I think something wrong with the element. I don't know about newer ones - both of mine are fairly old. One problem that happens with old ones is that the internal foam degrades and must be replaced. At this time the mic often needs cleaning, as the degraded foam sheds crap all over the inside of the mic, which can cause problems.
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Post by Guitar on Aug 27, 2019 9:10:48 GMT -6
My old PL20 had a bit of a weird presence peak to it too. Most of the time it wasn't a problem. But with a certain singer, for example, I didn't like it.
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Post by hoopaz on Sept 5, 2019 23:33:43 GMT -6
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 12, 2019 14:31:37 GMT -6
I have: RE20 x 1 RE15 x 2 RE10 x 1 635a x 1 664 x 1 They're all useful and I'd like another RE20 as well as one or two more RE15s. Now, y'all stop talking about them, at least until I pick a few more up. It's common knowledge that the RE10 and RE15 use the same capsule (diaphragm). But opinions on if they sound the same depends on who you're talking to. Some say they're identical except the RE10s specs don't match perfectly enough to be teamed up as stereo pair. Others swear that the RE10s are inferior to the RE15 and don't sound as good. Since you own both what's your take on all that?
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Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2019 16:56:52 GMT -6
I have: RE20 x 1 RE15 x 2 RE10 x 1 635a x 1 664 x 1 They're all useful and I'd like another RE20 as well as one or two more RE15s. Now, y'all stop talking about them, at least until I pick a few more up. It's common knowledge that the RE10 and RE15 use the same capsule (diaphragm). But opinions on if they sound the same depends on who you're talking to. Some say they're identical except the RE10s specs don't match perfectly enough to be teamed up as stereo pair. Others swear that the RE10s are inferior to the RE15 and don't sound as good. Since you own both what's your take on all that? My opinion is that maybe the 15 sounds a little different than 10, but then one of my 15s sounds slightly different than my other 15, so I don't really let it concern me. I like how they ALL sound. I also don't really ever have need to use them as stereo pairs, nor do I think that's where they are best suited, so any subtle differences are a moot point in my book.
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Post by EmRR on Sept 12, 2019 17:28:28 GMT -6
It's common knowledge that the RE10 and RE15 use the same capsule (diaphragm). But opinions on if they sound the same depends on who you're talking to. Some say they're identical except the RE10s specs don't match perfectly enough to be teamed up as stereo pair. Others swear that the RE10s are inferior to the RE15 and don't sound as good. Since you own both what's your take on all that? The RE-10 I have does not sound nearly as good as the RE-16 pair I have, and they sound pretty close to one another. Expectation bias says if the 10 and 15 are the same, they should sound better than the 16 given the lesser close vocal protection. YMMV....
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Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2019 19:05:48 GMT -6
It's common knowledge that the RE10 and RE15 use the same capsule (diaphragm). But opinions on if they sound the same depends on who you're talking to. Some say they're identical except the RE10s specs don't match perfectly enough to be teamed up as stereo pair. Others swear that the RE10s are inferior to the RE15 and don't sound as good. Since you own both what's your take on all that? The RE-10 I have does not sound nearly as good as the RE-16 pair I have, and they sound pretty close to one another. Expectation bias says if the 10 and 15 are the same, they should sound better than the 16 given the lesser close vocal protection. YMMV.... I suppose it's possible that my RE10 is closer in tolerance to my RE15s than other RE10s. Maybe my RE10 was "just" outside the tolerance range for RE15s. Who knows. But, either way, I like them all. I suppose purchasing another RE10 might help test that theory. Though, I don't see RE10s come up for sale as often as RE15s, and the RE15s have kind of gotten stupid on price. So I'm not too keen to buy another to try that experiment. If we all stop talking about them, maybe they'll go back down in price... For know, I'll stick with what I've got, but I would like to own another couple of RE15s eventually.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 12, 2019 19:53:10 GMT -6
The RE-10 I have does not sound nearly as good as the RE-16 pair I have, and they sound pretty close to one another. Expectation bias says if the 10 and 15 are the same, they should sound better than the 16 given the lesser close vocal protection. YMMV.... I suppose it's possible that my RE10 is closer in tolerance to my RE15s than other RE10s. Maybe my RE10 was "just" outside the tolerance range for RE15s. Who knows. But, either way, I like them all. I suppose purchasing another RE10 might help test that theory. Though, I don't see RE10s come up for sale as often as RE15s, and the RE15s have kind of gotten stupid on price. So I'm not too keen to buy another to try that experiment. If we all stop talking about them, maybe they'll go back down in price... For know, I'll stick with what I've got, but I would like to own another couple of RE15s eventually. Why not NOW?
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Post by drbill on Sept 12, 2019 20:00:05 GMT -6
My last RE15 cost me $287 with free shipping. Super clean for a 50 year old mic - late 60's. I named it "Jim" after this thread.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 12, 2019 20:22:22 GMT -6
My last RE15 cost me $287 with free shipping. That's a fair deal these days. Some of the ones I've looked at recently on ebay seemed like someone tried gardening with it--pretty funky and beat up! Seriously though, regarding rising vintage prices I don't think EV RE mics are for everyone. They don't sound "modern" yet they're not retro in that phat ribbon type way. And they are NOT an answer to digititus. I like them but my guess is that many would choose something else.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 12, 2019 20:57:49 GMT -6
I used to pick them up, around 15 years ago... For about $40 usually. Chris
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Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2019 21:27:20 GMT -6
My last RE15 cost me $287 with free shipping. That's a fair deal these days. Some of the ones I've looked at recently on ebay seemed like someone tried gardening with it--pretty funky and beat up! Seriously though, regarding rising vintage prices I don't think EV RE mics are for everyone. They don't sound "modern" yet they're not retro in that phat ribbon type way. And they are NOT an answer to digititus. I like them but my guess is that many would choose something else. But that's why I like them. They just do what they do, and they are GREAT in their off axis response, or lack thereof. Plus, they take eq as well as anything due to their off axis response. You can really mold some drums with them. Point them in front of a source, and you get a good sound without a bunch of off axis hash. I really like them as spot mics on drums. Add a Kush Electra after that, and you can kinda make them be whatever you want them to be. Shit, now we're talking about them again....
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Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2019 21:37:57 GMT -6
I suppose it's possible that my RE10 is closer in tolerance to my RE15s than other RE10s. Maybe my RE10 was "just" outside the tolerance range for RE15s. Who knows. But, either way, I like them all. I suppose purchasing another RE10 might help test that theory. Though, I don't see RE10s come up for sale as often as RE15s, and the RE15s have kind of gotten stupid on price. So I'm not too keen to buy another to try that experiment. If we all stop talking about them, maybe they'll go back down in price... For know, I'll stick with what I've got, but I would like to own another couple of RE15s eventually. Why not NOW? Why? Are you selling one for a reasonable price that doesn't look like it was used to clean out a garbage disposal?
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 12, 2019 22:03:04 GMT -6
Why? Are you selling one for a reasonable price that doesn't look like it was used to clean out a garbage disposal? No. Click on the NOW of my previous post. Thought you might get a kick out of it.
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 12, 2019 22:08:50 GMT -6
That's a fair deal these days. Some of the ones I've looked at recently on ebay seemed like someone tried gardening with it--pretty funky and beat up! Seriously though, regarding rising vintage prices I don't think EV RE mics are for everyone. They don't sound "modern" yet they're not retro in that phat ribbon type way. And they are NOT an answer to digititus. I like them but my guess is that many would choose something else. But that's why I like them. They just do what they do, and they are GREAT in their off axis response, or lack thereof. Plus, they take eq as well as anything due to their off axis response. You can really mold some drums with them. Point them in front of a source, and you get a good sound without a bunch of off axis hash. I really like them as spot mics on drums. Add a Kush Electra after that, and you can kinda make them be whatever you want them to be. Shit, now we're talking about them again.... Don't disagree. But I think that many going for a more "current" sound would pass on the RE mics. Especially if they're hooked on proximity--it may feel neutered to be robbed of it.
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Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2019 22:33:03 GMT -6
Why? Are you selling one for a reasonable price that doesn't look like it was used to clean out a garbage disposal? No. Click on the NOW of my previous post. Thought you might get a kick out of it. Ok. I just did. NOW is see what you were getting at. Yeah, that's a stupid price. You know what I want? Somebody to produce a modern day equivalent to the RE15. Why would that be so hard? Why is a dynamic mic with, similar pickup characteristics as the old RE series, something that nobody produces anymore? Everybody is cloning the shit out of everything else. Why not a dynamic mic that does the same job?
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Post by Quint on Sept 12, 2019 22:41:57 GMT -6
But that's why I like them. They just do what they do, and they are GREAT in their off axis response, or lack thereof. Plus, they take eq as well as anything due to their off axis response. You can really mold some drums with them. Point them in front of a source, and you get a good sound without a bunch of off axis hash. I really like them as spot mics on drums. Add a Kush Electra after that, and you can kinda make them be whatever you want them to be. Shit, now we're talking about them again.... Don't disagree. But I think that many going for a more "current" sound would pass on the RE mics. Especially if they're hooked on proximity--it may feel neutered to be robbed of it. I get that it may not be a "modern" sound, but that mentality is also informed by a lot of people who think that mics are supposed to provide proximity effect, by default. What IF, you could use mics on drums that didn't automatically have proximity effect AND you then used EQs with low phase shift, like the Electra, to shape those mics to be whatever you want them to be? Add in whatever bass bump you want, but at the actual frequency you want? Plus, you get to place those mics wherever they sound best instead of worrying about proximity effect?
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Sept 13, 2019 12:38:46 GMT -6
Something to watch out for is that if any of these EV mikes has ever been dropped on their nose, the highs go away. As was said above, the cheap versions had capsules that measured outside the tolerance spec. If it sounds way worse, it probably had been dropped.
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Post by chessparov on Sept 13, 2019 17:27:26 GMT -6
That's why I like how Beyer made the M88 TG. Chris
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Post by lpedrum on Sept 13, 2019 23:41:03 GMT -6
Something to watch out for is that if any of these EV mikes has ever been dropped on their nose, the highs go away. As was said above, the cheap versions had capsules that measured outside the tolerance spec. If it sounds way worse, it probably had been dropped. Another reason maybe not to spend too much on eBay on an RE15. Unless I could return it I’d rather buy a new RE16.
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Post by Guitar on Sept 17, 2019 22:33:37 GMT -6
have I already mentioned that RE11 is my secret drum room mic? along with an MXL R80 in mid/side.
a pair of 635A are my previous secret drum room mics in spaced pair.
635A are still cheap? I have no idea. Great on vocals and acoustic guitar too.
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