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Post by christopher on May 15, 2019 12:46:52 GMT -6
Sorry about the title, (no not my project), just curious what your thoughts are as an engineer.
This is brand spanking new Mac Demarco. I have a free ticket to see him this Saturday at Bill Graham, so I decided to check this out. The album is on amazon prime, been listening and have many thoughts.
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Post by svart on May 15, 2019 13:47:28 GMT -6
As an engineer? Not sure I like the mix, a little stuffy and pinched in the mids to me. I'd think the sparseness of the track would ask for more room and less in-your-faceness.
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2019 9:46:03 GMT -6
Yeah, that's what makes it weird, but also kinda familiar. Its been a strange experience listening to this. I think you helped me figure it out, vintage (consumer?) mid-forward thing but modern at the same time? When I put a giant smiley face EQ over it, ok... this makes sense. I think the cover art is an EQ suggestion
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Post by MorEQsThanAnswers on May 17, 2019 15:05:38 GMT -6
Don't want to call it "bad" cuz I think its a better "technical" mix than I would have achieved, but it is a little in my face. Keeps me from melting into the vibe. I'm hearing "standardized modern decisions" made on a vintage-style production.
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Post by donr on May 19, 2019 16:22:58 GMT -6
These two Mac DeMarco tunes don't sound like that. They sound like you'd expect.
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Post by johneppstein on May 19, 2019 20:32:28 GMT -6
Sorry about the title, (no not my project), just curious what your thoughts are as an engineer. This is brand spanking new Mac Demarco. I have a free ticket to see him this Saturday at Bill Graham, so I decided to check this out. The album is on amazon prime, been listening and have many thoughts. Meh.
Are they playing at Bill Graham in SF?
Why?
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Post by Guitar on May 21, 2019 14:02:18 GMT -6
Maybe I'm the least picky engineer in the world but this sounds fine to me. I've been listening to a lot of Captain Beefheart this week and it puts me in that general zone. I love that kind of punchy, raw but phat sound. I just started using condenser mics on my guitar amps as a regular thing and it's a big deal for me going forward. You can't fake it with an SM57.
I'm pretty firmly not a Mac fan but his production is usually quite good.
To put it another way, I'm usually more impressed with the production than I am with the music itself.
So if I'm going to criticize something it's the lack of memorable or effective lyrics or singing. When I listen I'm mentally tuning out the lead vocal and that's not a good thing.
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Post by donr on May 21, 2019 21:53:47 GMT -6
monkeyxx, my fav Beefheart is "ZigZag Wanderer" from "Safe as Milk," and "Trout Mask Replica" from the Zappa era.
I'd never heard of Mac DeMarco, and I think he's kinda interesting, but that track christopher posted was to his point, not-so-much audio wise, IMO.
I'm trying to think of any purposely lo-fi track I really dig. Can't.
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Post by Guitar on May 30, 2019 11:56:33 GMT -6
monkeyxx, my fav Beefheart is "ZigZag Wanderer" from "Safe as Milk," and "Trout Mask Replica" from the Zappa era. I'd never heard of Mac DeMarco, and I think he's kinda interesting, but that track christopher posted was to his point, not-so-much audio wise, IMO. I'm trying to think of any purposely lo-fi track I really dig. Can't. Hi Don, I should call you an van vliet "The Two Dons" it has kind of a gangster sounding vibe. Trout Mask is absolute holy grail stuff for me. Kind of mind expanding for me and it never seems to get tired. There's just so much to chew on. I agree about "Zig Zag Wanderer" almost has a beatlesy groove to it. There's a lot of sleepers on those first few albums.
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Post by chessparov on May 30, 2019 17:26:13 GMT -6
I always liked the lo-fi garage rock style, for psychedelic records. Like on the Classic Rhino "Nuggets" compilations.
Big influence too, on some of the Punk Bands IMHO. Both sides of the Pond. Chris
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Post by donr on May 31, 2019 0:32:15 GMT -6
I always liked the lo-fi garage rock style, for psychedelic records. Like on the Classic Rhino "Nuggets" compilations. Big influence too, on some of the Punk Bands IMHO. Both sides of the Pond. Chris Agreed. But I can't think of any modern recordings that purposely sound crappy that grab me like vintage lo-fidelity but great music recordings do. I'm an old guy, and one of the first recordings I heard that grabbed me, for the beautifully warm (if not extended) bass was, "Wooly Bully" by Sam The Sham (And the Pharohs.) To my ear now many decades later, (and I'm imagining, not knowing,) someone mastered that single with a big helping of Pultec 100 Hz on the way to the disk cutter. And it soaked the bass and the bottom of the combo organ, while retaining the clarity of the vocal. Or maybe the studio did the magic. (The mastering guy's job was first to keep the stylus from jumping the groove!) The 45 just sounded hypnotic to this 13 yr old on my dad's mono hifi with a Wharfdale two-way 12" woofer speaker. Each record sounded so different in those days, especially the odd one-hit wonder. One big attraction of the '60's British Invasion in retrospect, the English recording studios made records that sounded much different than the NY and LA studios did. To my young ear, it was less hi-fi than the best American recordings, but ballsier. I actually had the thought sometime not too much much later, did English studios then EQ pop records for crappier consumer record players than American studios did? One of my favorite crappy recordings is the Seed's "Pushin' Too Hard." Awesome, can't get enough of it. Also, The Five Du-Tones' "Shake A Tailfeather" was early Motown, but totally awesome. When truly full range playback and CD's came in, I realized that one reason the bass was rolled off on "Tailfeather" is the low E string on the bass is noticeably flat on that recording. There was hardly any bottom on that record when you heard it on the radio. You heard the bass line melody but not the bottom, and the drums almost sounded like paper. Didn't matter, the song and energy were infectious. It didn't diminish my enjoyment of the song at all to hear the bass decades later and find out. The out-of-tune-ness just hits me like a doc's red mallet to the funny bone. Every time. Geez, I hope young people get to enjoy the rub of less-than-equal temperament tuning we're all resigned to in modern pop music. Instrument and vocal tuning is a big color on the artist's pallet.
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Post by chessparov on May 31, 2019 1:25:54 GMT -6
I love the Moody Blues records, particularly the first "Classic Seven" albums. But I still have a soft spot for "Go Now".
Even though the flute solo on "California Dreaming", is slighty flat-Or the trumpet on the outro on Percy's "When A Man Loves A Woman" is slighty sharp... Just two more examples of absolute sonic magic for me growing up-well maybe I never quite did!
BTW great post Don. Chris
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Post by mike on May 31, 2019 7:28:04 GMT -6
Each record sounded so different in those days,
This is what I miss the most, and why I can't listen to most format radio for very long these days.
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Post by christopher on Jun 18, 2019 12:40:41 GMT -6
Just to revisit: I missed the show, long story.. oh well. Since I ended up buying the tickets, it came with the physical CD. How cool is that?! “Who cares about a CD?” I thought.. “it’s on amazon prime and that’s roughly CD quality isn’t it?” I had the CD in my car for weeks before I finally took the plastic off and put it in the player. To my shock this album immediately made sense! “How could this be? How could this album make no sense, but now it makes sense?” You ask... The answer: CDs still sound WAY better than streaming The top end is all open and smooth, perfectly balanced, not choked and midrange focused. The vocals you hear all the intimate little mouth noises that aren’t heard streaming. Drums you hear the little articulate details not there streaming I even A/B’d the song ‘Nobody’ and on streaming the highs sound rolled off so much I can’t even make out a hi hat. But the CD version the hihat is clearly very softly tapped, and the whole top end of the album is open like it’s extending over a long horizon. So.. yeah. CD still sounds better in this case. Not sure if it’s: different masters, Bluetooth bottlenecks, streaming bottlenecks, CD player chips, receiver DSP, iPhone DSP.. so many places to rule out. But the CD works. That’s all.
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Post by christopher on Jun 18, 2019 12:47:16 GMT -6
Sorry about the title, (no not my project), just curious what your thoughts are as an engineer. This is brand spanking new Mac Demarco. I have a free ticket to see him this Saturday at Bill Graham, so I decided to check this out. The album is on amazon prime, been listening and have many thoughts. Meh.
Are they playing at Bill Graham in SF?
Why?
He’s an entertainer, and he built a following. Here’s a video he’s in for another band
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Post by Guitar on Jun 18, 2019 14:56:33 GMT -6
Just to revisit: I missed the show, long story.. oh well. Since I ended up buying the tickets, it came with the physical CD. How cool is that?! “Who cares about a CD?” I thought.. “it’s on amazon prime and that’s roughly CD quality isn’t it?” I had the CD in my car for weeks before I finally took the plastic off and put it in the player. To my shock this album immediately made sense! “How could this be? How could this album make no sense, but now it makes sense?” You ask... The answer: CDs still sound WAY better than streaming The top end is all open and smooth, perfectly balanced, not choked and midrange focused. The vocals you hear all the intimate little mouth noises that aren’t heard streaming. Drums you hear the little articulate details not there streaming I even A/B’d the song ‘Nobody’ and on streaming the highs sound rolled off so much I can’t even make out a hi hat. But the CD version the hihat is clearly very softly tapped, and the whole top end of the album is open like it’s extending over a long horizon. So.. yeah. CD still sounds better in this case. Not sure if it’s: different masters, Bluetooth bottlenecks, streaming bottlenecks, CD player chips, receiver DSP, iPhone DSP.. so many places to rule out. But the CD works. That’s all. It's kind of funny when people say "CDs are dead." Yeah. So are vinyl records and cassettes. Yet people are using and selling them by the tens of thousands. Streaming is the black plague of modern music, the Chairman Mao of the music business. It sounds like shit and they're robbing artists of their livelihood, literally. So yeah I proudly keep a CD collection in my truck and it sounds just as good as it did 10 years ago.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 18, 2019 17:25:20 GMT -6
Meh.
Are they playing at Bill Graham in SF?
Why?
He’s an entertainer, and he built a following. Here’s a video he’s in for another band I am profoundly NOT entertained. I made it halfway through hoping it would get better, but no.
Was that supposed to be some sort of satire of Trump? Or was the hair just a coincidence?
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Post by m03 on Jun 19, 2019 10:08:23 GMT -6
Was that supposed to be some sort of satire of Trump? Or was the hair just a coincidence?
I think it was meant to resemble Jerry Springer, circa mid-1990s.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 19, 2019 11:31:21 GMT -6
Was that supposed to be some sort of satire of Trump? Or was the hair just a coincidence?
I think it was meant to resemble Jerry Springer, circa mid-1990s. Not much difference.
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Post by m03 on Jun 19, 2019 11:34:04 GMT -6
I think it was meant to resemble Jerry Springer, circa mid-1990s. Not much difference. I disagree, Springer's hair looks much bett....oh, I see what you did there.
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Post by chessparov on Jun 20, 2019 15:56:29 GMT -6
Here we go again, splitting hairs! Chris
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Post by donr on Jun 20, 2019 18:26:51 GMT -6
I love the Moody Blues records, particularly the first "Classic Seven" albums. But I still have a soft spot for "Go Now". Even though the flute solo on "California Dreaming", is slighty flat-Or the trumpet on the outro on Percy's "When A Man Loves A Woman" is slighty sharp... Just two more examples of absolute sonic magic for me growing up-well maybe I never quite did! BTW great post Don. Chris You're right about the flute on "California Dreaming." I imagine everyone was stoned when that was overdubbed.
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