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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 13, 2019 16:59:37 GMT -6
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 13, 2019 20:52:51 GMT -6
Yeah, but since The me too movement started I have been wondering
when somebody in the music industry would be outed.
The 14 year old did bring a new level of sleazy to the party though.
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Post by yotonic on Feb 13, 2019 21:44:04 GMT -6
A recovering heroin junkie, male, rockstar is manipulative and tries to get women to have sex with him.... LOCK HIM UP. That is terrible behavior. No man should ever use his money, fame, intelligence or anything else he has going for him to try and get laid, that is just wrong. WTF?  Every single woman in America knows what's up when they start chasing fame and money in a man. Give me a GD break. Leave. Stop pursuing the male celebrity if you don't want to deal with his overtures. These women are way out of bounds. This isn't a guy they met at school. I guess next time I go to a topless bar I will report the women there for trying to pressure me out of my money. a lot of the MeToo movement is well founded, this is straight up ridiculous. If you don't like a controlling man or a controlling woman don't go there, don't pursue a relationship with them. Take some responsibility for the situations you put yourself in and knowingly initiate. Crap like this will hurt women who are victims of actual crimes. (If he crossed the line with a minor, which is a different topic than the headline...then he is an idiot and a criminal). But women who flocked to him to become discovered or famous themselves, were using him for his celebrity and he was using them for their looks. There is no confusion there ever when it comes to this age old tripe. Any woman who chases a rock star/Producer so that "they can be discovered" knows exactly what shortcut they are trying to take. And when it doesn't work out, as it rarely does, they go crying. MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN. Mandy Moore and all the rest of these women never had a chance in hell of making it on talent and they knew it. So they tried to cheat and use their looks to hook up with a powerful older man. They get what they deserve when they take the Bimbo route that everyone in America knows. I don't see Margo Price doing that... |
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Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2019 21:57:09 GMT -6
A recovering heroin junkie, male, rockstar is manipulative and tries to get women to have sex with him.... LOCK HIM UP. That is terrible behavior. No man should ever use his money, fame, intelligence or anything else he has going for him to try and get laid, that is just wrong. WTF? Every single woman in America knows what's up when they start chasing fame and money in a man. Give me a GD break. Leave. Stop pursuing the male celebrity if you don't want to deal with his overtures. These women are way out of bounds. This isn't a guy they met at school. I guess next time I go to a topless bar I will report the women there for trying to pressure me out of my money. a lot of the MeToo movement is well founded, this is straight up ridiculous. If you don't like a controlling man or a controlling woman don't go there, don't pursue a relationship with them. Take some responsibility for the situations you put yourself in and knowingly initiate. Crap like this will hurt women who are victims of actual crimes. (If he crossed the line with a minor, which is a different topic than the headline...then he is an idiot and a criminal). But women who flocked to him to become discovered or famous themselves, were using him for his celebrity and he was using them for their looks. There is no confusion there ever when it comes to this age old tripe. Yeah, you're right. A 14-year old girl who's just lost her dad and who suddenly has the adoring attention of an older male hero that everyone thinks is cool as shit should really be the mature one here and show some emotional intelligence. The hell is wrong with her, right? FFS. I will never understand the fucking victim blaming. Anything to avoid accountability for the dude, is it? |
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Post by yotonic on Feb 13, 2019 22:05:21 GMT -6
That's a whole different issue, and as I said criminal. The initial stories that came out didn't talk about the minor child. That is straight up grooming and sex abuse. My comments were aimed at the Mandy Moores and grown women who are surprised when they pursue some guy to "help them" that he might have an agenda of his own. Give me a break. Do you do that with female Producers or Artists? When you are an Artist you know pretty early on where you sit... much like sports. All you have to do is look around and listen to your friends and family and your work to see where you fit in. But there are legions of fame hungry men & women today who will do anything to cheat reality. I often see women trying to use their sexuality to get opportunities in the music business that their talent doesn't deserve. That is not victim blaming.
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Post by ragan on Feb 13, 2019 22:16:39 GMT -6
That's a whole different issue, and as I said criminal. The initial stories that came out didn't talk about the minor child. That is straight up grooming and sex abuse. My comments were aimed at the Mandy Moores and grown women who are surprised when they pursue some guy to "help them" that he might have an agenda of his own. Give me a break. Do you do that with female Producers or Artists? When you are an Artist you know pretty early on where you sit... much like sports. All you have to do is look around and listen to your friends and family and your work to see where you fit in. But there are legions of fame hungry men & women today who will do anything to cheat reality. I often see women trying to use their sexuality to get opportunities in the music business that their talent doesn't deserve. Ok. I just read the linked article right above your post and then saw your response so I (naturally) figured you had read that article, which is primarily about the 14 year old girl. I agree that it's a different situation when it's a grown adult being taken advantage of. But even when the target is an adult, it's no less sleazy of these dudes to use their clout to try and manipulate women into sexual servitude, torpedoing their careers if the women stand up for themselves. It's a problem and it's about damn time some of these dudes faced some actual consequences. I could care less about the broad fragility of male ego and entitlement. Fuck these guys. |
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Post by yotonic on Feb 13, 2019 22:30:58 GMT -6
Maybe I'm putting the lens of my own experience over it... But I can't count the number of times I have seen a female artist with little or no talent aggressively pursue an older scumbag guy in the music business to try and get "famous" because her talent isn't enough to do it. It's pretty common knowledge that Ryan Adams is a bit of a scumbag, certainly in music circles. And everyone in LA knew why Mandy Moore married him.... how's her music career? The other thing I see all of the time is hot married women or single women hounding famous artists backstage, or at events. Acting completely inappropriately, throwing themselves at a guy with unbridled sexual innuendo and physical advances, and when 30 minutes later he makes a pass that is too forward or crude they call him a scumbag...LOL In my mind they are both scumbags. Perhaps this Ryan Adams case is something entirely different and he's just a a run of the mill scumbag trying to entrap women who wouldn't otherwise give him the time of day. But that certainly wouldn't surprise me.....
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 14, 2019 5:47:17 GMT -6
Maybe I'm putting the lens of my own experience over it... But I can't count the number of times I have seen a female artist with little or no talent aggressively pursue an older scumbag guy in the music business to try and get "famous" because her talent isn't enough to do it. It's pretty common knowledge that Ryan Adams is a bit of a scumbag, certainly in music circles. And everyone in LA knew why Mandy Moore married him.... how's her music career? The other thing I see all of the time is hot married women or single women hounding famous artists backstage, or at events. Acting completely inappropriately, throwing themselves at a guy with unbridled sexual innuendo and physical advances, and when 30 minutes later he makes a pass that is too forward or crude they call him a scumbag...LOL In my mind they are both scumbags. Perhaps this Ryan Adams case is something entirely different and he's just a a run of the mill scumbag trying to entrap women who wouldn't otherwise give him the time of day. But that certainly wouldn't surprise me..... |
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Post by yotonic on Feb 14, 2019 10:39:54 GMT -6
It sounds like Ryan Adams is a manic, controlling, vindictive kind of guy. I know a few men and women like him. Stay away. But I'm not sure why it's front page news that some guy is a scumbag using his fame to try and get laid. Most people, men and women alike are well aware of this pitfall, especially in Showbiz that field where Americans seem willing to carve their faces up and sleep with anyone to succeed in it.
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Post by ericn on Feb 14, 2019 10:46:02 GMT -6
A recovering heroin junkie, male, rockstar is manipulative and tries to get women to have sex with him.... LOCK HIM UP. That is terrible behavior. No man should ever use his money, fame, intelligence or anything else he has going for him to try and get laid, that is just wrong. WTF? Every single woman in America knows what's up when they start chasing fame and money in a man. Give me a GD break. Leave. Stop pursuing the male celebrity if you don't want to deal with his overtures. These women are way out of bounds. This isn't a guy they met at school. I guess next time I go to a topless bar I will report the women there for trying to pressure me out of my money. a lot of the MeToo movement is well founded, this is straight up ridiculous. If you don't like a controlling man or a controlling woman don't go there, don't pursue a relationship with them. Take some responsibility for the situations you put yourself in and knowingly initiate. Crap like this will hurt women who are victims of actual crimes. (If he crossed the line with a minor, which is a different topic than the headline...then he is an idiot and a criminal). But women who flocked to him to become discovered or famous themselves, were using him for his celebrity and he was using them for their looks. There is no confusion there ever when it comes to this age old tripe. Any woman who chases a rock star/Producer so that "they can be discovered" knows exactly what shortcut they are trying to take. And when it doesn't work out, as it rarely does, they go crying. MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN. Mandy Moore and all the rest of these women never had a chance in hell of making it on talent and they knew it. So they tried to cheat and use their looks to hook up with a powerful older man. They get what they deserve when they take the Bimbo route that everyone in America knows. I don't see Margo Price doing that... I’m not a fan, Hell her cover of John Hiatts Have a Little Faith in Me is probably the all time worst covers of all time BUT Mandy Moore has album sales of over 10 million. |
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Post by iamasound on Feb 14, 2019 23:32:43 GMT -6
Funny, I never ever listened to Ryan Adams until this week and really have enjoyed his album called Gold from I think 2001, the songs and especially the sonic quality of that work. Now I find that he is kind of a dick and won't probably enjoy it in the same way. Many times I find it hard to separate the artist from the art.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 1:09:32 GMT -6
And all this time I thought we were discussing Bryan Adams!!!  |
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Post by pouletdegrains on Feb 15, 2019 8:18:36 GMT -6
Ryan Adams' complex personality is well presented in "Meet Me In The Bathroom", a book written by Lizzy Goodman on the resurgence of the rock scene in New York in the 2000s. Starring the Strokes, Interpol, LCD Soundsystem, Yeah Yeah Yeahs... and a young Ryan Adams freshly arrived from North Carolina. Described as extremely talented (the book is a compilation of interviews), he is presented as a troubled soul: drug abuse, dubious love affairs, weird social behavior,...
IMHO really worth a read, for the creativity of the scene (its influence is still there nowadays) and the description of the post 90s New York.
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Post by Ward on Feb 19, 2019 6:51:29 GMT -6
Remember kids . . .
All men are villains, all women are victims.
All villains are men, all victims are women.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 19, 2019 11:08:42 GMT -6
Remember kids . . . All men are villains, all women are victims. All villains are men, all victims are women. Rule number 2 of life: Don’t put your self in a room alone with somebody you don’t reall know, you may think you know someone through their art / performance but you don’t it’s an act. Have your kids listen to Springsteen on Broadway just to hear him explain it’s all a story! |
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Post by jeremygillespie on Feb 19, 2019 21:14:10 GMT -6
If you hung in the Villiage in the 2000’s none of this is at all shocking. Dude needs some serious help - I thought he had gotten it years ago when he cleaned up his act. I guess not...
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Post by ragan on Feb 19, 2019 21:31:45 GMT -6
Remember kids . . . All men are villains, all women are victims. All villains are men, all victims are women. Remember kids...if the facts of the matter don't suit your pre-fab narrative, pretend it's all just an anti-man conspiracy. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2019 7:05:42 GMT -6
Remember kids . . . All men are villains, all women are victims. All villains are men, all victims are women. Remember kids...if the facts of the matter don't suit your pre-fab narrative, pretend it's all just an anti-man conspiracy.
True... the Jussie Smollett hoax claim was being called a conspiracy by the msm a few days back after 100's of hours of guilty airtime. Certainly didn't fit their narrative.
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Post by ragan on Feb 20, 2019 10:09:22 GMT -6
Remember kids...if the facts of the matter don't suit your pre-fab narrative, pretend it's all just an anti-man conspiracy.
True... the Jussie Smollett hoax claim was being called a conspiracy by the msm a few days back after 100's of hours of guilty airtime. Certainly didn't fit their narrative.
Yeah I don't get the pearl-clutching about the Smollett story. Dude's in the hospital and there's a police report so...that's the story. What's a reporter supposed to do? Guess that he's lying? Days later when the cops come out and say, "We think he's lying"...well...now that's the story. I never got the canned outrage over the coverage. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Feb 20, 2019 22:09:19 GMT -6
I think we all project our personal experiences on to people in Ryan Adam's situation. Young women intent on breaking into the music business encounter sexual advances all the time. Many times it's not a sleazy thing, just the way it is. Adam's position is one where he'll get hit on 100 X a day by women interested in him. It's not possible to ignore all of that. I don't see these women as victims, just young and learning the hard way. Adams may very well have had good intentions and it just didn't work out. He probably acted like a prick, but it's not a crime.
Now, if he knowingly baited that very young girl, he's dead wrong and needs to be taken to task for it. But, if she pretended to be older and looked the part, well Adams is guilty of manipulation and bad judgement, but not necessarily a crime. No one here was forced to do anything they didn't want to do. Still, I see Adam's work differently now, and I've been a fan.
I was thinking about this, so, a busy successful guy works X amount of hours a day, eats, sleeps, and maybe spends a couple of hours a week going out to be entertained. Now, being single, with the amount of time he has, there's the fact he likes women and will want to be with women physically. A young talented woman wants to get to meet and perhaps work with him. With the small amount of time left for personal things, it's highly unlikely he'd spend lots of time with a woman he wasn't interested in, it's only natural.
So I don't blame him for seeing as many women as he likes. Now, if he was mean and controlling and manipulative, that makes him a prick, but what those women call manipulation may not necessarily have been that. They probably have no clue how heavy the pressures on a guy like Adams can be. I've heard people complain about a job, with no consciousness about all their employer deals with. City and state and federal taxes, tricky labor laws, unemployment payments, liability insurance, health insurance, money to pay for gas and lights, rent, equipment and employees, etc.
I think much of what's happened here is a bunch of disappointed women can get some revenge and do damage to his career by speaking out about what was perhaps a disappointing situation, and maybe it wasn't even that, but it's certainly no crime and no serious harm came to them.
Please don't interpret this as me making excuses for myself. I've treated women I've been with respectfully, even when a relationship didn't move forward. Many of them are still friends of mine.
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Post by geoff738 on Mar 2, 2019 20:16:38 GMT -6
Ok, but Adams was apparently asking at least some of the women to come up to his hotel room and opening the door naked. In a corporate environment that clearly crosses the line to sexual harassment. Do that and you’re gone.
And really, who wants to see Adams nude. Eewwww.
Cheers,
Geoff
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 2, 2019 22:23:07 GMT -6
I understand that might be odd and upsetting in many or most circumstances, but it depends on what the situations were. If it was someone he'd been with before, or if it was clear there was sex involved, etc.. It doesn't sound cool to me either, but you'd have to know the details to make any kind of judgement.
And going to the hotel room of a Rock star isn't exactly a corporate environment. Not that it's an excuse to be creepy.
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Post by geoff738 on Mar 2, 2019 22:36:19 GMT -6
I understand that might be odd and upsetting in many or most circumstances, but it depends on what the situations were. If it was someone he'd been with before, or if it was clear there was sex involved, etc.. It doesn't sound cool to me either, but you'd have to know the details to make any kind of judgement. And going to the hotel room of a Rock star isn't exactly a corporate environment. Not that it's an excuse to be creepy. Agreed, but it doesn’t sound like it was exactly expected. Now, I don’t think any of the women have said that he explicitly asked for sex, so I guess that’s to his credit, but did I also mention naked Ryan, eewww? Cheers, Geoff |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 6, 2019 10:34:30 GMT -6
Everyone should understand that there's always a level of quid pro quo involved in any business dealings. It's when it's specifically sex that it gets unethical.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 6, 2019 14:04:00 GMT -6
It's definitely a grey area, and John's not wrong to say that it can be unethical if it was specifically sex. I don't think these things happen quite that way very often though. Like I said earlier, there's only so much time in a day for doing personal things after eating, sleeping, working, etc. So it's perfectly natural to want to spend that time with someone you're attracted to if you're single. Did Adams step into a creepy zone, it sounds like he might have, but I just don't sense he's in the Louis CK or R. Kelly category, if you know what I mean.
No way to tell without more specifics.
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Every single woman in America knows what's up when they start chasing fame and money in a man. Give me a GD break. Leave. Stop pursuing the male celebrity if you don't want to deal with his overtures. These women are way out of bounds. This isn't a guy they met at school. I guess next time I go to a topless bar I will report the women there for trying to pressure me out of my money. a lot of the MeToo movement is well founded, this is straight up ridiculous. If you don't like a controlling man or a controlling woman don't go there, don't pursue a relationship with them. Take some responsibility for the situations you put yourself in and knowingly initiate. Crap like this will hurt women who are victims of actual crimes. (If he crossed the line with a minor, which is a different topic than the headline...then he is an idiot and a criminal). But women who flocked to him to become discovered or famous themselves, were using him for his celebrity and he was using them for their looks. There is no confusion there ever when it comes to this age old tripe. Any woman who chases a rock star/Producer so that "they can be discovered" knows exactly what shortcut they are trying to take. And when it doesn't work out, as it rarely does, they go crying. MAKE IT ON YOUR OWN. Mandy Moore and all the rest of these women never had a chance in hell of making it on talent and they knew it. So they tried to cheat and use their looks to hook up with a powerful older man. They get what they deserve when they take the Bimbo route that everyone in America knows. I don't see Margo Price doing that... 
