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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 14:55:25 GMT -6
Post by sirthought on Apr 8, 2019 14:55:25 GMT -6
To me they were pretty close on most of sources. Or not enough of a difference to really worry about. On drums I felt the Telefunken had a bit more of a tighter tippy top end. More control. The Warm seemed a tad bit washy on the crash cymbals high end. But really, nothing worse than several other good options. I thought the vocals and acoustic guitar sounded great on all three. The Warm is holding up well.
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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 15:16:52 GMT -6
Post by kcatthedog on Apr 8, 2019 15:16:52 GMT -6
I have never used a real 251 but have heard good ones on recordings. I just find the wa251 has a nice presence, without being overpowering/boomy and has a smooth top end, which makes it very usable.
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 8, 2019 15:33:30 GMT -6
I have a few issues with the shootout in general, but I still felt the Tele stood out as the most 3D and big sounding, but it was subtle. I gotta give Warm some props for going with clones that are rounder sounding than most other clones. You do not get the overly bright sound that you get from a lot of clones.
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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 17:44:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 000 on Apr 8, 2019 17:44:33 GMT -6
I have a few issues with the shootout in general, but I still felt the Tele stood out as the most 3D and big sounding, but it was subtle. I gotta give Warm some props for going with clones that are rounder sounding than most other clones. You do not get the overly bright sound that you get from a lot of clones. I think if warm has listened to literally - any feedback- on what people don’t like about budget mics they would focus on a smooth top end. Oddly enough I’ve just been hired to work on a big gospel choir album - and I’m trying to decide between a pair of these or the AA.
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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 18:23:24 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Apr 8, 2019 18:23:24 GMT -6
I don’t understand your post ? Have you tried the wa251 and don’t think the top end smooth ?
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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 18:38:07 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by 000 on Apr 8, 2019 18:38:07 GMT -6
I don’t understand your post ? Have you tried the wa251 and don’t think the top end smooth ? I’m just saying it’s well discussed that “cheap clones” sound brittle and harsh in the highs. If you’re going to make a budget clone in today’s market it seems that would be a MUST to get right. So far, it sounds like Warm did a great job on doing just that. I’m in the market for a pair of 251 style mics. I might just get another Stam 67 depending on how it sounds and if I can manage the wait. I do need something soon though..so I’m really comparing these with the Advanced Audio clones.
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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 18:53:18 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by kcatthedog on Apr 8, 2019 18:53:18 GMT -6
If you are in the states why not get 2 wa251 from Sweetwater, they have great return policies : right ?
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 8, 2019 19:05:35 GMT -6
I have a few issues with the shootout in general, but I still felt the Tele stood out as the most 3D and big sounding, but it was subtle. I gotta give Warm some props for going with clones that are rounder sounding than most other clones. You do not get the overly bright sound that you get from a lot of clones. I think if warm has listened to literally - any feedback- on what people don’t like about budget mics they would focus on a smooth top end. Oddly enough I’ve just been hired to work on a big gospel choir album - and I’m trying to decide between a pair of these or the AA. For a gospel choir in that budget I’d lean toward a pair of AA CM49s.
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WA-251
Apr 8, 2019 23:25:54 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by miscend on Apr 8, 2019 23:25:54 GMT -6
Does the Warm have an edge terminated K67 capsule like most clones.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 9, 2019 0:06:43 GMT -6
From the website:
All Brass Capsule The WA-12-B-60V is an all-brass, edge-terminated capsule that captures all the smoothness, rich top end, and warm vintage sonics of the original CK12 capsule. The WA-12-B-60V uses a variant CEK-12 back plate as a basis, which overcomes manufacturing limitations of the original CK12 capsule. The o-ring and housing of the WA-12-B-60V are all made from brass (no teflon parts), and the diaphragm is 24k gold sputtered 6 micron, NOS PET film (mylar). The end result is a very consistent, reliable capsule which matches the frequency response and tonality of the classic 1970's classic capsule.
I made the studio 931 c12 and used the Campbell cap and nos ge 5 star tube. I had my mike checked by Brian Fox who confirmed it was spot on factory specs, he also made some slight part changes to 251 it. As I mentioned above, the wa251 is a good mike to demo so you can hear it first hand and decide about its sonics, personally I am completely happy with mine and am thinking about a second for overheads, as I really like the smooth top end.
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WA-251
Apr 9, 2019 1:08:56 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by chessparov on Apr 9, 2019 1:08:56 GMT -6
Rumor has it 3U Audio makes the WA-251 capsule, but I'm not totally sure.
The more examples I hear, I strongly suspect the anemic one I heard/sang through at NAMM, wasn't a "good one".
I'm glad that we hear from end users, who are happy with theirs. Chris
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 9, 2019 6:18:40 GMT -6
Does the Warm have an edge terminated K67 capsule like most clones. Yes. The info is either on their website or in the manual, but it’s a CEK12 capsule not a CK12. John Peluso designed the CEK12. AA uses it in their mics as well. Warm uses a more accurate circuit to the original. AA uses a very clean circuit for less noise and higher spl levels, but they also have a cleaner sound. Frankly, it’s probably a great candidate to just put a TC12 capsule in it and be done.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 14, 2019 14:39:42 GMT -6
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Post by Vincent R. on Apr 14, 2019 15:53:33 GMT -6
Ha ha!
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Post by ragan on Apr 14, 2019 16:10:34 GMT -6
That's a good thing about a company that moves as much product as Warm does. You can always find em. Scoop it up and put up some blind ABs with the Shannupton
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 14, 2019 16:44:35 GMT -6
I'm kinda tapped...been buying stuff like crazy...and I have a TG Mic coming. I'm reeeeallly tempted to sell them both for the 67...but I haven't heard one in person.
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Post by Johnkenn on Apr 14, 2019 16:44:59 GMT -6
Buying stuff gives you the fever...all I want is more, now.
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Post by kcatthedog on Apr 14, 2019 17:08:26 GMT -6
We hear you brother ! Hi, my name’s Matt and I’m a gearoholic !
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WA-251
Apr 14, 2019 18:42:00 GMT -6
Post by chessparov on Apr 14, 2019 18:42:00 GMT -6
On/before the Holidays, I want to make the "Pilgrimage" to Vintage King LA, and try out some versions of the iconic "Classic 5" microphones. U47/67/C12/251/C37. I'm fully prepared to "take back" my personal reservations of the 251, compared to the other four Classics.
It may sound somewhat naive (at best), but my Oktava 219 & 319 are U47-ish enough for me right now-to defer considering a U47 FET style LDC.
But the U47/C12 sonic "blend" concept, of the 251, will always intrigue me! Chris
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Post by Ward on Apr 15, 2019 11:47:30 GMT -6
On/before the Holidays, I want to make the "Pilgrimage" to Vintage King LA, and try out some versions of the iconic "Classic 5" microphones. U47/67/C12/251/C37. I'm fully prepared to "take back" my personal reservations of the 251, compared to the other four Classics. It may sound somewhat naive (at best), but my Oktava 219 & 319 are U47-ish enough for me right now-to defer considering a U47 FET style LDC. But the U47/C12 sonic "blend" concept, of the 251, will always intrigue me! Chris funny. The first words out of my mouth upon actually hearing a 251 were "it's like a U47 and C12 had a baby". .. just over 25 years ago.
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Post by Ward on Apr 15, 2019 11:56:05 GMT -6
On/before the Holidays, I want to make the "Pilgrimage" to Vintage King LA, and try out some versions of the iconic "Classic 5" microphones. U47/67/C12/251/C37. I'm fully prepared to "take back" my personal reservations of the 251, compared to the other four Classics. It may sound somewhat naive (at best), but my Oktava 219 & 319 are U47-ish enough for me right now-to defer considering a U47 FET style LDC. But the U47/C12 sonic "blend" concept, of the 251, will always intrigue me! Chris Well, allow me to spend your money for you. A U47 FET has enough of the famous U47 'gack' in the lower presence range to make you happy enough with it to hold off on a U47 clone for a very very very long time. the Heiserman H47 sounds EVEN BETTER as it already has a tiny bit of the 350hz mud lightly scooped out of it, and has just a tiny bit more air. It's like a tuned U47, but unless you're listening to it next to a Neumann U47, you will swear you're listening to the Neumann. I strongly support and endorse Heiserman. Heiserman has also been asked, repeatedly, to make their version of a 251. I wish Bryce and team great success with their 251, and opening minds to qn understanding of what makes the classic 8 (six) great, U47 M49 U67 U87 C12 251 C37 U47FET.
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WA-251
Apr 15, 2019 21:48:29 GMT -6
Ward likes this
Post by chessparov on Apr 15, 2019 21:48:29 GMT -6
+1000 on the Heiserman H47 FET. That'd be the logical upgrade from my Oktava's, and I totally agree with your sonic assessment. I was amazed to prefer the Heiserman H47 FET (slightly) over the mighty U47 FET reissue! That's quite an achievement-to say it mildly.
Your "lower presence range"/"air" insight Ward, is exactly what keeps my Oktava 219/319's from being mistaken for a real primo U47-to a trained ear. I even have added a few db to 12 KHz attempting to add "air", to get closer to the Neumann sound. And yes, I could hear the subtle "air" enhancement on the H47 FET vs. the U47 FET.
Upon reflection, also agree on your Classic 8 picks. (with the U87 being the vintage U87i, over the AI) Chris
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Post by drbill on Apr 15, 2019 22:21:18 GMT -6
Ugh...
Sorry, I'd have to disagree - pretty strongly. For me, the 47FET is only good on kick drums or a bass cab or a tuba. I'd never use it on a vocal. I'm sure it works sometimes, but it does not deserve a place at THAT table with THOSE mics. I guess I need to hear the Heiserman mic, but the real 47FET. No way.. Especially when the M269 and RCA44 and KM54 and KM86/84 and......and a host of other great mics are not even listed. Where's the M50??? Or many other classics. The sony is a good mic - but you think of it higher than an 800G?? IMO it's not worthy of the list either IMO. I guess that's why they say different strokes for different folks. Cheers, from the dissenting faction.....
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WA-251
Apr 15, 2019 23:00:15 GMT -6
Post by chessparov on Apr 15, 2019 23:00:15 GMT -6
I understand Dr. Bill, and AFAIK Klaus is in agreement with you-in that he prefers the U47 Tube over the FET generally on vocals.
Yet... I admit a personal bias as it works great on me (both 47 FET and could tell the same for H47 FET) Plus there have been instances where the U47 FET was spectacular. Like Low Rawl's vocal on "You'll Never Find".
BTW I wonder if part of the reason the U47 FET is somewhat underated (IMHO) sometimes is...
Maybe "that" microphone has spent years of its life AS a kick drum/bass cab microphone? That could affect its performance, as a vocal mic-right? (Grasshopper asks)
BTW my favorite vocal mic (ever tried) is the 44 ribbon. Chris
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Post by drbill on Apr 15, 2019 23:42:05 GMT -6
I'm not against FET mics. Just the 47FET. Actually, strangely enough, I tend to gravitate towards FETs.
Every mic works for something / someone, so I get it if it works for you. History has pretty much played this out though. The 47FET never really got it's comeuppance until "U"47's skyrocketed in price. Then the only "reasonable" 47 was a FET,, and the "number" carried it up, and it started gaining some traction. At least that's my theory. Honestly, in 20 years I never saw one used on anything except what I mentioned above. Until recently when it's resurgence has gained what I consider a completely unexplained popularity. I just don't get it. But that's 100% OK, cause I don't like 800G;s either, and that's one of the most all time popular mics in certain circles.... Go figure.
Variety is the spice of life....
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