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Post by Quint on Jan 16, 2019 0:06:36 GMT -6
We run 16 track Ampex mm1200 and Scully 280 4 track here for different flavors. Picking off the repro head into protools on the fly for instant transfer. Punches and drop ins and overdubs can all be done "through" tape as well. We monitor off the repro so there is no guessing how hard your hitting tape etc. It's a great system that leaves me doing a lot less come mix time... I'm not sure I could live without it. I had my heads sent out for relap at JRF for a couple weeks, and it felt very strange! Envious. I wish I could say I was running off of a mm1200. It's still my dream to do so.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 16, 2019 0:25:12 GMT -6
Anyone here still using a tape machine, either for nostalgic reasons or otherwise? If so, what do you have? I have an Otari MK5050VIII 1/2" eight track and an Otari MTR-12 with 1/2" & 1/4" heads/tape paths. I realize that in a strictly professional situation they may not be practical any more, but I enjoy the process and like watching the machines do their thing. Of course, there are drawbacks but I'm glad that I still have the option. I have a Studer A800 MKIII 24 track 2". I also have an MCI JH110 with 1/4" guides and 2 track heads but 4 channels of electronics that is not currently running.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 16, 2019 0:27:08 GMT -6
I’m following here... I’m old enough to have done plenty of sessions to tape, and remember very clearly the first session we did radically going digital, recording to Betamax (in a room full of Buchlas!) My own little room is hybrid, everything goes out to hardware and returns summed, etc etc. My interest in tape machines is primarily learning and interest, but here’s a question: does anyone here run digitally captured sessions, mix hybrid, and then print to tape? If so, do you then print back to digital, or deliver tape for mastering? Followup- what’s a solid 2 track to print to that can be self-maintained but of high enough quality to yield a musical result, ie: worth the trouble? I realize what I’m suggesting is a bit of a headache. But I’m also looking to just learn something. Curious. Thanks all. No, I do the opposite - track to tape, dump the tape to digital, mix OTB and record back to digital.
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 16, 2019 0:35:33 GMT -6
There’s a Studer A807 1/4” here that needs a new home, I rarely have anyone want to use it for mix. Still have the TEAC A3340S my band was using before the first ADAT came out. We synced it for another 3 tracks a few times, that’s disturbing to watch. It’s funny how many Studers and Ampex machines end up in the hands of hipsters who have no idea the work involved in keeping them working correctly! There is a guy here in KC with a bunch of A3340’s synchronized, I can’t imagine working that way! It’s like dude if you want to go analog buy a real machine life would be so much easier! The maintainance issue is a major reason that I track to tape and then dump to digital. The routine maintenance on the A800 is pretty steep - i generally keep a couple of sticks of 5532s and 5534s around for quick rechipping of the audio cards. And the Molex situation is a royal PITA. I really need to pick up a couple more spares of each of the audio cards when I find a good deal on them,, too...
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 16, 2019 0:46:26 GMT -6
Get lots of requests for tape these days from bands with no budget. When people ask me what I charge I usually scare 'em away by telling them what a new reel of tape costs ($300-$350) - to the audio dealer, not me. After they buy the tape we can talk about time..... they rarely make a second inquiry. For my own stuff I use used one-pass tape, which is up to about $100 for a 10 inch these days. 3M 996, which I've had ZERO sticky-shed problems with. I avoid Ampex like the plague.
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Post by rowmat on Jan 16, 2019 1:09:22 GMT -6
I have a Tascam 58 1/2” 8-Track and a Revox B77 1/4” 2-Track that have been collecting dust for about 10 years. However I really want to get our Ampex ATR up and running.
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Post by drbill on Jan 16, 2019 1:30:26 GMT -6
Yeah. I'd mix completely ITB if I could work that old school way again. Well...... Maybe. There’s RADAR mode on a RADAR....24 tracks and you don’t even need a monitor if you keep track of the times. I was speaking more of the production style of working in the 80's / 90's even, than I was of a 24 track machine. I miss the old way of working with musicians, not necessarily the gear.
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Post by rockprocess on Jan 16, 2019 7:42:50 GMT -6
I love printing mixes through my restored Revox A77 high speed machine to 1/4 sm911. It’s almost as much a feel thing that it adds than just purely sonic.
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Post by Tbone81 on Jan 16, 2019 9:02:48 GMT -6
Where are you guys buying your tape? Any recommendations for good 1/4" tape stock?
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Post by oliviadolphinjohn on Jan 16, 2019 10:43:25 GMT -6
I go in 'reverse' sort of. Record basics with digital on minimal number of tracks, and tweak in DAW. Run basics through hardware and transfer to Otari MTR90III 2" 16-track Add overdub tracking on tape with effects printed, then mixdown through console to Otari MTR12 1/2". MTR12 has been very easy to maintain, and I got it cheap. MTR90, more expensive/painful but sounds fantastic. Probably doesn't make any business sense at all I like 'recording the masters' tape.
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Post by svart on Jan 16, 2019 11:06:08 GMT -6
I bought a 2" 24 track a couple years ago.
I had dozens of bands through that wanted "tape" sound, so it seemed like something I could offer that few other studios in the area wanted to offer.
I had another dozen bands contact me about it, but not a single one came through. 300$ for a roll of new tape that lasts 25 minutes? NO THANKS they said.
I bought used tapes and offered significantly reduced prices..
A couple bands came through.. It turns out that they don't really want the tape sound all the badly if it means they can't do DAW type editing to fix mistakes.
I've done more tape transfers than I have recorded bands and I've had more offers to buy this deck than people wanting to record on it.
I'm still having a hard time parting with it though.
Someone gave me a teac 4 track 1/4" machine that needs fixing and I might just do drum stems through that for character and sell the 24 track.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 16, 2019 11:09:42 GMT -6
Get lots of requests for tape these days from bands with no budget. Bingo. Oh my GOD that used to drive me up the wall 15-20 years ago. The very long list of low/no-budget jobs I lost over people insisting on tape, who couldn't afford it in the first place. Many bad sounding records subsequently made at other places on 8 track 1/4" or 16 track 1/2" machines with DBX or dolby C NR. The one guy around here who was running a low budget all (decent) tape based operation folded up recently for lack of work....unless he wanted to do it all for free.
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Post by keymod on Jan 16, 2019 11:11:48 GMT -6
Where are you guys buying your tape? Any recommendations for good 1/4" tape stock? I've been using ATR tape, mostly. Got some pancakes from Vintage King a while back, and was buying full reels from US Recording, but I think you need to buy direct from ATR now
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Post by dreamsambas on Jan 16, 2019 11:41:21 GMT -6
Speaking of tape, have peeps noticed the Mara released a free calibration tape app to celebrate their 10 year Annie! : how cool is that ?? I might just have to check this out! I have an old Revox C278 that I haven't had the time or patience to calibrate
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Post by keymod on Jan 16, 2019 12:59:56 GMT -6
I go in 'reverse' sort of. Record basics with digital on minimal number of tracks, and tweak in DAW. Run basics through hardware and transfer to Otari MTR90III 2" 16-track Add overdub tracking on tape with effects printed, then mixdown through console to Otari MTR12 1/2". MTR12 has been very easy to maintain, and I got it cheap. MTR90, more expensive/painful but sounds fantastid of a rebuc. Probably doesn't make any business sense at all I like 'recording the masters' tape. Sadly, the capstan motor on my MTR12 is in need of a rebuild. Making clicking noises
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Post by rowmat on Jan 16, 2019 15:06:34 GMT -6
Get lots of requests for tape these days from bands with no budget. Bingo. Oh my GOD that used to drive me up the wall 15-20 years ago. The very long list of low/no-budget jobs I lost over people insisting on tape, who couldn't afford it in the first place. Many bad sounding records subsequently made at other places on 8 track 1/4" or 16 track 1/2" machines with DBX or dolby C NR. The one guy around here who was running a low budget all (decent) tape based operation folded up recently for lack of work....unless he wanted to do it all for free. We sold our Otari 1” 8 Track machine a while ago. It was far easier to sell the entire machine than to get a client who wanted to record on tape to pay for a single reel of 1” tape!
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Post by christopher on Jan 16, 2019 18:11:35 GMT -6
I went knocking on doors for work at Prarie Sun a few months ago. They gave me a tour, chatted, they said they have a strict old school policy - work for free ‘internship’ for 90 days, and most engineers drop out. I was like.. nah. wish I could. Anyway, they have a studer neve 80 series room and a studer ssl room. The rooms aren’t very big but they are stocked with awesome stuff. He showed me the older studer 24 track and said the owner plans to make it into an art peice on the front lawn someday. I laughed, I was imagining all the bands tracking on this awesome stuff. The engineer told me sadly pretty much everyone just uses protools and mixes ITB, not even mixing on the consoles. so sad! Then he went on to say most clients would be better served tracking all the vocals at home on a 58. I went home and added it up: ITB + better to record vocals on a 58. Sheesh, it’s a project studio with high end decor. The talent and budgets just aren’t there. I wish I could use that stuff though.
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Post by notneeson on Jan 16, 2019 18:48:59 GMT -6
Get lots of requests for tape these days from bands with no budget. Bingo. Oh my GOD that used to drive me up the wall 15-20 years ago. The very long list of low/no-budget jobs I lost over people insisting on tape, who couldn't afford it in the first place. Many bad sounding records subsequently made at other places on 8 track 1/4" or 16 track 1/2" machines with DBX or dolby C NR. The one guy around here who was running a low budget all (decent) tape based operation folded up recently for lack of work....unless he wanted to do it all for free. Clients who absolutely require tape tend to be extremely awesome or extremely not awesome, not much middle ground in my experience.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 16, 2019 19:14:09 GMT -6
I have a little Otari 5050MKII here that is very cool. I recapped it and did some other work on it but it still needs help that only a qualified tech can do. I ran a whole album worth of tracks through it that a friend and myself did. It has a low mid dip along with its bump on the Ampex 406 tape that cleaned things up and made a nice overall tone.
I don't really use it much. Honestly, I love my Lynx Aurora (n) converters. They capture amazingly whatever I feed them. So I am more concerned with what hardware I am using on the way in for tone. Preamps and mics basically.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 16, 2019 19:25:39 GMT -6
I have a little Otari 5050MKII here that is very cool. I recapped it and did some other work on it but it still needs help that only a qualified tech can do. I ran a whole album worth of tracks through it that a friend and myself did. It has a low mid dip along with its bump on the Ampex 406 tape that cleaned things up and made a nice overall tone. I don't really use it much. Honestly, I love my Lynx Aurora (n) converters. They capture amazingly whatever I feed them. So I am more concerned with what hardware I am using on the way in for tone. Preamps and mics basically. And then came Taupe from Acustica-Audio That’s a really nice plugin. Glad you’re digging your Aurora(n) converters. I’ve been eyeing this for an HDX system but can’t justify the expense yet.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 16, 2019 19:29:19 GMT -6
There’s RADAR mode on a RADAR....24 tracks and you don’t even need a monitor if you keep track of the times. I was speaking more of the production style of working in the 80's / 90's even, than I was of a 24 track machine. I miss the old way of working with musicians, not necessarily the gear. Bill, I may be misunderstaning you or talking past you and if that’s what is happening, I apologize in advance. I think you can absolutely achieve that style of work with a RADAR and it’s dedicated session controller. You don’t even need a video monitor connected to it. That’s was one of the reasons I purchased mine. 24 tracks....arm tracks, record, punch in & punch out just like a tape machine....workflow is almost exactly alike....except that editing doesn’t require a razor blade.
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Post by drbill on Jan 16, 2019 19:52:31 GMT -6
I think you may have misunderstood. I know all about Radar's workflow. I can do that with Pro Tools and a controller as well. It's the style of production, the attitude of the musicians, the era..... None of that seems to be able to be capture able at this point in time. Maybe on occasion, but not in general practice.
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Post by notneeson on Jan 16, 2019 21:36:12 GMT -6
I went knocking on doors for work at Prarie Sun a few months ago. They gave me a tour, chatted, they said they have a strict old school policy - work for free ‘internship’ for 90 days, and most engineers drop out. I was like.. nah. wish I could. Anyway, they have a studer neve 80 series room and a studer ssl room. The rooms aren’t very big but they are stocked with awesome stuff. He showed me the older studer 24 track and said the owner plans to make it into an art peice on the front lawn someday. I laughed, I was imagining all the bands tracking on this awesome stuff. The engineer told me sadly pretty much everyone just uses protools and mixes ITB, not even mixing on the consoles. so sad! Then he went on to say most clients would be better served tracking all the vocals at home on a 58. I went home and added it up: ITB + better to record vocals on a 58. Sheesh, it’s a project studio with high end decor. The talent and budgets just aren’t there. I wish I could use that stuff though. I'm in Petaluma— have talked to their manager about rates but they haven't been able to compete with other spots in SF and Oakland that are also great for tracking. Have mixed a couple things out of there that sound good, though.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 16, 2019 21:59:09 GMT -6
I have a little Otari 5050MKII here that is very cool. I recapped it and did some other work on it but it still needs help that only a qualified tech can do. I ran a whole album worth of tracks through it that a friend and myself did. It has a low mid dip along with its bump on the Ampex 406 tape that cleaned things up and made a nice overall tone. I don't really use it much. Honestly, I love my Lynx Aurora (n) converters. They capture amazingly whatever I feed them. So I am more concerned with what hardware I am using on the way in for tone. Preamps and mics basically. And then came Taupe from Acustica-Audio That’s a really nice plugin. Glad you’re digging your Aurora(n) converters. I’ve been eyeing this for an HDX system but can’t justify the expense yet. Been looking at Taupe. Looks very cool. I dunno about how much CPU it'll take, might be a non starter for me in the end. I like UAD's studer, but I don't always the the tape emu thing anyway. Maybe half the time.
The (n) is great. I mean, if you are using the HD converters, they are definitely nice. I do like the (n) better, but I wouldn't put out the cash to change from HD to (n) until I had all the mics and pre's and other stuff I wanted first.
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Post by Mister Chase on Jan 16, 2019 22:01:24 GMT -6
I think you may have misunderstood. I know all about Radar's workflow. I can do that with Pro Tools and a controller as well. It's the style of production, the attitude of the musicians, the era..... None of that seems to be able to be capture able at this point in time. Maybe on occasion, but not in general practice. Exactly. Guys who can read up a storm so well that they look at the page and hear whats going on before the downbeat. People playing music, and really well, all at once for the most part. It's why I love working with the jazz guys and gals who have all worked their butts off and have degrees. Masters and PhD's in some cases. They aren't messing around.
That being said, the days of Barry Galbraith sight reading piano grand staff on freakin guitar, Tom Tedesco's reading and flare, Howard Roberts virtuosity are over and never will be again. It can be as good again, and I do believe there are players that good still, but that whole recipe of those days... was pure magic.
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