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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 28, 2018 15:04:46 GMT -6
Just went to local store played the vox combo 10 watt with 10 inch, bass very resonating, need to roll it way off, does have chime, but one trick pony?
Marshall dsl 40 watt combo, celestrian, clean 2 OD, 3 band eq, two gains, certainly marshal, great clean and very authoritative on the two gains which did sound quite different in a ramping it kind of way.
Blackstar 5 watt combo, 1 12, certainly impressive, between the fender and Marshall and in between, very versatile, think it had more full bodied tone than marshal.
The 30 watt Vox I got has some kind of problem with odd inconsistent noises, so it’s going back. The BS 5 new is same money as used vox 30. They didn’t have the 20 watt dsl Marshall combo which I would like to try.
Got some new 6v6’s for the egnator, tung sol well reviewed cleaner with smooth distort. I find the egnator a little throaty but it has a good celestrian g12h 70 Special edition , will be keen to hear the new power tubes.
I’ll look around for the 20 watt BS and try to check it out.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 29, 2018 1:46:58 GMT -6
I'm confused which Vox you have, kcatthedog. It sounded like you were saying yesterday you have an AC-15, but today it sounds like it might be an AC-30? I like Marshalls and I like Fenders (of all stripes), but neither of them can do the chime-y, shimmery top of a Vox. Just as a Vox can't do the trademark things of a Marshall or a Fender. The smaller AC-10 you referenced is an interesting amp. I prefer my AC-15 to it, but I don't like carrying my AC-15. The AC-10 is a lot lighter. I have a friend who's owned most Vox combos at one point or another in his distinguished playing life, and he has an AC-10 that sounds great when he plays it. But he would sound great playing through a tin can. The closest "emulation" sound I've ever heard that got close to a Vox sound is the Wampler pedal. Used to be called "Ace Thirty," but Vox made Brian change the name. Now it's the "Thirty Something." I had one for awhile, and it was surprising how close it got. One could argue that every "AC-" Vox is a three-trick pony. It just so happens I could listen to those three tricks for the rest of my life.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2018 2:18:13 GMT -6
it’s the 15, and I agree nothing really does vox chime except vox. As a singer songwriter now recording as well, the 3: fender, Marshall and vox, are a great pallet of textures, so I am just exploring the options and deals.
For example, the Blackstar 20, is on sale in Canada with a company out west, 1,000’s of miles away, but it seems shipping is included. That’s a great amp more versatile than either the fender, Marshall or vox, and it does fender and Marshall but not vox.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2018 2:21:34 GMT -6
Which 3 trick, do you think, today I thought the 10 did the chime well, but you had to roll off the bass a lot so my impression was that was it, perhaps with a pedal it would do dirt. It doesn’t have the top boost so doesn’t cover the AC15C ?
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Post by Guitar on Dec 29, 2018 4:10:03 GMT -6
@the other mark williams
what are the three tricks in your estimation?
I think I'm going to buy an AC30HW on monday
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Post by guitfiddler on Dec 29, 2018 5:16:17 GMT -6
Attachment DeletedThe king of Marshall’s! Need I say more! And yes it can run at 50 watt as well with a switch in the back! Don’t forget Variax mode! Oh, and it does 66, 68, and 66 mod, and 68 mod mode. Nothing like four different tone stacks. Plus Variax! Plexi’s at its best! I just wanted to show some love for a genius amp builder George Metropolis, there is Jim Marshall, and then there is Mr. George Marshall, who takes Marshall to a heavenly place beyond the atmosphere! One more important note...He is only 48 minutes away from me, so, I have to be careful because his designs are insanely good, and you need to hear one vibrating, floating tone, and tickling your ears into guitar exctasy goodness! Beyond oodles of tone goodness! Oh, and one more thing...He also handbuilds your cabs for you to get the goodness from any era! If there is one guy that knows amps and Marshall’s, it’s this guy! One of the top amp dudes in the world!!! I realized that Santa already delivered his massive loads all over the world, but I think we need to make another call to the North Pole because Santa needs to make another delivery to every unfortunate guitar player that has lived and never heard the truth! Have a happy New Year! And if you don’t get your Marshall goodness delivered, then you need to look up George Metropolis and demand a delivery and wall of tone goodness in 2019!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 29, 2018 8:53:39 GMT -6
It just occurred to me kcat, you might actually be looking for a Matchless amp. Guitfiddler's right about a boutique style Marshall-esque amp like Metroplis, and also Friedman. Friedman sounds like the best 100 W. Marshalls you've heard at medium wattages. I've owned two Blacktstars, 5 w. and 20 w. they sounded good, like a Marshall, but the hum was unbearable for recording. I had a THD amp on top of a Matchless 1 12" cabinet. I've owned some of the best Marshall's ever at one point or another, and that Matchless cabinet had it, low end thump for days, chime and warmth.
Unfortunately, the truth is these days to get what you really want, you probably have to pay for the boutique brands. It's all about lowering noise for recording, once you get the right tone.
Louis Electric's Columbia Reverb takes the best Pre CBS Princeton you've ever heard to 111, better reverb, more chime and balls when you need it. Friedman's sound like perfectly tweaked Marshall's, Steely Dan didn't use them for nothing. No Matchless is cheap. There is a fair price Bad Cat that might do what you need, I'll research which model and get back to you.
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Post by iamasound on Dec 29, 2018 9:41:14 GMT -6
Vox chime is prime. I'm doing the AC15 and was able to grab a perfect and clean AC4TV for 50 buckarones. When plugged into a 12" it sounds very nice indeed. The little speaker inside I use when no bottom is warrented. The 1/4 watt trick is even usable late after dark.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 29, 2018 10:06:00 GMT -6
Necessity is,,, While trying out the amps yesterday I bought 2 tung son power tubes as they were well reviewed. I have new pre tubes already. I took my egnator aport and reseated and glued the mounting retainers that the enclosure screws go into and since I had some roxal hardboard 2 inch insulation decided to try lining the inside (tight compress fit) but keeping ventilation vent open ,of course, to see if the combo of new tubes and insulating would help clean up the negator throatyness, resonance and woof. It honestly sounds great, much clearer and tighter and now you much more hear the tone of the guitar. I'll keep checking out amps but nice to have the egnator really dialled in again ! Attachment DeletedAttachment Deleted
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Post by jakeboy on Dec 29, 2018 10:10:28 GMT -6
I will again plug the Mesa TA15 since you are also looking at Vox...the Vox channel in this amp has been called, “the best Vox Vox never did”! All the chime and Vox grit is in the Vox channel on this amp. Plus the Marshall, Fender, And Mesa modes....Most versatile recording amp ever. I am amazed this amp didn’t take over the world.
Thes speaker matters. An Emi Red Fang or Celestion Blue is essential for all the chime and jangly grit. Typical greenbacks and the Fang work great with the Marshall channel...and any Jensen clone or my EV SRO work super with the Fender channel. The Fang works with everything.
Discontinued but can be had all day for 6 bills. I have 5 amps currently and love them all, but this one could be a one-stop recording solution since it does Fender-Vox-Marshall-Mesa. And it does them all very well.
That said, I will never lose my tweed Champ or tweed Deluxe. The TA15 does BF Fender and not tweed tones IMO, even though the Fender channel is called “tweed” on the amp.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Dec 29, 2018 15:11:13 GMT -6
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 31, 2018 12:42:05 GMT -6
Which 3 trick, do you think, today I thought the 10 did the chime well, but you had to roll off the bass a lot so my impression was that was it, perhaps with a pedal it would do dirt. It doesn’t have the top boost so doesn’t cover the AC15C ? I've only played the AC-10 once personally (though I've heard my friend play his on several occasions), and I preferred my AC-15 by quite a bit (or AC-30s I've played). That's not to say the AC-10 is a poor amp: when I played one, it was in a Guitar Center for crying out loud, so what do I know? Certainly the portability slays the AC-15, which is a heavy-ass amp for my musculature. I'm surprised to hear you had to roll off the bass, though. With the speaker being 10", and especially with the cabinet being so much smaller and lighter than the AC-15 or AC-30, I would expect it to be a bit bass-shy compared to a 15 or 30. But I think it's a mostly sealed cabinet, so there may be more bass than expected? I'm sure the AC-10 is a nice amp, especially for the money. My friend is a great guitarist, and he wouldn't play it if it sounded like crap. EDIT: If you ever have an opportunity to play a Morgan DAG15, do it! That thing has serious mojo. It's almost the Platonic ideal of an AC-15.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 31, 2018 13:14:03 GMT -6
@the other mark williams what are the three tricks in your estimation? I think I'm going to buy an AC30HW on monday Personally, I'm not sure the HW versions are sonically worth the extra outlay. I used to be a big fan of handwired over circuit board, but I'm less concerned with that now than I used to be. I don't have as much experience with the modern HW versions, though, so I could totally be wrong. I would imagine the bigger difference might be the cabinet: MDF vs birch. Now aesthetically, the HW are gorgeous, and there are certainly other reasons to buy an amp besides just pure sonics. I say "three tricks." Some people might argue "ONE trick." Those people are not Vox lovers. While it may be an oversimplification, I think of the three tricks thusly: - Cleans: This is possibly the most debatable, b/c it's sometimes difficult to get a truly clean sound without any distortion out of a Vox's EL-84s (IME). The cleans just sound soooo different than they do on a Fender. Voxes are demanding amps, and they can be unforgiving. They remind me of Teles in that regard. They can get brittle up top in a hurry if one is not careful. Hence the "cut" knob on most of them. Good right hand technique (on a RHed player) is essential. The AC-30 especially has a lot of headroom if the Master volume is up all the way. And it can melt your face.
- Crunch: This is where Voxes live, IMO. The "right on the edge of breakup" tone. They take pedals well, especially all manner of boosts (treble boosters, clean boosters). But I think they take browner ODs well, too. I have a Honey Bee that sounds great through my Vox, but sounds like ass through my Top Hat. (And my Top Hat is an EL-84 amp, too.)
- Driven: Voxes are just a mess when pushed really hard into distortion. A total, beautiful sonic mess. A catastrophic mess.
Can you tell I love them? I'm excited to hear your thoughts if you pick up the AC-30HW!
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Post by jakeboy on Dec 31, 2018 14:55:17 GMT -6
A great description of the classic Vox circuit right there! That chimey grit is just so perfect. And musical.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 31, 2018 15:53:43 GMT -6
@the other mark williams what are the three tricks in your estimation? I think I'm going to buy an AC30HW on monday Personally, I'm not sure the HW versions are sonically worth the extra outlay. I used to be a big fan of handwired over circuit board, but I'm less concerned with that now than I used to be. I don't have as much experience with the modern HW versions, though, so I could totally be wrong. I would imagine the bigger difference might be the cabinet: MDF vs birch. Now aesthetically, the HW are gorgeous, and there are certainly other reasons to buy an amp besides just pure sonics. I say "three tricks." Some people might argue "ONE trick." Those people are not Vox lovers. While it may be an oversimplification, I think of the three tricks thusly: - Cleans: This is possibly the most debatable, b/c it's sometimes difficult to get a truly clean sound without any distortion out of a Vox's EL-84s (IME). The cleans just sound soooo different than they do on a Fender. Voxes are demanding amps, and they can be unforgiving. They remind me of Teles in that regard. They can get brittle up top in a hurry if one is not careful. Hence the "cut" knob on most of them. Good right hand technique (on a RHed player) is essential. The AC-30 especially has a lot of headroom if the Master volume is up all the way. And it can melt your face.
- Crunch: This is where Voxes live, IMO. The "right on the edge of breakup" tone. They take pedals well, especially all manner of boosts (treble boosters, clean boosters). But I think they take browner ODs well, too. I have a Honey Bee that sounds great through my Vox, but sounds like ass through my Top Hat. (And my Top Hat is an EL-84 amp, too.)
- Driven: Voxes are just a mess when pushed really hard into distortion. A total, beautiful sonic mess. A catastrophic mess.
Can you tell I love them? I'm excited to hear your thoughts if you pick up the AC-30HW! That's awesome. I placed an order for an AC30HW Head today with Sam Ash. The one they had sold over the weekend so I'm on backorder. I will absolutely come back to let you know what I think in detail. I've got 5 treble boosters standing by, as well as all my other pedals. I'm expecting nothing less than a big growing and learning experience. I just don't see any way this amp could turn out to be bad. I mean come on lots of my favorite bands play this amp. Lots of my favorite albums are this amp. I have a 2x12 with Eminence Red Fang speakers, and another 2x12 with WGS Reaper 30 (similar to 30 watt celestions) those will be the first stops for me with this head I think.
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Post by stormymondays on Dec 31, 2018 17:13:01 GMT -6
5 treble boosters? I hope one of them is an Analogman Beano!
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Post by Guitar on Dec 31, 2018 17:23:42 GMT -6
5 treble boosters? I hope one of them is an Analogman Beano! I'm a "pedal guy" I build pedals for myself and sometimes for sale. I had a treble booster phase, haha. 1. DAM Red Rooster style (mullard germanium transistor, variable bass emphasis) 2. Keeley Java Boost style (another fancy germanium transistor, with 3 EQ modes, and a useless tone knob) 3. Hornby & Skewes style. This is THE "Smoke On The Water" booster, haha. Silicon transistor. 4. Fryer Treble Booster Deluxe, another silicon one, Brian May connection. "low noise" 5. the hand-drawn "Brian May" schematic from his own tech, what he used to use.
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Post by longscale on Dec 31, 2018 19:31:40 GMT -6
I love small tube guitar amps. It is a sickness. I'm a little confused what you are after because this started out Marshall and took a right turn at Vox. Anyway I'll second what Martin suggested, check out some of the small Matchless offerings for some fun Vox chime. I've got an 1x12 Matchless Lightning that does the Vox chime trick perfectly (imo). Mine is an older Sampson era amp that does many many things well. It is loud as hell for a 15w amp. My favorite grab and go small club amp. I've lost track of what Bad Cat offers but I'd think they would have something that would be swimming in a similar pool as the Lightning. The Lightning is one small amp that is imo NOT stuck as a one trick pony. From clean to dirty it sounds great.
If you can find them a old JMI Vox AC4 does a cool chime, but is not something you can gig with. I've not heard the new AC4s at all so I can't say what they sound like. My 1965 Vox AC4 is something special, but not loud enough to gig with under most conditions (like any time you have a drummer!). The Tremelo on the JMI AC4s is cool.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jan 13, 2019 0:05:31 GMT -6
I like the 1962 VOX AC-30 with a good year Les Paul plugged in! Nice solid rock tone! John Waite was in my area last summer. Both his guitarists were playing classic VOX AC-30 amps. Sounded absolutely killer!
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Post by johneppstein on Jan 13, 2019 19:57:06 GMT -6
For example, the Blackstar 20, is on sale in Canada with a company out west, 1,000’s of miles away, but it seems shipping is included. That’s a great amp more versatile than either the fender, Marshall or vox, and it does fender and Marshall but not vox. meh.
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Post by kilroyrock on Jan 15, 2019 22:13:20 GMT -6
I find my old jcm800 50 watt combos on Craigslist often enough for 800-1k. Worth it to try!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 16, 2019 9:27:56 GMT -6
I had the Blackstar 20 W. and 5 W. amps. They sounded like a Marshall and a little like a Matchless, but were so damn noisy to record with, they were essentially unusable. The reverb was very digital sounding, not at all like a spring reverb. It was good, but not great or classic. Also, the knob to go from Marshall to Fender sound was nonsense, the Fender sound wasn't right, but the Marshall sound was good.
Look into the Bad Cat 15W I posted earlier. They sound better than an Egnater, more like a great chimey boutique Matchless or Marshall.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 16, 2019 9:57:01 GMT -6
I had the Blackstar HT 20 and I sold mine as well.
It's fun but it's a little dark and lifeless in some ways.
I'm going to try to get an EVH 5150 III and a Marshall Origin I think.
I'm searching for gain sounds. Blackstar was A- for gain sounds, pretty cool. Ultimately like Martin said it doesn't add up to a really complete package.
My AC-30HW Head comes tomorrow!
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Post by guitfiddler on Jan 16, 2019 20:16:32 GMT -6
I didn't have time to read this entire thread, however the newer Marshall Origin 50 is getting some good reviews for a whopping $650 for a Marshall amp with useable tone, not bad.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 19, 2019 14:33:18 GMT -6
I want to give my first impressions of the Vox AC30HW since I said I would. I am playing through an Avatar cab with 2x Eminence Red Fang speakers. I've had the cab with various speakers since 2004, it's been a workhorse. Had to install the head backwards since the controls are backwards on the amp. This is because in orchestras guitar players would have the amp in front of them on the bandstand. Kind of funky. Doesn't bother me though. It gets pretty loud, not as loud as my DSL100H but that's expected. The master volume is "godsend." I don't have to use an attenuator, I can just use the master volume. This amp for me is all about being pushed, like a lot of amps I guess. The boost footswitch is pretty cool too. It's like having an extra OD pedal on the floor that just sounds like the amp with more gain. @markwilliams was talking about the three personalities. Cleans are super articulate and have a wonderful envelope to the sound. OD is spikey and mean, very touch responsive. Full on gain is explosive and textured. You could easily play some metalcore heavy riffs on this amp with booster pedals, it's not all suit and tie, it can get nasty pretty readily. I'm real happy about that. I bought it for the cleans but I'm glad it's not stuck there. (Like my Fender Showman is.) The 15/30 W switch is interesting. You put it on 15 watt mode and it immediately sucks out all the girth on the bottom, just sort of a lighter weight tone that's a little grindier. This is why I refused to buy an AC15, I knew going in that the AC30 was going to give me that beef on the bottom that I crave. Think Radiohead guitar tones. It can get really bright so the Cut control is helpful for controlling that. You have to watch the treble I gave myself some tinnitus and had to limit my playing time. It reacts SO differently to my OD pedals than any of my other amps. The Vox just always wants to break up and do that EL84 thing, so you feed it some boost or some screamer and it starts yelling at you. It's not a high headroom kind of situation. It's all about the character of the amp, itself. Which brings me to my final point, I get lost on this amp. I feel like I have to re-learn the guitar and songs I already know. I don't know what to play. To me, that is very exciting. A lot of my hobbies with gear are trying to get myself out of the box, to get new ideas for new sounds, and new songs. This one is immediately putting me into an alternate zone. It is unfamiliar and enticing. So right now my setup is the Vox and the Marshall DSL100H as my two main recording amps. I have them on an A/B switch ready to go at all times. Pretty great stuff. Selmer and Fender heads have been moved to the "burgeoning gear pile" for the time being. Funny thing about the Marshall and the Vox they are both UK amps built in Vietnam. Marshall has been going for nearly 2 years now so it was time for some fresh guitar tones. I'm not the kind of person who likes to play something twice. My guitar buying spree of 2018 is over and I'm starting a small amp buying spree, I think. I want to try the Marshall Origin 50 and the EVH 5150 III next. So hey I give it a huge thumbs up, this a really serious guitar amp. Attachments:
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