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Post by Quint on Dec 20, 2018 23:11:41 GMT -6
There's country music defined by the likes of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, etc. But even that was a moving target, and always has been, and I have no problem with that evolution. Hell, a lot of Americana stuff like Son Volt might as well be country.
The difference between any of that, and what corporate posers want to attempt to capitalise on, is intent.
So to try create a line in the sand between what is or isn't country is pointless. What is more important is to define things that actually have artistic merit versus pandering bullshit.
These days, if you sing with a "twang", you are trying to take advantage. The AUTOMATIC vocal inflection is SUCH a turn off as far as I'm concerned.
Not saying that nobody sings that way naturally. But so many don't...
A guy from Maryland in skin tight jeans singing about moonlight and 4wheelers is just bullshit and fake as hell.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 21, 2018 0:24:29 GMT -6
There's country music defined by the likes of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, etc. But even that was a moving target, and always has been, and I have no problem with that evolution. Hell, a lot of Americana stuff like Son Volt might as well be country. The difference between any of that, and what corporate posers want to attempt to capitalise on, is intent. So to try create a line in the sand between what is or isn't country is pointless. What is more important is to define things that actually have artistic merit versus pandering bullshit. These days, if you sing with a "twang", you are trying to take advantage. The AUTOMATIC vocal inflection is SUCH a turn off as far as I'm concerned. Not saying that nobody sings that way naturally. But so many don't... A guy from Maryland in skin tight jeans singing about moonlight and 4wheelers is just bullshit and fake as hell. Bravo. I agree. It’s a little like the whole defining porn thing. I know it when I see it. Well I know country music when I hear it. We’ve been having this fight since the beginning. Jim Reeves was hated by a lot of people in Nashville. And if you listen to “He”ll Have To go” it sounds like pop music of the time...1959. Crazy. Anyway, I started really thinking about what made me a fan of country music and while it was people like George Strait, Gary Morrison, Steve Earle...it was outliers like Radney Foster, Kevin Welch and Chris Knight that made me rabid. I can’t think of who that is right now. And the greatest of all William. This song will change your life.
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Post by sirthought on Dec 21, 2018 2:20:32 GMT -6
John, this music was similar sounding to the material we'd play on the radio in KY, IMO. This vibe is lacking in most of what I hear from people pushing country today.
Some favs from memory.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2018 6:30:47 GMT -6
These "Good Country" recommendations are fantastic, keep them coming! Thanks all for sharing. This is like the Country music my dad would sometimes listen to when I was growing up in the 80s. And sirthought particularly, thanks for reminding me to listen to Nanci Griffith again, I probably hadn't even thought about her since the 80's, and haven't been able to stop playing her first couple of albums all day (I am more Folky than Country). This live version has been on permaloop the last hour:
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 21, 2018 13:34:53 GMT -6
Yes Carrie has a tremendous voice, but if you listen to a classic cut, for example, by Loretta Lynn (or Patsy Cline/Brenda Lee/Tammy Wynette etc.)... MUCH more emotional weight. Also the "Carrie" track was way "too busy" for me. I think that the production, specifically the use of truly excessive amounts of compression is responsible for removing much of the musical weight and emotional expression from that Carrie Underwood cut. You need some dynamic range to express emotion and you can't have weight if everything's mixed "heavy". Pop engineering has really gone downhill in a big way recently. Well, "recent" is a relative term...
I blame at least part of that on the ubiquity of digital recording and mixing, btw....
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 21, 2018 13:48:10 GMT -6
I cover a couple of Jim Reeves tunes, BTW, including "He'll Have To Go." It's a lot of fun hitting that low dropped note but I wish I had his smoothness.
When I was a kid me and my friend used to go to this joint up by the campus where the college kids used to hang out eating burgers and drinking sodas while playing the juke box. They had a rack of those novelty joke toys in the corner like Joy Buzzers, wiggly plastic worms, and fake vomit that we 'd go check out a couple times a week. One day we were there and some college kid had played "He'll Have To Go" at least 10 or 20 times straight on the box. Wonder what was going through his mind.........
We used to watch The Mathis Brothers Furniture Hour with Porter Waggoner and Dolly Parton after school.... WKY-TV out of OKC.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 21, 2018 16:08:35 GMT -6
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Post by chessparov on Dec 21, 2018 20:02:33 GMT -6
Thanks guys! More videos to see/listen to, over the weekend. Along with Ray Charles (of course!) another singer I really respect who comes out of the R&B tradition... Is Aaron Neville. The first time I ever saw him sing a "Country Tune", I was mighty impressed! Chris
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Post by drbill on Dec 21, 2018 20:35:02 GMT -6
I was might impressed BEFORE he sang a country tune. Amazing vocalist.
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Post by matt@IAA on Dec 21, 2018 21:57:47 GMT -6
@johnkenn does this do it for ya?
Or this? Less country more...dunno. But real.
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Post by ericn on Dec 21, 2018 22:38:09 GMT -6
I don't think there is anything new about this honestly..... Even if you go back 40 years and listen to multiple genre's you can hear influences from them just like now. Country music is the melting pot of pretty much all music. You can put a ton of styles of music behind a good story and people are going to like it. And, Country music thank God seems to get that people want to hear certain things and I think that's why Country music is the largest selling genre on the planet. It's cyclical, it'll change and Country will go off into it's own for a while like back in the Alan, George, Garth etc. days. It always does, and it'll be when people get bored of hearing all the snaps and pop influence. I've pretty much taken the line of "if that's what you think will sell records, I'm happy to mix it." I just can't afford to have grand idealistic views anymore, I'm doing this as a living, to support my family and if I want to hear music I personally like, I know where to find it. I know I was one of the biggest "make Country, Country again" guys but I'm in this business to make money and don't have the luxury of not doing something because I would rather it not have an influence of pop. Like I said, Country will go back into it's own little thing again, and it'll be timed exactly on point when people want something new and refreshing. Just the way I look at it these days fella's. Who said they were turning down work? I’m not. I can shovel shit as well as the next guy. The people in charge have gone from being tastemakers and song people to bean counters and focus groups. I ve seen you shovel shit you do it like a pro but we all want to shovel gold!
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 22, 2018 13:18:41 GMT -6
Back in the '50s/'60s singles era, a major consideration for country and R&B singles was fear of getting covered by a more famous pop singer because it would result in the label and artist earning zip for their efforts. For this reason, the production of crossover style singles with strings and horns was considered a must. At the very least, covering that would be an expensive gamble. Everything changed with the popularity of albums in the late '60s.
Now we're back to singles...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 22, 2018 13:36:35 GMT -6
Prior to the 1980s, the people in charge were literally the people who reached into their wallets and laid down some cash to buy records. The radio stations called local record stores several times at week to find out what people were buying and adjusted their programming accordingly. There were no real tastemakers. That's why the top 40 format worked so well for local advertisers. In the '80s Madison Avenue with their enormous egos stepped in tripping over their manhood. By the '90s new artists on major labels were averaging less than 1000 units! Wall Street didn't like that at all but fortunately they had cassette and CD catalogue sales to hide the new artist problem. All was well until Napster wiped that source of revenue out.
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Post by Tbone81 on Dec 22, 2018 14:12:25 GMT -6
It’s nice to see that this thread has moved from “music x sucks” to “music y is awesome”. It’s refrshing and is one of the reasons I love this forum.
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Post by b1 on Dec 25, 2018 8:17:46 GMT -6
This dude is laying down the damn truth... wow, that's disgusting. Not only is the music horrible, but the way they mimic rappers with the hands and monkey actions general. I'll take talk radio over that any day - all day..
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 25, 2018 14:56:55 GMT -6
The best beets for country music are found in the garden. Although I must say they remind me more of balalaikas than banjos and steel guitars...
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 25, 2018 19:45:47 GMT -6
Bonnie Prince Billy and his many pseudonyms are probably the most evocative stuff I can think of that relates to this.
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Post by Quint on Dec 25, 2018 22:28:44 GMT -6
Speaking of Bonnie Prince Billy, have any of y'all seen this more upbeat version of "I See A Darkness"? I love this version. BPB is also how I got into Angel Olsen, which is also fantastic.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 3:03:38 GMT -6
Bonnie Prince Billy/Will Oldham is how I got into Angel Olsen too, got her first LP, still need to pick up the more recent one. My fave BPB LP is 'Wolfroy Goes To Town'.
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Post by din on Dec 26, 2018 8:01:06 GMT -6
Sounds more like honkey R&B than country.
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Post by Quint on Dec 26, 2018 10:22:07 GMT -6
There's country music defined by the likes of Hank Williams, Johnny Cash, etc. But even that was a moving target, and always has been, and I have no problem with that evolution. Hell, a lot of Americana stuff like Son Volt might as well be country. The difference between any of that, and what corporate posers want to attempt to capitalise on, is intent. So to try create a line in the sand between what is or isn't country is pointless. What is more important is to define things that actually have artistic merit versus pandering bullshit. These days, if you sing with a "twang", you are trying to take advantage. The AUTOMATIC vocal inflection is SUCH a turn off as far as I'm concerned. Not saying that nobody sings that way naturally. But so many don't... A guy from Maryland in skin tight jeans singing about moonlight and 4wheelers is just bullshit and fake as hell. Bravo. I agree. It’s a little like the whole defining porn thing. I know it when I see it. Well I know country music when I hear it. We’ve been having this fight since the beginning. Jim Reeves was hated by a lot of people in Nashville. And if you listen to “He”ll Have To go” it sounds like pop music of the time...1959. Crazy. Anyway, I started really thinking about what made me a fan of country music and while it was people like George Strait, Gary Morrison, Steve Earle...it was outliers like Radney Foster, Kevin Welch and Chris Knight that made me rabid. I can’t think of who that is right now. And the greatest of all William. This song will change your life. I remember when I first heard of Chris Knight back in the early 2000s when I was in college. He kind of hit it "big" around that time period, at least in the circles I was running in. But then he kind of dropped off the radar again. Whatever happened to him?
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 26, 2018 10:26:15 GMT -6
From what I understand, he's a lot like his persona...kinda nuts.
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Post by formatcyes on Dec 26, 2018 23:25:43 GMT -6
I normal hate mashups but this is very cool and country.
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Post by jazznoise on Dec 27, 2018 5:52:26 GMT -6
Bonnie Prince Billy/Will Oldham is how I got into Angel Olsen too, got her first LP, still need to pick up the more recent one. My fave BPB LP is 'Wolfroy Goes To Town'. Angel Olson is the bee's knees. Only recently got "Burn Your Fire For No Witness" after the singer in my band raving about it for so long. Something almost pagan feeling about the whole thing. Unfucktheworld into Forgiven/Forgotten is a hell of a way to open an album.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 6:00:01 GMT -6
Yeah that's the album I've got, it is very good. Missed her gig here last year, mustn't let that happen again!
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