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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2018 14:56:19 GMT -6
I've compared my AS Opto Comp to a re-issue LA2A and have had a TON of experience with a vintage, "holy grail" LA2A. The AudioScape nails it. BUT, if you're used to using only plug-in emulations of the LA2A and then try an actual hardware unit (whether it be the real deal or otherwise) you may think to yourself "wow... this is actually a bit more on the subtle side"... BUT, that's when you're using it subtly, as you might on a vocal after an 1176. The real magic comes when pushing INTO the HW / compressing a TON / cranking the make-up gain... there's no comparison. The HW is infinitely more useable and euphonic. The AudioScape, OG vintage unit and re-issue all have this "thing" about them that is hard to put into words. Anything you put through it has more weight, density, and absolutely effortless dynamic control. It can get gnarly when you want it to, or damn near invisible. The V1 12AX7 makes the BIGGEST difference in the 'cleanliness' of the AudioScape + UA hw pieces. I have a few NOS RCA (black plate, grey, long, etc) GE and some other random old USA made tubes and EACH one really changes the character and harmonic complexity / where it sits in the freq range. I (and I believe Chris as well) prefer NOS USA tubes but I've never tried say, a vintage Tung-Sol or the like... I know Chris uses NOS tubes in the Opto Comp and TBH, it sounds absolutely INCREDIBLE, as all of his units do. Hope this helps someone! =D I had the AS opto and Stam MKII opto side by side. I found the Stam to be thicker, more gooey, more weight, woolier, just more color in general. The output was weird because I had it almost CCW in order to keep from peaking. The AS opto was more transparent. I found the AS opto to be much faster (on the release, I think) than the Stam. The Stam was slower, which I had always thought of an LA2A as a slow compressor. I know Stam is using Kenetek opto cells and Chris makes his own in the AS. Both are great pieces. I ended up keeping the Stam. I thought it brought more vibe/color than the more transparent AS. Both great, though. But different, for sure.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 30, 2018 15:03:19 GMT -6
The Stam MKII has different transformers though doesn’t it ?
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2018 15:06:53 GMT -6
The Stam MKII has different transformers though doesn’t it ? Sowter on the input/Cinemag on the output of the Stam vs. Cinemag on both of the AS. That wouldn't change the attack/release speed, obviously.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 30, 2018 16:01:03 GMT -6
Sa-2A is on the site anymore..huh.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 30, 2018 16:41:42 GMT -6
I had the AS opto and Stam MKII opto side by side. I found the Stam to be thicker, more gooey, more weight, woolier, just more color in general. The output was weird because I had it almost CCW in order to keep from peaking. The AS opto was more transparent. I found the AS opto to be much faster (on the release, I think) than the Stam. The Stam was slower, which I had always thought of an LA2A as a slow compressor. I know Stam is using Kenetek opto cells and Chris makes his own in the AS. Both are great pieces. I ended up keeping the Stam. I thought it brought more vibe/color than the more transparent AS. Both great, though. But different, for sure. That's just killing me. How can 2 "perfect sonic clone" not even have the same release time !!? One of them at least, is completely wrong in its statement, then ! We can only trust ourselves.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 30, 2018 16:44:10 GMT -6
I had the AS opto and Stam MKII opto side by side. I found the Stam to be thicker, more gooey, more weight, woolier, just more color in general. The output was weird because I had it almost CCW in order to keep from peaking. The AS opto was more transparent. I found the AS opto to be much faster (on the release, I think) than the Stam. The Stam was slower, which I had always thought of an LA2A as a slow compressor. I know Stam is using Kenetek opto cells and Chris makes his own in the AS. Both are great pieces. I ended up keeping the Stam. I thought it brought more vibe/color than the more transparent AS. Both great, though. But different, for sure. That's just killing me. How can 2 "perfect sonic clone" not even have the same release time !!? One of them at least, is completely wrong in its statement, then ! We can only trust ourselves. I promise you'd be hard pressed to find two vintage ones that were the same as well.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 30, 2018 16:45:38 GMT -6
That's just killing me. How can 2 "perfect sonic clone" not even have the same release time !!? One of them at least, is completely wrong in its statement, then ! We can only trust ourselves. I promise you'd be hard pressed to find two vintage ones that were the same as well. That far off ? And, 2 clones are supposed to sound as identical between them as 2 new units, not 2 old ones with deviated capacitors.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 30, 2018 16:57:44 GMT -6
I promise you'd be hard pressed to find two vintage ones that were the same as well. That far off ? And, 2 clones are supposed to sound as identical between them as 2 new units, not 2 old ones with deviated capacitors. Yeah sure. I mean that stuff was PTP and tolorances weren't ulta tight. Ive never heard a vintage unit sound like another. Thats why guys that work a big studios with lots of this gear like SNxyz1 for bass and SNxyz2 for vocals even though its the same unit..its till different. Thus. What are they clones cloning? Which one? Was the one they used for reference in great shape? maybe it was broken and never knew? Who knows. Gear is always different. New or old. Each one has a different soul in it.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 30, 2018 17:02:34 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. I remember the shootout between an actual LA2A and the IGS one. It was perfect.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 30, 2018 17:08:20 GMT -6
The Stam MKII has different transformers though doesn’t it ? Sowter on the input/Cinemag on the output of the Stam vs. Cinemag on both of the AS. That wouldn't change the attack/release speed, obviously. I was referring to the way in which the sound was characterized as the transformers being compared are not apples and apples ?
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Post by drbill on Nov 30, 2018 17:12:37 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. . Those are T4B dependent - and getting two optical voodoo T4B's to match is damn near impossible.
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Nov 30, 2018 17:31:49 GMT -6
Aaahh. Makes sense.
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Post by Blackdawg on Nov 30, 2018 17:36:34 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. I remember the shootout between an actual LA2A and the IGS one. It was perfect. didnt know igs made an la2a Looks nice! Loaded with tubes and transformers. Also..expensive! haha All stepped controls too. Man I like IGS's stuff. Need some of that in my life.
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Post by ericn on Nov 30, 2018 20:09:52 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. . Those are T4B dependent - and getting two optical voodoo T4B's to match is damn near impossible. Yeah, but I think I saw somebody was using an LED in their modern T4B so that might make it more consistent.
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Post by drbill on Nov 30, 2018 23:07:21 GMT -6
Probably would be more consistent. But at that point is it a T4B?
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Post by indiehouse on Nov 30, 2018 23:16:12 GMT -6
I always understood the Kenetek opto’s set the bar, like Tim campbell’s capsules set the bar. That was one reason I kept the Stam, because of the Kenetek cell. I assumed it was more accurate.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2018 1:39:32 GMT -6
Stam has discontinued his 2a. I saw a reference to him saying he may have a couple left.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 1, 2018 2:52:50 GMT -6
Stam has discontinued his 2a. I saw a reference to him saying he may have a couple left. wow, really? Where’d you see that? As of my writing this, it’s still on his site with an “Add to Cart” button. Regardless, I’m glad I got one when I did.
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2018 2:55:59 GMT -6
Yesterday on a GS thread quote is from Joshua.
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Post by the other mark williams on Dec 1, 2018 2:58:53 GMT -6
Yesterday on a GS thread quote is from Joshua. huh, wow. That surprises me. I wonder if the value of mine just went up...
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 1, 2018 3:29:16 GMT -6
Only if you are not selling it to me !
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Post by Ward on Dec 1, 2018 11:18:10 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. I remember the shootout between an actual LA2A and the IGS one. It was perfect. Don't just consider attack and release times but also recovery time . . . the time it takes the compressor's 'engine' (like a T4 cell) to return to it's resting state. That can really affect the way a comp/limiter operates, sounds and ;rides' the waves,
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Post by Mister Chase on Dec 1, 2018 11:31:47 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. I remember the shootout between an actual LA2A and the IGS one. It was perfect. Don't just consider attack and release times but also recovery time . . . the time it takes the compressor's 'engine' (like a T4 cell) to return to it's resting state. That can really affect the way a comp/limiter operates, sounds and ;rides' the waves,
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Post by avgatzeblouz on Dec 1, 2018 12:19:45 GMT -6
I hear you BlackDawg, but I still think that at least attack and release times should be dead on. I remember the shootout between an actual LA2A and the IGS one. It was perfect. Don't just consider attack and release times but also recovery time . . . the time it takes the compressor's 'engine' (like a T4 cell) to return to it's resting state. That can really affect the way a comp/limiter operates, sounds and ;rides' the waves, Thanks, much interesting ! I own an SA2A mk1, and would like to have other peoples opinions (maybe p.m. as it is an Audioscape thread ?) : as good as it sounds, sometimes the sound gets squeezed too much when compressing 5-7 dBs. More than an original one; 2 options for me : the unit squeezes too much, OR the GR meter is off. Any experience ?
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Dec 3, 2018 21:09:18 GMT -6
I've been curious about this since you reported your experience a few months ago, Vincent. I also look for an LA-2A to have more color. I prefer my solid state opto circuits to be cleaner. Ultimately, I found a Stam SA-2A with Sowters several months ago when I was pondering the Audio-Scape, so I got that instead. And I love it. Those Sowters are no joke apparently.
Sounds like a winner.
I've yet to own anything with sowters in it that didn't sound great. Big iron.
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