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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 1, 2019 17:30:53 GMT -6
I go back and forth with wanting to upgrade. I think my stuff is coming out really, really good...so, why screw with success? But then - maybe I'm the only one that thinks that lol. Sometimes, you fight upgrades forever and then get it and go - damn, why did it take me so long? i.e. sometimes, you don't recognize your deficiencies until something new reveals it to you - it's like you're constantly getting to new plateaus (if that makes any sense whatsoever.)
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 1, 2019 17:34:10 GMT -6
Saw a pair of b-stock active 20’s go for 3100. I slept on it, logged in to buy and they had sold. Been bumming all day. But I keep reading opinions that the 20’s are “slightly” better with midrange detail than the One15’s. Slightly isn’t encouraging. Of course, others will say “night and day”. Meh. The truth is probably in between. When I got mine a few years back they were demo's and it was before the price increase, still was a stretch at the time but glad I did it. I slept on a pair on Reverb at the end of the year, not as good of a deal as yours but I also kick myself. I'm picking my One18's back up from my friend, it'll be interesting to compare them to the ATC's again. I’d be interested to know what your updated thoughts are. I thought those 20’s had a price decrease, not increase. Weren’t they 6500 or so and went down to 5500? Also, I really don’t want to deal with a sub. Sounds like it’s necessary. Also sounds like a pain. |
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Post by svart on Mar 1, 2019 17:35:43 GMT -6
I would probably need a new Power amp if I got the 20s...I'd love to just buy the powered ones, but they're $5500 freaking dollars. The 20s look to be powered, right? I also wonder how much different a 2way 6.5" speaker can be to make it worth 5500$.. |
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Post by nudwig on Mar 1, 2019 17:44:40 GMT -6
I’d be interested to know what your updated thoughts are. I thought those 20’s had a price decrease, not increase. Weren’t they 6500 or so and went down to 5500? Also, I really don’t want to deal with a sub. Sounds like it’s necessary. Also sounds like a pain. Maybe they split the difference? They listed at $5k when I got mine 3 year ago. I was worried about the sub but for me in 2 different rooms the placement has been relatively painless, from what I understand Brad Lunde designed the Subwoofer Pros 12 go with the 20's so maybe that's why it works so good? John, I'm in the same boat as you with upgrades. For everytime I get something and think I should've left well enough alone I get something else that works wonders. A bit maddening as I know I can make records fine with what I have but damn if there aren't some amazing tools that just make the job easier and more fun. |
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Post by svart on Mar 1, 2019 18:12:14 GMT -6
Everytime I talk myself into upgrading, I always end up realizing that there's still folks making hit mixes on ns10s.. and then chicken out.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 1, 2019 18:35:17 GMT -6
Everytime I talk myself into upgrading, I always end up realizing that there's still folks making hit mixes on ns10s.. and then chicken out. Yeah, I hear you. Every time my finger is on the trigger, I remind myself of quotes like “if you can’t mix on ‘x’ then it ain’t the speaker”. Then I back off and think that I probably already have ‘good enough’. But, at $3100, it’s not like I’d be spending money. Just time and effort, which is in short supply these days. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 1, 2019 19:07:46 GMT -6
I love the dilemma, first time I sat down in front of some atc 25 active, I would have sold a kidney to walk out with them: loved that atc thing !!  |
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 1, 2019 20:08:33 GMT -6
I love the dilemma, first time I sat down in front of some atc 25 active, I would have sold a kidney to walk out with them: loved that atc thing !! I had the 25’s for about a year. I chased details that no one would ever hear. I obsessed over a kick drum pedal noise that was plain as day. Unreal. Sounded like the band was right in front of me. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 1, 2019 20:11:49 GMT -6
I demoed them in a high end monitoring room with psi ? And pcm monitors the atc mopped the floor with the other monitors: sigh, thanks for reminding me ! |
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 1, 2019 21:13:05 GMT -6
I demoed them in a high end monitoring room with psi ? And pcm monitors the atc mopped the floor with the other monitors: sigh, thanks for reminding me ! I guess what I was getting at was at what point does so much detail become counter productive? |
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Post by svart on Mar 1, 2019 22:57:07 GMT -6
I demoed them in a high end monitoring room with psi ? And pcm monitors the atc mopped the floor with the other monitors: sigh, thanks for reminding me ! I guess what I was getting at was at what point does so much detail become counter productive? Right about the point where you don't hear music anymore, you hear a bunch of sounds that need a billion tiny fixes. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2019 4:15:17 GMT -6
Been using my ATC SCM20A SL Pros (original Darth Vader ones) daily for the last eight years and still love them. I would only consider upgrading to larger full SL spec ATCs, probably the 50s, don't think anything larger would work in my current room.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 2, 2019 4:41:43 GMT -6
I hear you and I have certainly wasted money on good monitors when my room couldn’t support them properly.
But, now I feel that really good monitors should be bought when your room is dialed in, when you truely have the ears and good mixing judgement to capitalize on that sonic quality and when you have the money.
For me, if those conditions were meant, I wouldn’t second guess atcs for a moment, and instead appreciate them every moment.
Go for it, if it’s the right time for you!
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Post by nudwig on Mar 27, 2019 16:13:13 GMT -6
I’d be interested to know what your updated thoughts are. I thought those 20’s had a price decrease, not increase. Weren’t they 6500 or so and went down to 5500? Also, I really don’t want to deal with a sub. Sounds like it’s necessary. Also sounds like a pain. Been back on the Amphion One18's for a few weeks. Forgot how fun they are to mix on and there's no translation surprises but I gotta say for my taste, what I want to hear, details, and sheer enjoyment of listening to music the ATC's are better. The Amphions do better without a sub for the lowend but everything just feels a bit glossed over. The funny thing I never noticed before but I do now in working on the Amphions in the morning, then ATC's in the afternoon is that even though they have more details the ATC's still manage to sound more natural. This is of course just my taste and I can definitely get any work done on the One18's but I'll likely sell them to my friend and get another pair of 20's for the home studio. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 27, 2019 16:24:44 GMT -6
I go back and forth with wanting to upgrade. I think my stuff is coming out really, really good...so, why screw with success? But then - maybe I'm the only one that thinks that lol. Sometimes, you fight upgrades forever and then get it and go - damn, why did it take me so long? i.e. sometimes, you don't recognize your deficiencies until something new reveals it to you - it's like you're constantly getting to new plateaus (if that makes any sense whatsoever.) I’m quoting my own post because it’s outstanding. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 27, 2019 16:27:34 GMT -6
I’d be interested to know what your updated thoughts are. I thought those 20’s had a price decrease, not increase. Weren’t they 6500 or so and went down to 5500? Also, I really don’t want to deal with a sub. Sounds like it’s necessary. Also sounds like a pain. Been back on the Amphion One18's for a few weeks. Forgot how fun they are to mix on and there's no translation surprises but I gotta say for my taste, what I want to hear, details, and sheer enjoyment of listening to music the ATC's are better. The Amphions do better without a sub for the lowend but everything just feels a bit glossed over. The funny thing I never noticed before but I do now in working on the Amphions in the morning, then ATC's in the afternoon is that even though they have more details the ATC's still manage to sound more natural. This is of course just my taste and I can definitely get any work done on the One18's but I'll likely sell them to my friend and get another pair of 20's for the home studio. You have any weird phasing stuff with the sub and the One18s? Those sound great no doubt, but I was kind of upset to see just how weird they were with the bottom end after getting the SCM12s. The US distributor for Amphion is a total dick, so it didn’t hurt me too bad to sell them. |
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Post by nudwig on Mar 27, 2019 16:34:12 GMT -6
You have any weird phasing stuff with the sub and the One18s? Those sound great no doubt, but I was kind of upset to see just how weird they were with the bottom end after getting the SCM12s. The US distributor for Amphion is a total dick, so it didn’t hurt me too bad to sell them. I was probably unclear about the sub use, I only use it with the ATC 20's. I couldn't get the Amphions to work with it at all, phasey and was just all wrong. In comparison the ATC's are really easy to integrate with it. |
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Post by ericn on Mar 27, 2019 16:35:19 GMT -6
Been back on the Amphion One18's for a few weeks. Forgot how fun they are to mix on and there's no translation surprises but I gotta say for my taste, what I want to hear, details, and sheer enjoyment of listening to music the ATC's are better. The Amphions do better without a sub for the lowend but everything just feels a bit glossed over. The funny thing I never noticed before but I do now in working on the Amphions in the morning, then ATC's in the afternoon is that even though they have more details the ATC's still manage to sound more natural. This is of course just my taste and I can definitely get any work done on the One18's but I'll likely sell them to my friend and get another pair of 20's for the home studio. You have any weird phasing stuff with the sub and the One18s? Those sound great no doubt, but I was kind of upset to see just how weird they were with the bottom end after getting the SCM12s. The US distributor for Amphion is a total dick, so it didn’t hurt me too bad to sell them. Probably a combination of ATC’s lower phase distortion of the woofer, slow response and tuning of Amphions passive radiatior and just good old fashion dumb luck that the ATC’s mesh better with your sub. |
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Post by nudwig on Mar 27, 2019 16:41:59 GMT -6
Probably a combination of ATC’s lower phase distortion of the woofer, slow response and tuning of Amphions passive radiatior and just good old fashion dumb luck that the ATC’s mesh better with your sub. That makes sense, I just know with the ATC's it sounds like an extension of the speaker. I was worried when I got the sub as I had it delivered to the studio when I had the One18's there so I hooked it all up only to find a terrible mess. Was greatly relieved to find the ATC's took to it without fuss. |
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Post by ericn on Mar 27, 2019 16:47:29 GMT -6
Probably a combination of ATC’s lower phase distortion of the woofer, slow response and tuning of Amphions passive radiatior and just good old fashion dumb luck that the ATC’s mesh better with your sub. That makes sense, I just know with the ATC's it sounds like an extension of the speaker. I was worried when I got the sub as I had it delivered to the studio when I had the One18's there so I hooked it all up only to find a terrible mess. Was greatly relieved to find the ATC's took to it without fuss. Mono subs, are a total pain in the ass to dial in perfect situations, less than perfect well, it helps alcohol sales. Often people think they have a great setup until they make a change and it just works better. |
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Post by dankin on Mar 27, 2019 22:11:43 GMT -6
I'm on a monitor search at the moment. I've been on the two15's for around 4 years, but at some point I just have gotten tired of them. Even though they are not a harsh sounding speaker(to me at least) I struggle with ear fatigue with them. Also in my current space, the lowmids are too forward for me. Some day's I wish I would have kept my ProAc's. I'm really interested in the JBL 708's, also, I've always wanted to try Quested 2108's. Every thing I read about them makes me think I would really like them, they seem to be hard to find though. I'd also like to hear the SCM20, but those with a pair of subs is getting pricey.
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Post by indiehouse on Mar 28, 2019 4:38:52 GMT -6
I'm on a monitor search at the moment. I've been on the two15's for around 4 years, but at some point I just have gotten tired of them. Even though they are not a harsh sounding speaker(to me at least) I struggle with ear fatigue with them. Also in my current space, the lowmids are too forward for me. Some day's I wish I would have kept my ProAc's. I'm really interested in the JBL 708's, also, I've always wanted to try Quested 2108's. Every thing I read about them makes me think I would really like them, they seem to be hard to find though. I'd also like to hear the SCM20, but those with a pair of subs is getting pricey. I see myself moving from the One15’s to the ATC 20’s. I regret not jumping soon enough on the last used deal I saw, but there will be others...sooner or later. The Quested 2108’s have always interested me, but I hear they are big and are almost mid-fields? Ran across this a couple weeks ago: rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F143149524765 |
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Post by ericn on Mar 28, 2019 7:32:29 GMT -6
I'm on a monitor search at the moment. I've been on the two15's for around 4 years, but at some point I just have gotten tired of them. Even though they are not a harsh sounding speaker(to me at least) I struggle with ear fatigue with them. Also in my current space, the lowmids are too forward for me. Some day's I wish I would have kept my ProAc's. I'm really interested in the JBL 708's, also, I've always wanted to try Quested 2108's. Every thing I read about them makes me think I would really like them, they seem to be hard to find though. I'd also like to hear the SCM20, but those with a pair of subs is getting pricey. I see myself moving from the One15’s to the ATC 20’s. I regret not jumping soon enough on the last used deal I saw, but there will be others...sooner or later. The Quested 2108’s have always interested me, but I hear they are big and are almost mid-fields? Ran across this a couple weeks ago: rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F143149524765In the LFC days 2108’s were near fields by default because even with a small 8 bus near field put your ears 4-5 feet from the baffle. The boxes are big but that’s what gives you the low end. If you can’t put them 4 feet from your ears don’t bother, and they really do need heavy duty stands. You really do want the newer version, the newer Volt 8 goes lower and sounds more ATC like, to some Morel tweeter sounds a little laid back but I have never heard anybody talking about needing a break after a day spent listening. The ATC 20 MK2 win in the HF and mid detail but you won’t notice unless they are side by side, just like you don’t think the 3102’s will have better mids till they are side by side. |
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Post by dankin on Mar 28, 2019 9:40:27 GMT -6
Cool. I'm in the 4 foot range now. I don't really like being much closer than that to any speaker for very long. I have sound anchors, so stands are not an issue. I know the ATC 20's are heavy as well.
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Post by ericn on Mar 29, 2019 8:30:03 GMT -6
Cool. I'm in the 4 foot range now. I don't really like being much closer than that to any speaker for very long. I have sound anchors, so stands are not an issue. I know the ATC 20's are heavy as well. Careful you need a wide platform for those 2108’s they are big and heavy! |
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