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Post by btreim on Jul 22, 2013 14:52:10 GMT -6
There have been plenty of great, and not so great records made both ITB and OTB. And at this point the differences (esp. to the casual listener) are negligible. If I'm engineering a record, there's nothing I enjoy more then having a bunch of TT cables thrown over my shoulder and having my hands on the controls of a great compressor or eq. And it just so happens that it is also the way that I accomplish my "sonic vision" the quickest.
When it comes time to mix, there are so many limitations by trying to do it OTB, with recalls and clients expecting you to turn up the shaker 3db six months later, that it hardly makes sense to even attempt it. Thankfully we have two incredible ways to do what we love. Whatever makes you happier, faster.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 22, 2013 14:57:44 GMT -6
I'm hybrid now, and loving it, big phase corrected eq moves, cleaning up, gating, and crazy effects ITB. Most eq, compression, verb OTB always w/exceptions. Best of both worlds.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 22, 2013 15:01:27 GMT -6
You guys used the new Pultecs? I know Colin(slender chap) AML over at groupdiy is going to be offering up hardware clones of the pultec stuff, i'm excited about that! www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=50848.0 |
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Post by svart on Jul 22, 2013 15:32:34 GMT -6
I tried the plugin thing for a while. Some were good, some were hype, some were just plain useless. That being said, I could never match the pleasing sound of real hardware. I really wanted to like plugins due to their ease of use and lesser costs, but I think the thing that really killed them for me was the damn dongle and authentication hassles. I dealt with Waves a couple of times and said screw it and threw in the hat. I still use some utility plugins, mainly one or two that come with Reaper and the SSL mixer for my Alphalink, but other than that, I've gone completely hardware.
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Post by wiz on Jul 22, 2013 16:15:51 GMT -6
Ryan Adams latest album engineered by glyn johns... I fell in love, sonically the best thing I have heard in years and quite possibly my favourite album since John hiatus slow turning.
Ashes and fire
It's interesting , in that no computers we're used in the recording of it. It certainly did it no harm 8)
Regards uad api plug in...I haven't heard it. I used to own uad cards but sold them when I went to iMac 3 to4 years ago. I did hear a demo of the ocean way plug in of a drum kit recorded by a single mic that blew my mind. I am going round and round whether to jump in again.
I have some time On my hands at the moment. I had to have shoulder surgery about three months ago. I have ended up with what they call frozen shoulder. Could be another year before I'm able to play again. So I'm slowly evaluating different things in studio.
I can't do much with my right arm but I am doing a few things. For instance at the moment I'm putting together preamp circuits on a electronics breadboard at the moment.
I just worry that if I get back into the UAD thing, i will end up spending a fortune on plug-ins that i end up not using very often. I really would like to try that ocean way plug on though 8)
Cheers
Wiz
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Post by btreim on Jul 22, 2013 16:26:30 GMT -6
Ryan Adams latest album engineered by glyn johns... I fell in love, sonically the best thing I have heard in years and quite possibly my favourite album since John hiatus slow turning. Ashes and fire Absolutely! There is a lot of inspiration to be found in that record. "Ashes and Fire" (the song) has one of my favorite piano recordings of all time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 16:37:38 GMT -6
OK, good topic.
A month ago or so i couldn't resist and bought Harrison Mixbus for a ridiculously low price (35 Euros).
Sound is really, really convincing. But what really makes the difference ist the ease of use for someone who is used to mix in the analog domain. It is minimal, behaves like analog and does not only claim to do so, sounds good and get's the job done. Unlimited channels (ok, computational power is the limit) with quality EQs and even channel compressors and bus filters and compressors. Pretty complete. Even runs under Linux, where the console knobs can be midi automated. Ideal for a dedicated mix machine.
UAD convinced me instantly after i got one. EMT250 is a no-brainer.
I'm still indifferent about Acoustica Audio's Nebula Engine. Meanwhile computing power is not the problem anymore. But the interface is somewhat clumsy and support has been not perfect from time to time, because it is a very small company indeed. Sounds are great. Really.
Too bad sintefex has the hands on the technology, legally, otherwise everyone would have the opportunity to get dynamic convolution effects even for free or open source which open up indistinguishable digital copies of real analog hardware by 'simply sampling' series of impulse responses. Not limited on pres and delay effects. Convincing dynamics possible...
Lots of obstacles that gave "digital" a bad reputation have been sorted out already. Nearly all DAWs have seriously improved their summing algorithms to absolutely acceptable quality a few years ago.
OK, i still have an analog mixing console. Disassembled in boxes...a good feeling beeing able to switch back if i feel the need - or just "cause"....
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 22, 2013 19:02:01 GMT -6
Ryan Adams latest album engineered by glyn johns... I fell in love, sonically the best thing I have heard in years and quite possibly my favourite album since John hiatus slow turning. Ashes and fire It's interesting , in that no computers we're used in the recording of it. It certainly did it no harm 8) Regards uad api plug in...I haven't heard it. I used to own uad cards but sold them when I went to iMac 3 to4 years ago. I did hear a demo of the ocean way plug in of a drum kit recorded by a single mic that blew my mind. I am going round and round whether to jump in again. I have some time On my hands at the moment. I had to have shoulder surgery about three months ago. I have ended up with what they call frozen shoulder. Could be another year before I'm able to play again. So I'm slowly evaluating different things in studio. I can't do much with my right arm but I am doing a few things. For instance at the moment I'm putting together preamp circuits on a electronics breadboard at the moment. I just worry that if I get back into the UAD thing, i will end up spending a fortune on plug-ins that i end up not using very often. I really would like to try that ocean way plug on though 8) Cheers Wiz Freaking love Ryan Adams...gonna have to go buy that... |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 22, 2013 19:04:16 GMT -6
I just worry that if I get back into the UAD thing, i will end up spending a fortune on plug-ins that i end up not using very often. I really would like to try that ocean way plug on though 8) Cheers Wiz See - the OW plug didn't floor me...I didn't think it was anything I couldn't do with Altiverb or Valhalla |
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 23, 2013 17:37:22 GMT -6
Here's my take on OW. Used in reverb mode as a stereo aux then sending to it like any other reverb, it really does sound like live room verb. How much like the real OW? Can't say, never been there but it DOES sound like a great live room. I think it sounds a tad more realistic than other room models or convos but certainly not a have to have. And I've found that it's harder to mix for some reason. What sounds good to me on the first mix or print gets way more accentuated when treating the buss mix later yielding a "too roomy" sound if that makes sense.
I do like it though. A lot of the new modern country stuff is tracked with loads of early reflections from a good room and this plug gets close to that.
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Post by lolo on Jul 23, 2013 19:48:05 GMT -6
New Slate VBC is pretty amazing imo.Also like Slate VTM.
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2013 10:03:30 GMT -6
I just worry that if I get back into the UAD thing, i will end up spending a fortune on plug-ins that i end up not using very often. The first part's true! Bummer about the shoulder. |
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2013 10:16:50 GMT -6
OK, good topic. A month ago or so i couldn't resist and bought Harrison Mixbus for a ridiculously low price (35 Euros). Sound is really, really convincing. But what really makes the difference ist the ease of use for someone who is used to mix in the analog domain. It is minimal, behaves like analog and does not only claim to do so, sounds good and get's the job done. Unlimited channels (ok, computational power is the limit) with quality EQs and even channel compressors and bus filters and compressors. Pretty complete. Even runs under Linux, where the console knobs can be midi automated. Ideal for a dedicated mix machine. UAD convinced me instantly after i got one. EMT250 is a no-brainer. I'm still indifferent about Acoustica Audio's Nebula Engine. Meanwhile computing power is not the problem anymore. But the interface is somewhat clumsy and support has been not perfect from time to time, because it is a very small company indeed. Sounds are great. Really. Too bad sintefex has the hands on the technology, legally, otherwise everyone would have the opportunity to get dynamic convolution effects even for free or open source which open up indistinguishable digital copies of real analog hardware by 'simply sampling' series of impulse responses. Not limited on pres and delay effects. Convincing dynamics possible... Lots of obstacles that gave "digital" a bad reputation have been sorted out already. Nearly all DAWs have seriously improved their summing algorithms to absolutely acceptable quality a few years ago. OK, i still have an analog mixing console. Disassembled in boxes...a good feeling beeing able to switch back if i feel the need - or just "cause".... I'm going to buy MixBus soon. Really interested in it. I was recently looking into building a passive summing box but the couple soundclips I was able to hear didn't do it for me. One interesting thing is there's a Mix Magazine article where they compared the Unit Audio passive summing box to a straight Pro Tools sum, a Harrison MixBus sum, an SSL desk sum and an API desk sum. They said that, in terms of width, the Unit Audio sum was closest to Pro Tools, the API desk and Harrison MixBus were very similar and the SSL was the widest. Do you find it sufficiently easy to use your UAD stuff in MixBus? |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2013 10:25:12 GMT -6
Try running a 2 mix through jsteiger 's VC528 Missing Links...I run out a bare 2-bus mix AUX out to the 528's - you can drive it, pull it back, add filtering - and then bring that back in to the master channel and then add whatever after that...It's the bomb. |
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2013 10:33:54 GMT -6
I still haven't gone 500 yet. There are a few pieces tempting me though....
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Jul 25, 2013 10:45:41 GMT -6
Put up an example if you can. I'm interested in hearing it john Kenn |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 25, 2013 11:09:45 GMT -6
I gotta figure out how to balance songwriting, recording and RGO...None of them are paying the bills right now!  |
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Post by ragan on Jul 25, 2013 11:14:08 GMT -6
I'd love to hear a comparison too. Same mix summed in the DAW and through the Missing Links.
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Post by scumbum on Jul 25, 2013 20:49:15 GMT -6
Personally, for me, I think the software tools that come with most DA W's are pretty well good enough. Compared to the expensive third-party plug-ins. By that I mean that realistically the the EQ that comes in Logic for instance is every bit as good as most third-party expensive EQ plug-ins. Same I would say of it's compressor. You may get where you want to go with the fancy graphic interface of a third party plug-in faster, my point is sonically we're pretty much in the same ballpark. All intents and purposes. I feel the same way . I think the stock plugins that come with Pro Tools are pretty much all you really need . I did a blind shoot out on GS with a Hardware 1176 and the BF76 . I picked the BF76 every time as my favorite . |
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Post by lolo on Jul 25, 2013 22:23:38 GMT -6
Try running a 2 mix through jsteiger 's VC528 Missing Links...I run out a bare 2-bus mix AUX out to the 528's - you can drive it, pull it back, add filtering - and then bring that back in to the master channel and then add whatever after that...It's the bomb. Have you compared the Missing links to VP28's on the 2 buss? VP28's rocks on the 2 Buss |
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Post by jakemurray on Jul 26, 2013 4:01:36 GMT -6
Most, if not all of us, can agree that sonically there's no real comparison between ITB and analogue processing. In the analogue world audio is just warmer and wider. It sounds bigger and more pleasant... it takes a long long time to come close to an analogue mix, and in the end it just makes sense to run a mix through some analogue hardware to achieve the extra oomf and width. However, the real reason we do work ITB is for the convenience, it's just a fact. So the close we come to meeting those two worlds in the middle, the better the working process with ultimately be  One piece of ITB processing that really did blow me away recently was the Nebula multi-effect VST plugin. This thing is insanely powerful and a really good way to gradually invest into high-grade software processing one "unit" at a time, much like you would analogue gear: www.acustica-audio.com/ |
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Post by junior on Jul 26, 2013 12:29:54 GMT -6
One piece of ITB processing that really did blow me away recently was the Nebula multi-effect VST plugin. This thing is insanely powerful and a really good way to gradually invest into high-grade software processing one "unit" at a time, much like you would analogue gear: www.acustica-audio.com/Yep. Not the best interface or CPU usage, but some of those third-party libraries smoke... and, they're pretty inexpensive to boot...  |
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 26, 2013 16:30:13 GMT -6
I need to download this into Logic X...Hadn't used it in so long, I forgot about it...
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Post by wiz on Jul 26, 2013 16:39:26 GMT -6
Its an obvious statement I know, but, it depends alot on the quality of the analogue processing.
Sure, really good analogue is great, no doubt.
But, you still need something to track it though and into. Eg audio interface and computer.
So apples to apples, you have a audio interface and computer DAW, and then you have 200 bucks left over and you buy LOGIC PRO X.
Hard to argue that value/quality for money, even ignoring the tracking aspect of the DAW, just its EQs Comps and verbs etc
You dont get too much for 200 in hardware land.
Its one of those portions of the arguement you dont often see made, dollar for dollar.
Dollar for Dollar ITB is probably unbeatable.
You actually have to get to a significant cash investment for them to fight it out head to head
cheers
Wiz
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2013 18:46:11 GMT -6
OK, good topic. A month ago or so i couldn't resist and bought Harrison Mixbus for a ridiculously low price (35 Euros). Sound is really, really convincing. But what really makes the difference ist the ease of use for someone who is used to mix in the analog domain. It is minimal, behaves like analog and does not only claim to do so, sounds good and get's the job done. Unlimited channels (ok, computational power is the limit) with quality EQs and even channel compressors and bus filters and compressors. Pretty complete. Even runs under Linux, where the console knobs can be midi automated. Ideal for a dedicated mix machine. UAD convinced me instantly after i got one. EMT250 is a no-brainer. I'm still indifferent about Acoustica Audio's Nebula Engine. Meanwhile computing power is not the problem anymore. But the interface is somewhat clumsy and support has been not perfect from time to time, because it is a very small company indeed. Sounds are great. Really. Too bad sintefex has the hands on the technology, legally, otherwise everyone would have the opportunity to get dynamic convolution effects even for free or open source which open up indistinguishable digital copies of real analog hardware by 'simply sampling' series of impulse responses. Not limited on pres and delay effects. Convincing dynamics possible... Lots of obstacles that gave "digital" a bad reputation have been sorted out already. Nearly all DAWs have seriously improved their summing algorithms to absolutely acceptable quality a few years ago. OK, i still have an analog mixing console. Disassembled in boxes...a good feeling beeing able to switch back if i feel the need - or just "cause".... I'm going to buy MixBus soon. Really interested in it. I was recently looking into building a passive summing box but the couple soundclips I was able to hear didn't do it for me. One interesting thing is there's a Mix Magazine article where they compared the Unit Audio passive summing box to a straight Pro Tools sum, a Harrison MixBus sum, an SSL desk sum and an API desk sum. They said that, in terms of width, the Unit Audio sum was closest to Pro Tools, the API desk and Harrison MixBus were very similar and the SSL was the widest. Do you find it sufficiently easy to use your UAD stuff in MixBus? Sorry for answering late... So, I use it in Windows for now, and the Win executable of Mixbus is 32-bit only for now - this means: No 64-bit plugins. Be aware of that. The installers for Linux and Mac DO install the 64bit version, if a 64bit OS is detected! So, i do use a UAD-1 with mixbus. Flawlessly. Scan the vst folder. Than just insert with 2 mouseclicks in the mixer view. Easy. I love to strip a pultec in the master bus, just for the larger-than-live thing. Not that the filter in the Master is not good. It is. But well, i love the pultec.... Dunno how i will work with it under linux. But this is, what will come for me. I wanna use it like a digital console, because this is, what it is. And i MUST have a control surface for this one. It feels so analog, i do refuse to click a mix - I want to turn knobs and use flying faders to drive it into saturation . Definitely. If that means i have to feed inserts digitally to a different machine to run the plugins there, and back - well, than this is it. Would be worth it. Mixbus speeds up mixing due to the whole analog behaviour. So this is an argument that cannot be ignored. It is hard to do anything wrong with it, it just sounds good. And you will find a good mix fast. Faster than with other DAWs mixers i know. The very minimal compressors - they sound good. Very good to my ears. The EQ - i love it. The concept? It works for me. I love it the more i use it. Feed it with another DAW. Edit with whatever you want. But mixing with this thing - that is fun, really. This is nothing like the Sonar X2 console api/neve type emu channel strip thing. It is a much more mature system. A goto digital console. Man, the few obstacles like not having Midi and such things - i got this one for the price of a cheap DI-Box. Even for the normally advertised price it is a real steal. A Harrison console DAW that kicks ass for the price of a plugin. For me the best buy since a long long time. And i am in no way affiliated with Harrison. Just to make that point clear. Best regards, Martin |
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