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UA 6176
Aug 4, 2018 23:55:00 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2018 23:55:00 GMT -6
So, I had a very brief time with my 6176.. I bought it second hand and in the space of a week it fell to pieces, luckily I returned it / got a refund no issues..
Question is, do I buy another one? Initially I remember really liking it but as time went on I found it undefined and rather narrow sounding compared to even my desks pre's, limiter was a peach (whilst it worked) and the 1176 / LA-2A combo is still a cracking one to have.
Still I'm really not sure if it was the unit that's borked or if it wasn't all that good?!
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Post by yotonic on Aug 5, 2018 2:00:35 GMT -6
Chris Martin of Coldplay swears by it, but he also married Gwyneth Paltrow and she fell to pieces in the space of a week too...
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 7:18:33 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Tbone81 on Aug 5, 2018 7:18:33 GMT -6
I have a LA610, which is the same pre but with the la2a on the backend and I love it. Narrow and/or small is the exact opposite of how I'd describe it. It's a dark pre, with a silky quality and big, round, pillowy low end. It sounds like the unit you got had some issues all around. I'd give it another try if I were you. But Ymmv.
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Post by mike on Aug 5, 2018 7:47:40 GMT -6
With pres, compressors and Mics all different flavors to mix and match depending on the source, it’s nice to have a UA hardware sound in the quiver with one of everything says my buying habits (while my billfold begs to differ) I haven’t listed it yet but have been thinking about selling my 6176 To raise needed funds. If you’re interested, p.m. me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 9:08:19 GMT -6
Chris Martin of Coldplay swears by it, but he also married Gwyneth Paltrow and she fell to pieces in the space of a week too...
Jeez it's just like me and my 6176, ahhhh..! I commited, it fell to pieces.
Thanks, again I remember really liking it at one point.. Might give it another go.
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Post by popmann on Aug 5, 2018 12:10:16 GMT -6
From memory, the LA610 is a different preamp circuit than the other 610 reissues. Manual says something about it being "voiced brighter" to match the "Darker" opto compressor.
I've just made this whole overdub record with it nearly exclusively. There were a few places I needed two mics, and one or both got the Millenia...but....most everything being a mono overdub, I thought it would be interesting to see what happens if I just use the one for everything--and one everyone claims is a "color" piece...and "not something I'd want on everything"....
Anyway....I think it's a lovely preamp. I have no experience with the rest of the series.
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 13:25:37 GMT -6
Post by ragan on Aug 5, 2018 13:25:37 GMT -6
I had an LA610 MKII for awhile. I liked it and miss it.
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 13:54:39 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Tbone81 on Aug 5, 2018 13:54:39 GMT -6
From memory, the LA610 is a different preamp circuit than the other 610 reissues. Manual says something about it being "voiced brighter" to match the "Darker" opto compressor. I've just made this whole overdub record with it nearly exclusively. There were a few places I needed two mics, and one or both got the Millenia...but....most everything being a mono overdub, I thought it would be interesting to see what happens if I just use the one for everything--and one everyone claims is a "color" piece...and "not something I'd want on everything".... Anyway....I think it's a lovely preamp. I have no experience with the rest of the series. Yes, I believe you're right about the LA610 being a little different than the other 610 iterations but to my understanding it's the same as the 6176...but I could very well be wrong. It's been a long time since I read up in it. Either way I think it's a great pre. I have aml 1073's and vp28's but i use my 610 more. Never understood why some people make claims about "stacking" and about how something could sound good but not stacked...I mean I understand that you can tailor the gear towards the individual sound your after for each instrument, but people really take that too far.
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 14:05:07 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 14:05:07 GMT -6
They only sell the expensive one here (6176), LA610 got dumped due to ROHS compliancy or something of the sort.. Again when I got the unit I was enamoured by it, probably the quietest tube pre-amp I've come across.. Had bags of gain, on +5 output my Senny MD441-U stuck around 4 on the knob and the pre-amp was rather quiet / clean at that point so I was seriously confused with the GS "experts" complaining about headroom and distortion.
The 1176 in it sounds better than any 1176 I've heard, it's a bit softer / smoother and not as "grabby" but still catches those fast transients.. It kinda does the LA-2A thing but because it catches peaks faster and with it being a FET you don't get that lazy counter balance of sharp / dark.. It ain't perfect and worked better in a 6176 / LA-2A setup but you didn't need to push either all that hard to get a nice balanced input avoiding EQ automations..
Then the limiter just packed in, like a gearbox stuck in first it'd only do bypass or whatever ratio it was stuck on.. You could go "ALL in" and it wouldn't make a difference to the sound, then the VU packed up (GR / Pre-amp everything didn't register), THEN lol! I started getting excessive hiss from the pre-amp.. It was being sold for under half the price of a new one, but it was from a reputable shop and it had a 3 month warranty.. Still it was too good to be true.
That 6176 was well and truly messed up. When I tested it last that's what stuck in my head more than how it originally sounded when I first got it..
Here's the thing, the 6176 has been used on so many records it's silly.. From Adele to <Insert famous person here>.! A lot of other people I knew that recorded rock said it was their go to chain for everything but electric g'itar..
I have ordered another one..! Still, I don't like messing about or throwing money away and I'd rather be safe rather than sorry.
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Post by ragan on Aug 5, 2018 14:10:13 GMT -6
From memory, the LA610 is a different preamp circuit than the other 610 reissues. Manual says something about it being "voiced brighter" to match the "Darker" opto compressor. I've just made this whole overdub record with it nearly exclusively. There were a few places I needed two mics, and one or both got the Millenia...but....most everything being a mono overdub, I thought it would be interesting to see what happens if I just use the one for everything--and one everyone claims is a "color" piece...and "not something I'd want on everything".... Anyway....I think it's a lovely preamp. I have no experience with the rest of the series. Yes, I believe you're right about the LA610 being a little different than the other 610 iterations but to my understanding it's the same as the 6176...but I could very well be wrong. It's been a long time since I read up in it. Either way I think it's a great pre. I have aml 1073's and vp28's but i use my 610 more. Never understood why some people make claims about "stacking" and about how something could sound good but not stacked...I mean I understand that you can tailor the gear towards the individual sound your after for each instrument, but people really take that too far. All the classic records we all look up to suffered from terrible Stacking issues, didn’t you know that? Using one [awesome sounding, classic analog] desk for the whole record? Blecchh! So glad we’ve gotten past that dark period.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 14:16:58 GMT -6
Yes, I believe you're right about the LA610 being a little different than the other 610 iterations but to my understanding it's the same as the 6176...but I could very well be wrong. It's been a long time since I read up in it. Either way I think it's a great pre. I have aml 1073's and vp28's but i use my 610 more. Never understood why some people make claims about "stacking" and about how something could sound good but not stacked...I mean I understand that you can tailor the gear towards the individual sound your after for each instrument, but people really take that too far. All the classic records we all look up to suffered from terrible Stacking issues, didn’t you know that? Using one [awesome sounding, classic analog] desk for the whole record? Blecchh! So glad we’ve gotten past that dark period.
Now we need a different pre-amp for every day of the week or we can't make decent sounding tracks (according to the GS recording tome's)..
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 14:26:52 GMT -6
Post by EmRR on Aug 5, 2018 14:26:52 GMT -6
I was seriously confused with the GS "experts" complaining about headroom and distortion. 1) cause they feed it from a high output modern condenser 2) they've been told input pads are bad. Don't do #1, and you might not need #2. So that's two things they're doing wrong. You aren't having that problem!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2018 15:16:41 GMT -6
I was seriously confused with the GS "experts" complaining about headroom and distortion. 1) cause they feed it from a high output modern condenser 2) they've been told input pads are bad. Don't do #1, and you might not need #2. So that's two things they're doing wrong. You aren't having that problem!
Yup, with the audio industry in the state it's becoming harder to find what you want so I spend a lot of time looking at GS.. Whilst there is some cool stuff there's also soo much BS.! I don't like shopping / selling audio gear at the best of times, it's a slow process with pitfalls (especially because I'm so fussy).
GS doesn't make it easy, for every person that says it sounds round / huge etc. someone else will come in two seconds after saying it sounds thin and small. On a lot of occasions I ain't convinced they've seen the damn thing in person, let alone know what to do with it even if they did have it.
Meh, this time round once I'm done.. I'm dooooonne..!
You guys and gals rock though.. A lot of talent / skill and knowledge on this board.
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Post by Ward on Aug 5, 2018 19:15:33 GMT -6
Never owned one but had a few fellas bring theirs into my studio on occasions, and results were mixed. It has a sweet spot that, once in there, makes it sound like it's made out of unobtainium. Hard to find that sweet spot sometimes, but it's there!
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 22:09:42 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by the other mark williams on Aug 5, 2018 22:09:42 GMT -6
I sold my 6176 about three weeks ago. I do not miss it.
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 22:16:29 GMT -6
Post by jampa on Aug 5, 2018 22:16:29 GMT -6
So YOU sold it to shadow?
Just jokes!
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UA 6176
Aug 5, 2018 23:45:56 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by the other mark williams on Aug 5, 2018 23:45:56 GMT -6
So YOU sold it to shadow? Just jokes! Ha! No, that wasn't me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 0:12:51 GMT -6
I sold my 6176 about three weeks ago. I do not miss it. What didn't you like about it? My other option is an AEA R whatever pre-amp, because it has tons of decent gain and the new Royer R10 sounds amaaazing..! Just need some sort of FET comp in between that and the LA-2A / SA - 2A..
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UA 6176
Aug 6, 2018 11:04:03 GMT -6
Post by popmann on Aug 6, 2018 11:04:03 GMT -6
I sold my 6176 about three weeks ago. I do not miss it. What didn't you like about it? My other option is an AEA R whatever pre-amp, because it has tons of decent gain and the new Royer R10 sounds amaaazing..! Just need some sort of FET comp in between that and the LA-2A / SA - 2A.. If only they had made a compressor with the LA action but a solid state transformer IO amp like a 76 in the 70s at some point...
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UA 6176
Aug 6, 2018 11:17:20 GMT -6
Post by Ward on Aug 6, 2018 11:17:20 GMT -6
You know, it's hard to get what you want with an "all in one"
It might be better to get the best preamp/EQ for you, then the best "ride the waves comp" like an LA2a OPTO CL1b or Neve , and end the chain with the right "Brick wall limiter" such as an 1176FET, VCA like a dvx or Focusrite, or a Transient Designer even,
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UA 6176
Aug 6, 2018 11:59:24 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 11:59:24 GMT -6
You know, it's hard to get what you want with an "all in one" It might be better to get the best preamp/EQ for you, then the best "ride the waves comp" like an LA2a OPTO CL1b or Neve , and end the chain with the right "Brick wall limiter" such as an 1176FET, VCA like a dvx or Focusrite, or a Transient Designer even,
Yep, I'm mellowing from the days of thrash metal so my preferences continously evolved.. Glad I stuck around these forums a little bit because I'm getting a taste for what I'm after.. In the Holy Grail thread the vid with two KM184's / AEA on vox w/ minimal processing sounds great..
Also found this (below) on my search for the Royer, it's just tracked through a Focusrite Clarett 8 with some good old ribbons and for me it's one of the best recordings (actually scratch that, I should say more natural) I've come across in a while.
So, I've got two options a single 6176 or for a little more I could get a Focusrite ISA 2 (80dB gain) a Drawmer 1968MK2 (been after a good stereo bus comp for a while) plus a stereo pair of Royer R-10's.. Which would be nice on cab's and steel acoustics, not an easy decision because for all intents and purposes they are both great..
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UA 6176
Aug 6, 2018 13:54:36 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by Tbone81 on Aug 6, 2018 13:54:36 GMT -6
I had an ISA 220 and while I can't say anything bad about the pre, it never excited me at all. And it didn't sound like the ISA console it was based on. For a long time I only had the ISA and my 610, and the 610 buried it in the tone department. If you're looking for clean gain I'd check out the AEA TRP pres, those are supposed to be pretty nice.
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Post by the other mark williams on Aug 6, 2018 13:57:26 GMT -6
I sold my 6176 about three weeks ago. I do not miss it. What didn't you like about it? My other option is an AEA R whatever pre-amp, because it has tons of decent gain and the new Royer R10 sounds amaaazing..! Just need some sort of FET comp in between that and the LA-2A / SA - 2A.. Good question. I had owned it for several years, and a couple things happened at various points during my ownership. First, the 1176 got affordably cloned by several manufacturers (Warm, Hairball, Stam, Audioscape, etc., etc.). One can now purchase an 1176 of one flavor or another for not a lot of coin. Secondly, I got a Stam 1073MPA, which I like better as a pre than the 610. But there are other reasons that gradually showed themselves over my time of ownership, as well. For instance, I never liked the way the 1176 section was laid out on the 6176. I'm just so used to the traditional 1176 layout that I found the 6176 layout cumbersome, and hence, I didn't use it as much as I would've liked. I also was just never thrilled with the 610 preamp. I found the low end to be a bit loose and undefined, and the top end did not impart the subtle sparkle and harmonics I like to get out of a tube pre. I thought the unit as a whole would be kickass on bass, but I never really ended up loving it there. Again, the low end wasn't as tight as I would like (and at the same time not as thunderous as a Sowter-equipped Neve variant like the 1073MPA or the Great River). It was just kind of cloudy to me. Now, one man's "cloudy" is another man's "warm," so take what I'm saying with a few grains of salt. But just to further the discussion for you, I wanted to mention that while I haven't used one of the AEA preamps, it seems a little odd to compare that with the 610. Those seem like totally different worlds to me. Either world could be totally viable, and you wouldn't be wrong to love either of those, but they just seem like very different pieces, and by necessity, very different choices. And I've also been interested to hear the R10 in person. I haven't actually liked it in any of the online "shootouts" I've heard. But of course online (YouTube) listening can be deceptive. I was hoping to really dig it, but I actually might have preferred the Fat Head in the various comparisons I've seen. Again, YMMV and all that. You're in an exciting place, it sounds like! Try to enjoy it!
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UA 6176
Aug 6, 2018 16:33:00 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2018 16:33:00 GMT -6
What didn't you like about it? My other option is an AEA R whatever pre-amp, because it has tons of decent gain and the new Royer R10 sounds amaaazing..! Just need some sort of FET comp in between that and the LA-2A / SA - 2A.. Good question. I had owned it for several years, and a couple things happened at various points during my ownership. First, the 1176 got affordably cloned by several manufacturers (Warm, Hairball, Stam, Audioscape, etc., etc.). One can now purchase an 1176 of one flavor or another for not a lot of coin. Secondly, I got a Stam 1073MPA, which I like better as a pre than the 610. But there are other reasons that gradually showed themselves over my time of ownership, as well. For instance, I never liked the way the 1176 section was laid out on the 6176. I'm just so used to the traditional 1176 layout that I found the 6176 layout cumbersome, and hence, I didn't use it as much as I would've liked. I also was just never thrilled with the 610 preamp. I found the low end to be a bit loose and undefined, and the top end did not impart the subtle sparkle and harmonics I like to get out of a tube pre. I thought the unit as a whole would be kickass on bass, but I never really ended up loving it there. Again, the low end wasn't as tight as I would like (and at the same time not as thunderous as a Sowter-equipped Neve variant like the 1073MPA or the Great River). It was just kind of cloudy to me. Now, one man's "cloudy" is another man's "warm," so take what I'm saying with a few grains of salt. But just to further the discussion for you, I wanted to mention that while I haven't used one of the AEA preamps, it seems a little odd to compare that with the 610. Those seem like totally different worlds to me. Either world could be totally viable, and you wouldn't be wrong to love either of those, but they just seem like very different pieces, and by necessity, very different choices. And I've also been interested to hear the R10 in person. I haven't actually liked it in any of the online "shootouts" I've heard. But of course online (YouTube) listening can be deceptive. I was hoping to really dig it, but I actually might have preferred the Fat Head in the various comparisons I've seen. Again, YMMV and all that. You're in an exciting place, it sounds like! Try to enjoy it!
This is a great discussion, really appreciate yours (and everyone's) insight.. Like a lot of things in audio we're talking small incremental gains, the differences between my MOTU pre-amps (which are relatively well balanced) and an API / 610 / Neve / DBX etc. isn't massive, certainly not enough for me to make or break a record.
Although I'm not saying there aren't differences or that it doesn't matter at all, engineering is an artform and an obsession so we sum the incremental gains into a better holistic product.. Again that video I posted was done with equipment most of us would shun, but it sounds pretty damn good especially compared to what I hear coming from some producers with a Neve or SSL LFAC in front of them.
I have a point here somewhere, oh yeah.! I think most of us agree a mic will make a far bigger impact than any pre-amp (unless it's really bad), so the question isn't really 6176 vs. AEA it's ribbon vs. condenser.. Take the Neumann TLM's for example, especially the 103 because I can only stand that mic in a LA-610MK2 chain. The darker more saturated pre-amp with a dark LA-2A style comp smooths out it's crappy grit characteristics and it also removes the icepick element. I think a lot of bright modern condensers would benefit from the 6176 or LA-610 on vox and g'itar cabs especially..
If I do start going into a more "live" / natural sounding recordings with ribbons, the Royer (whichever one) will impart more of a vintage vibe than a 6176 would and the last thing you need is more of it in a chain. There is such a thing as too much sugar, also tube pre-amps / noise / ribbons are not a great combo..
If I skip the 6176 I could easily afford a Royer R-121, one of the best ribbon mic's out there so that's something to consider.. It could be time for a change and a paradigm shift, it'll be interesting for sure. I have used ribbons on cabs, but never for a full setup..
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Post by Tbone81 on Aug 6, 2018 20:52:17 GMT -6
I think you'd get more mileage out of mics rather than the pre. Personally I wished I'd spent all these years buying awesome mics instead of all my pres. Up until recently though buying preamps was more fun. Then I stepped into the light and learned the error of my ways, lol.
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