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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 9, 2018 9:31:05 GMT -6
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 9, 2018 9:39:49 GMT -6
So are these the same 9038 chips in the Pro-Ject DA? jeromemason
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 14,961
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Post by ericn on Jul 9, 2018 9:54:42 GMT -6
So are these the same 9038 chips in the Pro-Ject DA? jeromemasonSame Chip but they use it differently, so not quite the same tone.
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Post by michaelcleary on Jul 10, 2018 9:22:59 GMT -6
Love it. Only negative is the need to connect ethernet when updating so I have never updated it. Never any issues even without updates.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 10, 2018 12:58:46 GMT -6
So are these the same 9038 chips in the Pro-Ject DA? jeromemason Actually the MOTU 16a and the Apogee Symphony MK1 and MK2 use older generations of the Sabre chip. The 16a uses the 9016 and the Symphony MK1 uses the same and the MK2 uses the 9018 I believe. It’s still the hyperstream technology..... but the 9038 is 2 generations newer and it has some features that allow the designer to reduce distortion and noise by a bit. They do sound much better as well, much more detailed and strong in the low-end to my ears. The S2 uses these in parallel mono blocks, the 16a and Symphony utilize the chips each output, so if you’re using either one to monitor with you’re missing out on a lot of detail that the design of the S2 unleashes. Also when it comes to headphones, the S2 uses ESS’ amp and it drives any pair of HP’s out there with some serious high/low end detail. Never have I heard my Ultrasones sound like their claim, which is to sound as though you’re listening to a pair of monitors. The S2 is truly what I’d call a magic box..... mainly because they must of used magic to cram all that quality in such a small box for under $400. Truly remarkable.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2018 16:10:33 GMT -6
So is the new 828es using the 9038 chip?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 14, 2018 16:13:24 GMT -6
@jerome I thought the Symph mkii had some extra converter sauce in its headphone outs ?
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Post by Guitar on Jul 14, 2018 16:17:28 GMT -6
So is the new 828es using the 9038 chip? Same as the "flagship" 1248 You can read details at motu.com
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Post by indiehouse on Jul 14, 2018 16:39:08 GMT -6
So is the new 828es using the 9038 chip? Same as the 16a. ESS Sabre32
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 14, 2018 17:24:32 GMT -6
Well it’s a different chip...9016 I thought. A little older than the 9038. I’m not obsessing - I mean, I probably couldn’t tell the difference...but I thought the 828es was using the 9038s.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 14, 2018 19:55:04 GMT -6
I haven’t checked but I’m sure it’s the ES9016.
I’m really hoping they will make a next gen soon that uses the 9038’s but 4chanels per chip. That would increase cost, but the specs would def improve and the D/A side would be pretty damn incredible.
The AKM5397’s in the A/D side would be killer too. The Symphony has the 5397 I believe, I’m not sure what the MOTU is using in the A/D side.
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Post by Quint on Jul 15, 2018 6:44:09 GMT -6
So are these the same 9038 chips in the Pro-Ject DA? jeromemason Actually the MOTU 16a and the Apogee Symphony MK1 and MK2 use older generations of the Sabre chip. The 16a uses the 9016 and the Symphony MK1 uses the same and the MK2 uses the 9018 I believe. It’s still the hyperstream technology..... but the 9038 is 2 generations newer and it has some features that allow the designer to reduce distortion and noise by a bit. They do sound much better as well, much more detailed and strong in the low-end to my ears. The S2 uses these in parallel mono blocks, the 16a and Symphony utilize the chips each output, so if you’re using either one to monitor with you’re missing out on a lot of detail that the design of the S2 unleashes. Also when it comes to headphones, the S2 uses ESS’ amp and it drives any pair of HP’s out there with some serious high/low end detail. Never have I heard my Ultrasones sound like their claim, which is to sound as though you’re listening to a pair of monitors. The S2 is truly what I’d call a magic box..... mainly because they must of used magic to cram all that quality in such a small box for under $400. Truly remarkable. What is the S2?
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Post by Guitar on Jul 15, 2018 6:48:56 GMT -6
Actually the MOTU 16a and the Apogee Symphony MK1 and MK2 use older generations of the Sabre chip. The 16a uses the 9016 and the Symphony MK1 uses the same and the MK2 uses the 9018 I believe. It’s still the hyperstream technology..... but the 9038 is 2 generations newer and it has some features that allow the designer to reduce distortion and noise by a bit. They do sound much better as well, much more detailed and strong in the low-end to my ears. The S2 uses these in parallel mono blocks, the 16a and Symphony utilize the chips each output, so if you’re using either one to monitor with you’re missing out on a lot of detail that the design of the S2 unleashes. Also when it comes to headphones, the S2 uses ESS’ amp and it drives any pair of HP’s out there with some serious high/low end detail. Never have I heard my Ultrasones sound like their claim, which is to sound as though you’re listening to a pair of monitors. The S2 is truly what I’d call a magic box..... mainly because they must of used magic to cram all that quality in such a small box for under $400. Truly remarkable. What is the S2? www.realgearonline.com/thread/8726/ject-digital-9038-chip-impressions
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 15, 2018 8:45:54 GMT -6
I haven’t checked but I’m sure it’s the ES9016. I’m really hoping they will make a next gen soon that uses the 9038’s but 4chanels per chip. That would increase cost, but the specs would def improve and the D/A side would be pretty damn incredible. The AKM5397’s in the A/D side would be killer too. The Symphony has the 5397 I believe, I’m not sure what the MOTU is using in the A/D side. We haven’t really talked about the AD side. Wonder how it compares?
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Post by Guitar on Jul 15, 2018 8:53:35 GMT -6
I just looked up my Presonus Quantum it's got AK5574EN 121dB 768kHz/32-bit 4ch ADC
and AK4413EQ 120dB 192kHz 24-Bit 4ch DAC
I looked up the Symphony but I couldn't find the info.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jul 15, 2018 16:19:37 GMT -6
Id go for the OrionHD. You just plug in the HD Ports into your PTHD Native interface card. No USB needed. ITs made to work with Avid and I haven't read anything bad about the OrionHD. 32x32 in 1U is super appealing to me, that what Im hoping to upgrade too.
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Post by LesC on Jul 15, 2018 17:36:48 GMT -6
I just looked up my Presonus Quantum it's got AK5574EN 121dB 768kHz/32-bit 4ch ADC and AK4413EQ 120dB 192kHz 24-Bit 4ch DAC I looked up the Symphony but I couldn't find the info. That's interesting, my RME ADI-2 Pro uses an AK5574 ADC and two AK4490 DACs. It would be interesting to know how the various AK and Sabre chips compare.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 16, 2018 1:40:57 GMT -6
AKM on the A/D side is similar to how loved the ESS Sabre is on the DAC side of things. They keep rolling out new technology with extremely impressive specs. They call the chips you're speaking of "Velvet Sound" so it's similar to how ESS names their chips with Hyperstream and Burr Brown with Precsion.
The new AKM chips have the ultra high sample rates, 32bit and are reaching up to 124db in dynamic range. It's pretty crazy to think that in just a few years there's no telling what those specs will be, also the ability to setup the chips in parallel configs etc. Seems like the companies building the converters wait a while until they feel the newest generation chip will be relevant for some time. This is the reason why I'd love to get into building a modular design A/D, both multi channel and for the mix buss, that houses just the conversion. In this way all of the surrounding amps and I/O don't have to be changed, once could simply design a new "conversion block" to replace when the newest chip comes out.
I'm not sure if Motu would tell what chips they're using on the A/D side, an email asking might get the answer quickly, but companies like Lavry won't divulge what they're using under the hood or how they're using it. I'd have to imagine Motu is using the same AKM chips Apogee is using, they really did design that converter to be nearly equal in component quality without all the fluff and Apogee name value.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jul 16, 2018 6:07:30 GMT -6
One interesting thing about the specs above is, if you compare them to the new apogee 2x6 mastering module, which seems a little better: wonder what's inside it ?
Maybe mikec can pop the top and takes a pic ?
Highest Quality Apogee AD/DA converter
A/D = 124dB (A) dynamic range, -116dB THD+N
D/A = 131dB (A) dynamic range, -118dB THD+N
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Post by matt on Jul 16, 2018 8:58:44 GMT -6
ultra high sample rates, 32bit and are reaching up to 124db in dynamic range. It's pretty crazy to think that in just a few years there's no telling what those specs will be I wonder if there's a practical limit, somewhere in the 130s, with around 140 as a ceiling. Which means, Apogee and Antelope are pushing into this range already, and that the focus on increasing fidelity may shift to something different than chasing dynamic range. Clocking seems pretty advanced to me, so I'm thinking of the rest of the supporting circuitry, such as it may be.
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Post by matt on Jul 16, 2018 9:30:41 GMT -6
Id go for the OrionHD. You just plug in the HD Ports into your PTHD Native interface card. No USB needed. ITs made to work with Avid and I haven't read anything bad about the OrionHD There's a thread over on the Purple site where some users are saying that the Orion 32 HD is not sample accurate at 96K when using Pro Tools hardware inserts on both HD Native and HDX. If true for the 32 HD in general, it's a shame because I would include Antelope as a hardware option for my imminent move to HDX due to it's widely praised audio quality. But Antelope users cite flakey behavior (hangs, not connecting at startup, etc) requiring reboots and more (config resets, etc). Some say that firmware updates can be risky as well. Of course I'm sure there are many people who have no issues -I own and use a Pure2 every day for my primary 2-track AD/DA, it's fantastic- but reliability on the hardware side is critical for me. And there's a consistency to the complaints suggesting that Antelope has work to do. In fairness, the only specific issue relating to the Orion 32 HD I've seen is the hardware insert compensation thing. But this is a big deal for me, since that is how I plan to use it. Just to be clear, I am not Antelope-bashing out of personal experience. The Pure2 replaced a pair of Burl Bombers, which are now collecting dust. If there were no public accounts of consistent reliability issues, I would buy two Orion 32 HDs and carry on. Or invest in Motu if they made a Digilink interface. Instead, I'm looking at used Avid HD I/O, which just works. Enough said.
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Post by drbill on Jul 16, 2018 9:52:11 GMT -6
Two 16As run $3K USD. Antelope 32+ or HD are similarly priced! Matt - you can get a pair of new 16X16 HD AVID Interfaces for just a few hundred more. I love the way they sound, and from my perspective running PT since v.2, you can't go wrong using Digi/Avid's own interfaces as opposed to 3rd party interfaces. They almost always "work" better. Sonics are an individual choice and open for discussion.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 16, 2018 12:11:49 GMT -6
I'm pretty certain this is the chip used in the Symphony.... AKM Chip
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 16, 2018 14:50:16 GMT -6
Id go for the OrionHD. You just plug in the HD Ports into your PTHD Native interface card. No USB needed. ITs made to work with Avid and I haven't read anything bad about the OrionHD There's a thread over on the Purple site where some users are saying that the Orion 32 HD is not sample accurate at 96K when using Pro Tools hardware inserts on both HD Native and HDX. If true for the 32 HD in general, it's a shame because I would include Antelope as a hardware option for my imminent move to HDX due to it's widely praised audio quality. But Antelope users cite flakey behavior (hangs, not connecting at startup, etc) requiring reboots and more (config resets, etc). Some say that firmware updates can be risky as well. Of course I'm sure there are many people who have no issues -I own and use a Pure2 every day for my primary 2-track AD/DA, it's fantastic- but reliability on the hardware side is critical for me. And there's a consistency to the complaints suggesting that Antelope has work to do. In fairness, the only specific issue relating to the Orion 32 HD I've seen is the hardware insert compensation thing. But this is a big deal for me, since that is how I plan to use it. Just to be clear, I am not Antelope-bashing out of personal experience. The Pure2 replaced a pair of Burl Bombers, which are now collecting dust. If there were no public accounts of consistent reliability issues, I would buy two Orion 32 HDs and carry on. Or invest in Motu if they made a Digilink interface. Instead, I'm looking at used Avid HD I/O, which just works. Enough said. Feel free to mail the Burls to me to hold on to. I'll keep them dusted until you need them back. 😁😁😁
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 16, 2018 15:05:08 GMT -6
The Pure2 replaced a pair of Burl Bombers, How does the Pure2 DAC and ADC sound? I use the Satori for my monitoring and summing and that box is gold. Antelope is extremely gifted at building insanely clean and detail preserving electronics.... I had looked at that Pure2 for a while but decided to go with Lavry, but have you ever tried pushing it on the A/D side and how does the D/A sound?
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