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Post by johneppstein on May 31, 2018 16:17:38 GMT -6
Not yet. will have to watch them carefully. |
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Post by svart on May 31, 2018 18:10:04 GMT -6
I had a "discussion" with one of my more socialist friends, and was forced to go "look up" the upward mobility thing since he also claimed that it was completely false.. So not one to back down, I did go "look it up" and there's actually plenty of pol-sci papers that have shown the median of each class has inched upwards in monetary class. I also don't believe that money is "worth" something different than it's worth at the here-and-now. What's different is our expectation of what that money can obtain. People's memories get burned into their psyche and they forget that times change. Hell, everytime I take my 94 year old grandfather out for lunch he insists on leaving a tip.. Typically 50 cents to a dollar on 20$ worth of food.. Because he still lives in the 60's in his mind and tip is like 5% to him. One of the other things he's always been fond of believing is that cars only last 50K miles like they did back in the mid century, so he used to change out his car every 50K on the nose... On that note, cars don't cost more because money is worth less, They last longer, and are therefor worth more! If a car doesn't last 150K now it's a piece of shit.. Nevermind that they generally cost more because the gov mandated more safety features, so comparing the cost of a 60's sedan with no AC or airbags to a 2010's sedan with full 5 star crash ratings and a heated steering wheel isn't the best apples-to-apples comparison people can make. There's always a rational explanation why money "doesn't go as far these days" but nobody wants to hear that we simply live in a throw-away society with overhead costs that seem minuscule at any single point in time but add up over time. Let's put it this way - whern I first moved into SF proper in the early '80s I could buy an absolutely killer Carnitas Super Burrito for a buck. I practically lived on them. Today a comparable burrito will run you around 10 bucks. To me that means that a buck now is worth about 10 cents then. You can argue and quote stupid "papers" by academics wih an axe to grind all you want, but my stomach and my wallet tell me that practically speaking my money is worth 1/10 of what it was then. Prices of guitars track closely. Cost of rent and real estate is worse. My rent in 1980 was $200/month. When I left San Fransisco it was six thousand.
Cars? Are you kidding me? My dad bought his '57 DeSoto Fireflight as an "executive's car" (used by a manager at the dealer) in '58 and drove it to and from our summer place in Maine, 3,300 miles from Oklahoma, every year until he retired in '70 or '71. IIRC it had well over 350,000 miles on it. He had the engine (a Hemi, 344.6 cu in, 345 HP) redone ONCE in that time. I don't know what he paid for it but I'm absolutely certain that it was a small percentage of the cost of my Prius.( EDIT: Just looked it up. It would have been about $4,000. loaded, minus his discount as an "executive car". My Prius was over 40 grand.) Power steering, power brakes, AC, power seat, push button transmission, 4 barrel carb and duals, second largest trunk ever on an American car (behind the Ford hardtop convertible, which used its trunk to store the top), Top of the line DeSoto, almost as expensive as a Chrystler Imperial. Could hold as much stuff as a modern mini-van, maybe more. Dual headlight option. A compartable car today? They don't make one,. but I guess a E class Mercedes would be about right. He kept that car until he died in the mid-80s.
Cars these days are junk that falls apart. Lotsa bells and whistles, flimsy build. They don't even make steel bumpers now, just cheap plastic - unless you have to replace one, then it's very expensive plastic. They brag about how cars are safe because they crumple to protect the passenger compartment but back then cars were steel and they didn't bend.
I had tacos for lunch. 1.29$ per taco. Burritos are 4.50 here too. Also, my mortgage is 650$ for 1200sqft.. that includes escrow for insurance and property taxes.. I'd say it's just where you live and not the norm for your ridiculous rent situation. |
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Post by johneppstein on May 31, 2018 20:22:12 GMT -6
Let's put it this way - whern I first moved into SF proper in the early '80s I could buy an absolutely killer Carnitas Super Burrito for a buck. I practically lived on them. Today a comparable burrito will run you around 10 bucks. To me that means that a buck now is worth about 10 cents then. You can argue and quote stupid "papers" by academics wih an axe to grind all you want, but my stomach and my wallet tell me that practically speaking my money is worth 1/10 of what it was then. Prices of guitars track closely. Cost of rent and real estate is worse. My rent in 1980 was $200/month. When I left San Fransisco it was six thousand.
Cars? Are you kidding me? My dad bought his '57 DeSoto Fireflight as an "executive's car" (used by a manager at the dealer) in '58 and drove it to and from our summer place in Maine, 3,300 miles from Oklahoma, every year until he retired in '70 or '71. IIRC it had well over 350,000 miles on it. He had the engine (a Hemi, 344.6 cu in, 345 HP) redone ONCE in that time. I don't know what he paid for it but I'm absolutely certain that it was a small percentage of the cost of my Prius.( EDIT: Just looked it up. It would have been about $4,000. loaded, minus his discount as an "executive car". My Prius was over 40 grand.) Power steering, power brakes, AC, power seat, push button transmission, 4 barrel carb and duals, second largest trunk ever on an American car (behind the Ford hardtop convertible, which used its trunk to store the top), Top of the line DeSoto, almost as expensive as a Chrystler Imperial. Could hold as much stuff as a modern mini-van, maybe more. Dual headlight option. A compartable car today? They don't make one,. but I guess a E class Mercedes would be about right. He kept that car until he died in the mid-80s.
Cars these days are junk that falls apart. Lotsa bells and whistles, flimsy build. They don't even make steel bumpers now, just cheap plastic - unless you have to replace one, then it's very expensive plastic. They brag about how cars are safe because they crumple to protect the passenger compartment but back then cars were steel and they didn't bend.
I had tacos for lunch. 1.29$ per taco. Burritos are 4.50 here too. Also, my mortgage is 650$ for 1200sqft.. that includes escrow for insurance and property taxes.. I'd say it's just where you live and not the norm for your ridiculous rent situation. Canary in the coal mine, my friend.... canary in the coal mine.
And I'll bet that our burritos are better. It is possible to find a very basic burrito for 5 bucks in SF - but they suck. Or you can go to Taco Bell. And I would bet that within 56 years your $5 burrito will be $10. Some parts of the country are just behind other parts.
Up where I am now in Fairfield, which is a blue collar community, you can get a $5 burrito but it isn't one I'd really want. You can get a decent one for maybe $8. And Fairfield is full of Mexicans.
The thing is that although Fairfield is cheaper than SF, most of the guys I know here who are not attached to the airbase have to commute to Oakland, SF, or farther for work every day in their trucks - about an hour and a half - 2 hours each way during rush hour. You have to figure in things like transportation expenses and most of those "studies" conveniently ignore that little detail.
When I visited Nashville looking for a house property prices seemed about 5 years behind SF. I hear that Austin's getting pretty bad - and I couldn't take the weather there.
I almost moved to Nashville, but there's zero public transit, it's as spread out as Oklahoma City if not more, and there's no health care. The health care alone is a deal breaker.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 1, 2018 19:50:42 GMT -6
Been there a long time ago.
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Post by johneppstein on Jun 1, 2018 19:58:51 GMT -6
I had tacos for lunch. 1.29$ per taco. Burritos are 4.50 here too. Also, my mortgage is 650$ for 1200sqft.. that includes escrow for insurance and property taxes.. I'd say it's just where you live and not the norm for your ridiculous rent situation. Canary in the coal mine, my friend.... canary in the coal mine.
And I'll bet that our burritos are better. It is possible to find a very basic burrito for 5 bucks in SF - but they suck. Or you can go to Taco Bell. And I would bet that within 56 years your $5 burrito will be $10. Some parts of the country are just behind other parts.
Up where I am now in Fairfield, which is a blue collar community, you can get a $5 burrito but it isn't one I'd really want. You can get a decent one for maybe $8. And Fairfield is full of Mexicans.
The thing is that although Fairfield is cheaper than SF, most of the guys I know here who are not attached to the airbase have to commute to Oakland, SF, or farther for work every day in their trucks - about an hour and a half - 2 hours each way during rush hour. You have to figure in things like transportation expenses and most of those "studies" conveniently ignore that little detail.
When I visited Nashville looking for a house property prices seemed about 5 years behind SF. I hear that Austin's getting pretty bad - and I couldn't take the weather there.
I almost moved to Nashville, but there's zero public transit, it's as spread out as Oklahoma City if not more, and there's no health care. The health care alone is a deal breaker.
It occurs to me that either you're missing or deliberately ignoring the point, which is tha although they claim that more people are "joining the privileged class" the reality is that they're not, because in the areas, like SF and NYC, where the average number of "dollars" being paid is greater, the real worth of those "dollars" is much less.
Maybe you can get a $5 burrito (which, I might point out, is still 5 times as much as a $1 burrito) - but where you live the minimum wage is 50% of what it is in SF.
The fact is, the average income of most citizens buys less. You can manipulate figures till you're blue in the face but truth is truth.
The claim that more people are joining the "privileged class" is, to put it bluntly, a baldfaced lie. I'm not blaming you, but you need to examine the facts more carefully.
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Post by christopher on Jun 4, 2018 10:18:14 GMT -6
Well when an old rich fart dies, he divides his fortune through his kids. So 1 rich dude turns into four or five rich dudes... ITS WORKING! lol
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Post by christopher on Jun 4, 2018 11:36:03 GMT -6
Really I just wanted to say I feel your pain John, here in Santa Rosa the best burritos are in the $10-$14 range. I did find a few places in the $8 range where they are pretty good, but I have to drive across town and they don't beat the more expensive ones. Rent here has become insane. I've been thinking of selling our house and cashing in while its high, but then where would we live? Rent is around 3500-4000 for a standard 2500-ish square foot house. The jobs are still sub $20hr, most openings I see are in the $12 hr range. Last week I got sent a job opening from a temp agency "Earn UP TO $11 hourly!". As someone who was raised in Modesto, I recognize this pattern. The houses out there aren't worth anything, until the commuters show up. They drive prices up like crazy for a few years. Then they all burnout from those 6 hour/day commutes and driving expenses, they ask for more money, the silicon wallets close, everyone gets laid off, the silicon transplants move back to wherever, and housing collapses. Its possible things might continue to go up further, but not without wages going up. Its just nuts right now.
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