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Post by indiehouse on Jan 9, 2018 20:49:20 GMT -6
Taking a hard look at this mic. Does this sound right? Are they supposed to sound this way? The files with some EQ and Zulu treatment are way better than just straight mic. BTW, it's just me yammering "Check, check" in the mic. The files with EQ and Zulu were with a DIYRE Pultec. The file with EQ/Zulu but without the linear mod was boosted almost fullly open at 10k. And a little low end cut at 60hz. plus a few clicks of Zulu enhance, which tends to make things shiny (in a good way). The linear mod needed way less 10k and no enhance. And no low cut. MKU67
MKU67 with EQ/ZuluMKU67 Linear Mod with EQ/Zulu As an update, I reached out to Max with some samples. He came back at first and said it sounded a little muffled. He asked for additional samples, including another mic for reference comparison. After listening, he said it sounded correct. I should mention that the initial samples had a Bowie sourced Telefunken EF86, vs the stock PF86. So last night I threw up a Warbler MKID alongside the MK67, as it's the closest mic I have to that K67 sound. I also recorded a bit with the stock PF86 and then again with the EF86. MK67 Stock PF86Warbler MKIDMK67 EF86
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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 9, 2018 22:01:09 GMT -6
It’s just a little dark. I had the MK67 for a while and tested it against a bunch of Mics on several voices. When I finally got it next to a real, in shape, un Modded U67 I found it lacked some clarity in the top end and had more beef in the bottom. I used to add a shelf on the MK67 at 9 -10k of 2+ db. Feel free to listen to an operatic take. I have a crooning take too. I just need to bounce it later and add it to the folder. www.dropbox.com/sh/omwts73ex037s20/AACFYcvsTXoFo943kdz42IyUa?dl=0Just my two cents. Sad I never got a trumpet in front of it while I had it.
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Post by guitfiddler on Jan 10, 2018 0:55:33 GMT -6
I haven’t tried it with the zulu, but it is a great sounding mic and I really like it. Just searching for an EQ now. It just needs the right preamp and a little eq to get it where I like it. Thanks Vincent!
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Post by spindrift on Jan 10, 2018 1:02:46 GMT -6
Your mic check dialogues sound exactly like mine! 😂
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2018 8:38:01 GMT -6
First file sounds pretty close to mine. The others are sibilant, so the boost seems to be getting too low in frequency. I can't imagine using Max's linear mod on a voice, maybe on a drum room mic, or a dark acoustic bass, cello, etc.
Really, I'm gonna finish and share my mod to bring some top back......really.....I don't want to throw it out there and then change it again a week later......
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2018 13:54:21 GMT -6
Sounds dark as shit. Nothing but mid frequencies. Third one sounds the best to me, but I wouldn't be happy with any of those.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2018 13:54:41 GMT -6
Sounds very similar to the TLM67...muffled.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 10, 2018 13:55:43 GMT -6
Sounds dark as shit. Nothing but mid frequencies. Third one sounds the best to me, but I wouldn't be happy with any of those. That's kinda where I'm at.
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Post by drbill on Jan 10, 2018 14:05:12 GMT -6
Didn't listen yet, but the UNmodded vintage 67's are dark, yet open. A contradiction in terms but a beautiful contradiction. Such a bizarre paradox.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 10, 2018 14:07:14 GMT -6
Sounds dark as shit. Nothing but mid frequencies. Third one sounds the best to me, but I wouldn't be happy with any of those. That's kinda where I'm at. No offense intended...but sometimes these mods people rave about can be complete busts...I really, really believe it's all about having a quality capsule, sputtered correctly, and the "tuned" (avoid the glued M7) by someone that knows what they're doing. Do that in an environment that you are familiar with - because it can be sucky, sucky, sucky, oh wait, keep going...OMG. I guess what I'm saying is that it's a process. Unfortunately, there are only so many people that know what they're doing twisting screws, changing capicitance, etc...and it's still kinda voodoo even for them...but I swear to goodness that it's still the best option in real world costs. I actually thought the Tele 251 was bright (there was one with a vintage ck12 and AC701 that was unbelievable, though)...thought the Telefunken U47 sounded pretty damn good. But why would I pay that much money for components and a body? Well, I know why...because it's marketing. I want it like I want a new loaded Land Rover over a loaded 4Runner.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 10, 2018 14:25:45 GMT -6
Didn't listen yet, but the UNmodded vintage 67's are dark, yet open. A contradiction in terms but a beautiful contradiction. Such a bizarre paradox. Should I be scared that I know exactly what you mean and was unconsciously nodding as I read your post!😎
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2018 14:28:33 GMT -6
Sounds very similar to the TLM67...muffled. Well, I put the TLM67 electronics back in and they sound positively bright in comparison, and flatter than a U87 or u87AI.
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Post by drbill on Jan 10, 2018 14:34:11 GMT -6
Didn't listen yet, but the UNmodded vintage 67's are dark, yet open. A contradiction in terms but a beautiful contradiction. Such a bizarre paradox. Should I be scared that I know exactly what you mean and was unconsciously nodding as I read your post!😎 hahaha!!! Nah...it's only people who have never used a well maintained unmodded vintage one that thinks they are just dark for dark's sake. The reality is there is also a beautiful "open-ness" to them. Never bright, but rarely murky either.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 10, 2018 14:36:54 GMT -6
Should I be scared that I know exactly what you mean and was unconsciously nodding as I read your post!😎 hahaha!!! Nah...it's only people who have never used a well maintained unmodded vintage one that thinks they are just dark for dark's sake. The reality is there is also a beautiful "open-ness" to them. Never bright, but rarely murky either. I think many assume tubey 67 is what it should sound like!
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2018 14:57:40 GMT -6
Here's the one thing I can find online done with mine, with the mod I'm working on. Not a raw file, in context of a mastered mix. Vocal tracked with the -10 pad on, into a 1947 Gates SA-20. It's +1.2dB shelf at 12K in post, with a touch of de-essing, FCS RMS (dbx-ish) 3:1 compression. 8 audio transformers in path, mic to printed mix. Brian Stai - Train Rollin'My MK47 with Thiersch Blue M7 is brighter than the TLM67, and also brighter and deeper than my Gefell UMT70S. Here's the same drum setup with either MK67 or MK47 as the OH. Playing dynamic is a bit different, but you'll get the gist. Rest of that drum mix is a Senn MKH MS pair 8 feet out, and a Senn MKH 30 on the kick. 'Twas drum experiment day with new mics....67/47 was through a late '40's Collins 6P, Senn are all in Gates SA-70's. No processing or EQ, totally flat. MK67 drumsMK47 drums
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 10, 2018 15:00:36 GMT -6
Didn't listen yet, but the UNmodded vintage 67's are dark, yet open. A contradiction in terms but a beautiful contradiction. Such a bizarre paradox. I don't think that's what I'm hearing with the MK67. There's nothing "open" about this mic. To me, it sounds broken. And if this is indeed what a U67 sounds like, then I justdon't get it.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2018 15:01:32 GMT -6
It's not open. The real 67 I heard was indeed open.
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Post by indiehouse on Jan 10, 2018 15:02:05 GMT -6
That's kinda where I'm at. No offense intended...but sometimes these mods people rave about can be complete busts...I really, really believe it's all about having a quality capsule, sputtered correctly, and the "tuned" (avoid the glued M7) by someone that knows what they're doing. Do that in an environment that you are familiar with - because it can be sucky, sucky, sucky, oh wait, keep going...OMG. I guess what I'm saying is that it's a process. Unfortunately, there are only so many people that know what they're doing twisting screws, changing capicitance, etc...and it's still kinda voodoo even for them...but I swear to goodness that it's still the best option in real world costs. I actually thought the Tele 251 was bright (there was one with a vintage ck12 and AC701 that was unbelievable, though)...thought the Telefunken U47 sounded pretty damn good. But why would I pay that much money for components and a body? Well, I know why...because it's marketing. I want it like I want a new loaded Land Rover over a loaded 4Runner. True, I get that. But in terms of the MK67, it's a stock Neumann capsule. It's just a circuit swap, and the circuit is supposed to be the same as a U67.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2018 15:06:24 GMT -6
The circuit is identical, layout, PCB's, everything, with the exception of 1) transformer itself 2) addition of filament switching for the optional tube. If everyone's is like mine, the first thing to do (which doesn't do much) is remove C17 completely. It's not doing anything with this transformer.
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Post by drbill on Jan 10, 2018 15:10:23 GMT -6
Didn't listen yet, but the UNmodded vintage 67's are dark, yet open. A contradiction in terms but a beautiful contradiction. Such a bizarre paradox. I don't think that's what I'm hearing with the MK67. There's nothing "open" about this mic. To me, it sounds broken. And if this is indeed what a U67 sounds like, then I justdon't get it. I have heard from a few that this particular mod doesn't sound "right". Others seem love it. Makes one wonder if Neumann used to tune the capsules to the circuit of each individual mic before they left the building - and that lack of tuning on these modded mics where "one size fits all" is the problem. I can't really speak first hand, because early on, I ordered one for my vintage U87 and it came broken. When Max tried to figure it out, he came to the conclusion that he couldn't do the mod for the vintage 87 due to "it not sounding right". So I moved a different direction and got a RMS269 which to me ended up sounding better and was cheaper as well. The one fairly consistent thing I find about vintage Neumann's (at least those that are in good condition), is that there is an open-ness about the high end. Even when the freq response is rolling off. It's completely bizarre to me, and it's hard to describe, but I find it consistent and almost magical. On some of their mics (I'm beginning to think that especially of the AC701 versions) there's a palpable magic in the HF. At any rate, it's all voodoo when you get into parsing these details. Like I told Vincent - when you find one you like - don't let go of it or figure you'll get another in the future.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jan 10, 2018 15:14:37 GMT -6
I don't think that's what I'm hearing with the MK67. There's nothing "open" about this mic. To me, it sounds broken. And if this is indeed what a U67 sounds like, then I justdon't get it. I have heard from a few that this particular mod doesn't sound "right". Others seem love it. Makes one wonder if Neumann used to tune the capsules to the circuit of each individual mic before they left the building - and that lack of tuning on these modded mics where "one size fits all" is the problem. I can't really speak first hand, because early on, I ordered one for my vintage U87 and it came broken. When Max tried to figure it out, he came to the conclusion that he couldn't do the mod for the vintage 87 due to "it not sounding right". So I moved a different direction and got a RMS269 which to me ended up sounding better and was cheaper as well. The one fairly consistent thing I find about vintage Neumann's (at least those that are in good condition), is that there is an open-ness about the high end. Even when the freq response is rolling off. It's completely bizarre to me, and it's hard to describe, but I find it consistent and almost magical. On some of their mics (I'm beginning to think that especially of the AC701 versions) there's a palpable magic in the HF. At any rate, it's all voodoo when you get into parsing these details. Like I told Vincent - when you find one you like - don't let go of it or figure you'll get another in the future. Or were 67 Capsules all tuned different? Are modern Capsules tuned different because of the automated manufacturering ? Was QC better? I agree I think it's the Capsules but man we are what 30 years since production of the original 67's stopped?
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Post by EmRR on Jan 10, 2018 15:18:08 GMT -6
I don't think that's what I'm hearing with the MK67. There's nothing "open" about this mic. To me, it sounds broken. And if this is indeed what a U67 sounds like, then I justdon't get it. I have heard from a few that this particular mod doesn't sound "right". Others seem love it. Makes one wonder if Neumann used to tune the capsules to the circuit of each individual mic before they left the building - and that lack of tuning on these modded mics where "one size fits all" is the problem. God the quote feature in this web app blows...no offense John. C17....tuning for the transformer and the capsule both, earliest schematic it's a variable range, later 67 schematic it's a fixed value and they quit changing it. Max, take it out completely. Transformer is the culprit, really, you guys can climb back out of the capsule rabbit hole.
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Post by drsax on Jan 10, 2018 23:06:23 GMT -6
I haven’t had mine up to a vintage 67 yet, but my MK67 sounds gorgeous. It seems there is a lot of difference in vintage 67’s due to mods, aging, etc... what I do know is that everyone that has recorded on it here is extremely pleased. Sounds world class. I replaced the PF86 with a vintage telefunken EF86 and it opened up the high end and the low end got bigger and more lush as well. It may not be dead on a vintage 67, but it’s a great Mic. If you’re having less than stellar results, I wonder if there’s a tube or capsule problem, or some other problem. Mine put my old Bees Neez Tribute 1 and my Blue Bottle B7 setup to shame. The Blue and Bees Neez are now gone.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 11, 2018 8:13:13 GMT -6
I’ve never heard a 67 that sounds anywhere near this.
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Post by rob61 on Jan 11, 2018 8:29:02 GMT -6
The circuit is identical, layout, PCB's, everything, with the exception of 1) transformer itself 2) addition of filament switching for the optional tube. If everyone's is like mine, the first thing to do (which doesn't do much) is remove C17 completely. It's not doing anything with this transformer. Does removing C17 affect the sound? If so, how?
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