kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 19, 2017 6:25:54 GMT -6
UA in its own way is very anal, controlling, self centred and not client focussed. Its approach to serving long term heavily invested clients needs a complete rethink. Nobody needs to constantly buy new plug ins: what for ?
It has been steadily dropping prices and its recent sale was unprecedented in value but see above.
This policy means after you sell a few pie3ces of gear anything else will be bricked and never updatable.
This can only be because UA is upset about people selling their accounts but they only reason people do that is because UA doesn't let you sell your plug ins individually so what are people going to do, literally let an investment worth $1,000's languish or get lowballed by the market when you try to sell.
UA created this whole system and it needs to re-think it.
I personally was very worried about the subscription plan as that would have completely undermined the used market which is already devalued due to UA's sale policies.
I too am happily out of UA land but do miss a few of the plugs ins. That was plan b to wait and see what they release soon, dual core dsp and then wait for a sale and buy back only the plugs I know I will use or maybe not.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 19, 2017 6:56:36 GMT -6
So, there is a published transfer limit: from UA forum: help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/art...Apollo-Devices"Important Note on UAD device transfer limits: The maximum UAD hardware one system can accommodate is six UAD devices. To prevent the fraudulent sale/misuse of UAD products, Universal Audio limits the UAD hardware transfer quantity out of one account to five UAD devices." I do understand that there are people who constantly try to scam the UA system, but I think UA needs to look at how its policies create that frustration ?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 19, 2017 7:10:32 GMT -6
The easy way around this is the same as the one used in AVID's evil days of HD. Simply register the unit to a disposable EMAIL address that contains made up info, give the buyer the disposable email address and login info!
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Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2017 8:28:30 GMT -6
The easy way around this is the same as the one used in AVID's evil days of HD. Simply register the unit to a disposable EMAIL address that contains made up info, give the buyer the disposable email address and login info! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one major difference between this and Avid is that people weren't selling the Avid hardware but keeping the software. Many people with UAD gear commonly do this and, so even with a dummy email, your plugins are tied to that email if you want to keep them, therefore the person buying the used hardware still has to register with a new email, dummy account or not.
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Post by adamjbrass on Dec 19, 2017 9:04:50 GMT -6
what a dumb hassle
Im super glad I dislike using UAD plug ins. I think they sound "odd"...synthetic. No gear is worth suffering a bad experience like this.
There are so many awesome companies making great software.
My computer can run 2000 plugs, so I see no reason to add this companies "acceleration" to my life.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Dec 19, 2017 9:16:29 GMT -6
The easy way around this is the same as the one used in AVID's evil days of HD. Simply register the unit to a disposable EMAIL address that contains made up info, give the buyer the disposable email address and login info! Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one major difference between this and Avid is that people weren't selling the Avid hardware but keeping the software. Many people with UAD gear commonly do this and, so even with a dummy email, your plugins are tied to that email if you want to keep them, therefore the person buying the used hardware still has to register with a new email, dummy account or not. Yes if you want to keep hardware and plugins separate you use 2 dummy emails!
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 19, 2017 9:29:38 GMT -6
Here's what I don't get. It's easy enough to just send someone the installers for the latest UAD drivers via dropbox or whatever. They install it on their system, plug in the hardware, and boom, they have UAD stuff working on their computer. Sure, they can't buy new plugins, but they can use whatever is currently authorized with the hardware. If you're selling everything, then they're fine. It seems to me that the problems arise when you want keep your plugins and sell only your hardware. Am i missing anything here? Nope you need a fresh AUTH file from the UAD account. Ok the seller could send him this file, thats true. But that sucks for the buyer....
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Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2017 9:36:10 GMT -6
This may be the last nail in the coffin for me with UAD. I bought a few cheap ($50 or less) plugins this year at the Xmas sale, but that was the first time in a while. The only UAD plugins I really have any true interest in maintaining access to are the time based effects like reverb/delay and plugins which can be used in real-time for guitars and stuff like that. Channel strips, comps, eqs, etc. are all well covered by native these days or even surpassed in some cases by companies like Acustica.
I think going forward, I'm probably going to pick up something like the new Lynx 16 channel or the Motu 16a, sell my Apollo 16 SF and just buy a used Apollo 8 Quad to run over adat into the Lynx or Motu. The Apollo wouldn't be my main converters at that point and would just serve to basically function as a Satellite for mixing and to provide real-time dummy tracks for monitoring while tracking. Apollo conversion quality would become a moot point then and I would have no need to worry anymore about upgrading or spending anymore money with UAD.
Either way, I'm pretty sure I'm done buying UAD plugins. Between the UAD and native plugins I already have, there aren't really any other UAD plugins I need or want.
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Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2017 9:39:21 GMT -6
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that one major difference between this and Avid is that people weren't selling the Avid hardware but keeping the software. Many people with UAD gear commonly do this and, so even with a dummy email, your plugins are tied to that email if you want to keep them, therefore the person buying the used hardware still has to register with a new email, dummy account or not. Yes if you want to keep hardware and plugins separate you use 2 dummy emails! I don't believe this will work the way you're saying. The email/account I have right now will now and forever be linked to the plugins I have. If I sell and buy new hardware enough, I will reach the transfer limit, just as John has. There is no option to have your plugins on one email and your hardware on another. If you own it, it's on one account, plugins and hardware.
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Post by ragan on Dec 19, 2017 9:53:27 GMT -6
Here's what I don't get. It's easy enough to just send someone the installers for the latest UAD drivers via dropbox or whatever. They install it on their system, plug in the hardware, and boom, they have UAD stuff working on their computer. Sure, they can't buy new plugins, but they can use whatever is currently authorized with the hardware. If you're selling everything, then they're fine. It seems to me that the problems arise when you want keep your plugins and sell only your hardware. Am i missing anything here? No, you can sell hardware without selling your plugs, they just won’t do partial plugs. It’s all or nothing. Which is patently ridiculous.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 19, 2017 10:02:23 GMT -6
Here's what I don't get. It's easy enough to just send someone the installers for the latest UAD drivers via dropbox or whatever. They install it on their system, plug in the hardware, and boom, they have UAD stuff working on their computer. Sure, they can't buy new plugins, but they can use whatever is currently authorized with the hardware. If you're selling everything, then they're fine. It seems to me that the problems arise when you want keep your plugins and sell only your hardware. Am i missing anything here? No, you can sell hardware without selling your plugs, they just won’t do partial plugs. It’s all or nothing. Which is patently ridiculous. So peeps sell the hardware but not their purchased plugs ins and then sell their account and strip it of personal info and give the password to the new owner.
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Post by Quint on Dec 19, 2017 10:06:13 GMT -6
No, you can sell hardware without selling your plugs, they just won’t do partial plugs. It’s all or nothing. Which is patently ridiculous. So peeps sell the hardware but not their purchased plugs ins and then sell their account and strip it of personal info and give the password to the new owner. Is that possible? Your plugins are still linked to that account. How would you still have access to them?
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 19, 2017 10:10:34 GMT -6
Here's what I don't get. It's easy enough to just send someone the installers for the latest UAD drivers via dropbox or whatever. They install it on their system, plug in the hardware, and boom, they have UAD stuff working on their computer. Sure, they can't buy new plugins, but they can use whatever is currently authorized with the hardware. If you're selling everything, then they're fine. It seems to me that the problems arise when you want keep your plugins and sell only your hardware. Am i missing anything here? No, you can sell hardware without selling your plugs, they just won’t do partial plugs. It’s all or nothing. Which is patently ridiculous. Totally forgot about the option to keep the software. Anyway If somone want to get rid of a DSP Platform he must be able to sell it. With the new powerful computers and hybrid mixing. Sorry I dont need any DSP cards. I dont mix large projects with over 100 tracks if I reach 45 - 50 tracks its big. I think the time of DSP cards is over at least if its not PT HD. I did many AB tests before I sold the PCIE card I dont hear a big diffrence to slate or any other plug in. They all sound somewhat two dimensinal. To my ears slate is more near in simulation real gear than UAD. For all plugs I miss by UAD I found cheaper options or had already some on the HD. To be true there is another thing that toally turns me down on UAD. The ANAL marketing the self praising "we are the best" blah blah blah. That they put down bad rateings in the webshop. I once had them on phone and the guy on the phoned told me to wait a second. His second was 5 minutes and I was caling form Germany I asked him if he may forgot that it gets expensive for me. He told that this is my problem. I remeber the day Waves came around the corner with the CLA compressors which all simulated the nonlinearties much better. Writeing them an e mal and asking for revisons was lese majeste. If I put that all together over the last 14 years. Its just stupid that I waited that long with jumping off the UAD track. Someone else would have quit after this bad service expereince.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 19, 2017 10:18:15 GMT -6
Something else UA needs to keep in mind is that, if this is going to be their policy going forward, they're going to need a much easier and quicker way for people to verify whether an Apollo or Satellite they're interested in purchasing on the used market has any transfer "credits" left tied to the most recent owner. I know I would certainly be gun-shy about buying any UAD product on the used market without some sort of pre-verification that I wasn't buying a brick. It's unfortunate but also a truth that there are people out there who might try to go ahead and sell an Apollo anyway to someone who isn't aware the current owner has knowingly reached their transfer limit. Without an easy way for people to verify the status of used UAD gear, it could depress sales of used UAD gear as knowledge of this transfer policy becomes more well known, which could in turn depress sales of new UAD gear. People are generally less inclined to buy something if/when they know they may not be able to sell it down the road if they no longer want or need it. This is not good news at all. I'm really surprised that UA would ever consider such a thing. Even if it's not a deliberately shitty move, it certainly at least seems to be short sighted and a bad business decision. This seems to me to be a sneaky strategy to discourage people from buying UA devices used, where the company makes no profit on the sale. Obviously the company is more interested in selling new product that makes them money than in facilitating sales of used product that does not. It's an example of shooting yourself in the foot out of greed and short-term thinking. Probably some accountant's bright idea. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 19, 2017 10:21:02 GMT -6
Here's what I don't get. It's easy enough to just send someone the installers for the latest UAD drivers via dropbox or whatever. They install it on their system, plug in the hardware, and boom, they have UAD stuff working on their computer. Sure, they can't buy new plugins, but they can use whatever is currently authorized with the hardware. If you're selling everything, then they're fine. It seems to me that the problems arise when you want keep your plugins and sell only your hardware. Am i missing anything here? Yes, you could do that. That would possibly work between friends, but like you said, they couldn't buy anything else.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 19, 2017 10:24:07 GMT -6
So, there is a published transfer limit: from UA forum: help.uaudio.com/hc/en-us/art...Apollo-Devices"Important Note on UAD device transfer limits: The maximum UAD hardware one system can accommodate is six UAD devices. To prevent the fraudulent sale/misuse of UAD products, Universal Audio limits the UAD hardware transfer quantity out of one account to five UAD devices." I do understand that there are people who constantly try to scam the UA system, but I think UA needs to look at how its policies create that frustration ? I'm racking my brain trying to think of how this could be a scam...What am I missing? The scam would be NOT transferring ownership. BTW - I would be fine paying $25 after 5 transfers.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 19, 2017 10:24:24 GMT -6
So peeps sell the hardware but not their purchased plugs ins and then sell their account and strip it of personal info and give the password to the new owner. Is that possible? Your plugins are still linked to that account. How would you still have access to them? You don't, this is to sell your used bought plugs in separate from selling hardware.
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 19, 2017 10:28:14 GMT -6
An interesting perspective from UA forum :
"I also saw a sketchy UAD Apollo 8p up for sale near me the other day that was almost full blown retail price but it said that it had all the plugins in unlocked demo mode for 365 days and that they won't transfer it via UA with the sale and recommend that you do not do it either. They in fact said something like "If you do want to have it transferred you can call them and ask them to do it for you but you will lose all the plugins" -- not sure it's related but it was super fishy (and it's gone now). Not sure if it's related to any of this. I honestly suspect the system might be like someone mentioned earlier, that you can only do the "automated" transfers up to 5 times and after that you have to call them to ask for transfers to happen. I suspect if you're on the up-and-up that transfers wouldn't be a problem, but if you're doing shady stuff or trying to be a reseller without actually being a reseller through proper channels then it's a safe guard to keep people from abusing and/or hacking the system."
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 19, 2017 10:28:51 GMT -6
And lets not promote bilking a company - I just expect to be treated fairly too.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 19, 2017 10:31:27 GMT -6
An interesting perspective from UA forum : "I also saw a sketchy UAD Apollo 8p up for sale near me the other day that was almost full blown retail price but it said that it had all the plugins in unlocked demo mode for 365 days and that they won't transfer it via UA with the sale and recommend that you do not do it either. They in fact said something like "If you do want to have it transferred you can call them and ask them to do it for you but you will lose all the plugins" -- not sure it's related but it was super fishy (and it's gone now). Not sure if it's related to any of this. I honestly suspect the system might be like someone mentioned earlier, that you can only do the "automated" transfers up to 5 times and after that you have to call them to ask for transfers to happen. I suspect if you're on the up-and-up that transfers wouldn't be a problem, but if you're doing shady stuff or trying to be a reseller without actually being a reseller through proper channels then it's a safe guard to keep people from abusing and/or hacking the system."
That sounds like someone that UA gave NFR licenses to trying to resell. Pretty crappy. I've followed all the rules - probably paid UA over $15,000 in 10 years. It would be nice not to be treated like the unwashed.
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Post by joseph on Dec 19, 2017 10:55:36 GMT -6
I agree with all the criticisms of UAD, but I honestly don’t think native solutions top a few of the latest UAD plugins. I say this as a recent UAD customer, who did not go through all the upgrades.
For example the new SSL emulations - I tried many other emulations.
The waves strip eq is opaque and dynamics smushy , the slate is just the eq without lpf so the synergy isn’t there, the duende sounds like an SSL in overall character, and gate is very nice but the overall impression is a little grainy and 2D. These are older tech plugins so it’s understandable.
The brainworx g and e don’t sound like an ssl but bigger, less dry and more eq masked.
For that sort of thing I think the UAD 88rs mkii is better anyway.
The new trackcomp ssl dynamics are nice I have to say.
The UAD gbus is also better than other plugins. I do really like action of cytomic the glue, but it’s cleaner than hardware. I think andy plans to update in near future though.
Also think UAD 1176 E holds up well versus hardware clones in shootouts I’ve done. The compression and distortion is essentially the same. Only in the low end do I hear the hardware being a little more present. The slate black has the most annoying release taper and metering, I only ever liked it in fastest A and R. The slate stress is excellent though.
Likwise no native opto sounds as good to me as la2a gray.
The UAD 1073 phase shift is way closer to my BAE hardware than any plugin native ive tried.
The softube curve bender rocks, but only UAD licenses at the moment.
I wish it weren’t true!
I do prefer the relab and exponential reverbs and dmg/tdr for clean dynamics/eq and limiting.
I don’t like the older UAD stuff much.
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Post by Johnkenn on Dec 19, 2017 11:25:31 GMT -6
I agree with all the criticisms of UAD, but I honestly don’t think native solutions top a few of the latest UAD plugins. I say this as a recent UAD customer, who did not go through all the upgrades. For example the new SSL emulations - I tried many other emulations. The waves strip eq is opaque and dynamics smushy , the slate is just the eq without lpf so the synergy isn’t there, the duende sounds like an SSL in overall character, and gate is very nice but the overall impression is a little grainy and 2D. These are older tech plugins so it’s understandable. The brainworx g and e don’t sound like an ssl but bigger, less dry and more eq masked. For that sort of thing I think the UAD 88rs mkii is better anyway. The new trackcomp ssl dynamics are nice I have to say. The UAD gbus is also better than other plugins. I do really like action of cytomic the glue, but it’s cleaner than hardware. I think andy plans to update in near future though. Also think UAD 1176 E holds up well versus hardware clones in shootouts I’ve done. The compression and distortion is essentially the same. Only in the low end do I hear the hardware being a little more present. The slate black has the most annoying release taper and metering, I only ever liked it in fastest A and R. The slate stress is excellent though. Likwise no native opto sounds as good to me as la2a gray. The UAD 1073 phase shift is way closer to my BAE hardware than any plugin native ive tried. The softube curve bender rocks, but only UAD licenses at the moment. I wish it weren’t true! I do prefer the relab and exponential reverbs and dmg/tdr for clean dynamics/eq and limiting. I don’t like the older UAD stuff much. I couldn't agree with you more. There was a time that native seemed to have caught up with UA, but some of these latest plugins - IMO - are hardware-selling-worthy. No other 1176 emu dirties up like the UAD version ABI cranked input. The SSL G Bus is exceptional. The Distressor - though not my bag - is spot on. The BX-20 is fantastic. The RMX16 fantastic. I still use the EMT plates all the time. The B15 and Eden plugs are mainstays for shaping bass. The Oxford Dynamic EQ - to me sounds better than other options. That's why it's so disappointing.
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Post by joseph on Dec 19, 2017 11:39:42 GMT -6
Oh yeah, the BX20 adds so much breadth to moderate tempo songs.
I think RMX16 sounds fantastic but not sure it serves the stuff I’m doing at the moment.
Have to check out the Eden.
I really didn’t expect the 1176 to nail high gr fet distortion so well.
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Post by dankin on Dec 19, 2017 12:14:57 GMT -6
Haven't posted here very much, but this thread caught my attention. I was just on the other end of this. I purchased a quad satellite off of Craigslist last week that came with a bunch of plugins. I got out of the UAD thing a few years ago, but I miss some of the plugins and honestly could use the dsp, I just didn't want to have to rebuy a bunch of plugs I used to own. Anyway, found a good deal for a quad with a lot of the plugs I wanted only to find the seller had transferred too many times, and they denied the transfer. Somehow after 2 day's of phone calls, the seller got them to go through with the transfer. Even after UA sent an email to me and said it would not happen. Personally, being that you can't run the plugins without a card, I think the policy is dumb. Even if they loose out on a used sale, at some point the new owner is going to buy more plugins. Or, at least charge a minimal fee for the transaction, and do away with the limit.
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 19, 2017 13:28:32 GMT -6
Also think UAD 1176 E holds up well versus hardware clones in shootouts I’ve done. The compression and distortion is essentially the same. Only in the low end do I hear the hardware being a little more present. The slate black has the most annoying release taper and metering, I only ever liked it in fastest A and R. The slate stress is excellent though. Likwise no native opto sounds as good to me as la2a gray. I agree! But for the rest you can find native replacements easily...
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