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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 27, 2014 16:28:09 GMT -6
I'm with watchtower on this. I just want to hear some clips to hear the differences myself. Not trying to derail or anything, genuinely curious. |
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Post by RicFoxx on Jan 27, 2014 16:33:27 GMT -6
I'm with watchtower on this. I just want to hear some clips to hear the differences myself. Not trying to derail or anything, genuinely curious. No problem with this as I think it would be beneficial but I will start another thread. It's going to take me some time as I want to do a proper shootout (as proper as I can be.) Give me a few weeks (two kids, two businesses and construction going on in my home.) |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 27, 2014 16:35:04 GMT -6
Thanks. Good luck man.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 27, 2014 17:56:27 GMT -6
Guess thIs is where the money per converter per interface talks. I haven't had the pleasure of using the symphony but have had the pleasure of listening to cowboy's fine recordings. I have a bla modded Apollo, dbox and burl b2 ADC, let my 2192 go very happy with the b2 .
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Post by RicFoxx on Feb 4, 2014 15:40:57 GMT -6
Maybe someone can help me here...
As simple as this may sound…Can I use the Twin with my apogee symphony with 8X8 analog/AES/Adat card through the ADAT with the Burl B2 on the SPIDIF of the Symphony???
I have the Apollo 16 that I have been testing against the Symphony and I do not want to give up the Symphony. I would love to use them together but no ADAT ins on the 16.
As for the testing, I have not have the time to do a proper test for a product to be judged on the internet but I will get around to it. I will say that the AD on the apollo is very good and is close to the Symphony but my ears tell me the Symphony has that little extra something.
I love listening through the symphony's DA though and I want to keep it and possibly trade in the Apollo 16 for the Apollo twin if I can use it with the Symphony with the Burl piggy backed to it. I will use the Symphony as the DA into my console in USB mode on mix down.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 4, 2014 16:14:46 GMT -6
I just skimmed, but I think we are out of luck. There are no digital outs on the Twin - so you have to use the Apollo DA. Major design flaw if you ask me. If it had a digital out, I would have it right now.
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Post by popmann on Feb 4, 2014 19:06:03 GMT -6
It's not a design flaw, IMO. I
You understand that a $100 interface and a $2500 one sounds exactly the same when using external conversion, right? It's designed for people who THAT is their studio. They plug that into their MacBook and make some music.
UA makes gear for home studios now. This is going for the same market as the babyface and Duet. And, IMO, at that similar price point...offering a good bit more. It doesn't interest ME...because I own recording gear. I own mic preamps. EQs. DAC with analog volume control to feed my monitors. Analog cue system. The reason I'm BUYING the 2ch AD is so I never have to deal with this new home market BS again....any $100-200 computer interface with a SPDIF IO and my sound quality and tracking experience isn't affected--positive or negatively. It can be USB...or FW....or TB...or PCIe...or whatever the F gets me in and out of the computer. Done.
You won't catch me spending on digital stuff. Digital is cheap to get function--expensive to get sound...so, I spend where it matters...which allows me to spend LESS over the years and achieve the sound I'm comfortable with.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 4, 2014 19:18:50 GMT -6
It's not a design flaw, IMO. I You understand that a $100 interface and a $2500 one sounds exactly the same when using external conversion, right? It's designed for people who THAT is their studio. They plug that into their MacBook and make some music. UA makes gear for home studios now. This is going for the same market as the babyface and Duet. And, IMO, at that similar price point...offering a good bit more. It doesn't interest ME...because I own recording gear. I own mic preamps. EQs. DAC with analog volume control to feed my monitors. Analog cue system. The reason I'm BUYING the 2ch AD is so I never have to deal with this new home market BS again....any $100-200 computer interface with a SPDIF IO and my sound quality and tracking experience isn't affected--positive or negatively. It can be USB...or FW....or TB...or PCIe...or whatever the F gets me in and out of the computer. Done. You won't catch me spending on digital stuff. Digital is cheap to get function--expensive to get sound...so, I spend where it matters...which allows me to spend LESS over the years and achieve the sound I'm comfortable with. No - it's a design flaw. One extra digital connection could have made it SO much more. They could have sold to both entry level and people like me that wanted to use it as a desktop volume knob with the ability to use the UAD plugs on the way in. |
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2014 10:09:48 GMT -6
I emailed Black Lion to ask if it was possible to add a digital out to the unit. Then I could use it as a Monitor/Volume Interface allowing me to use UAD plugs on the way in and use my Symphony in standalone for ADDA.
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Post by popmann on Feb 20, 2014 13:11:20 GMT -6
But, the monitor volume IS a function of the DA (technically attenuation POST DAC). One of the cool design aspects of the Apollo series is that it's a digital controlled analog monitor feed...which you want...but, everyone seems to hate on. It's why I bought the DAC I did...I didn't buy it for an "upgrade" of the DAC--I bought it to functionally give the computer what my mixer recorder always had--a full resolution digital signal with analog volume control.
You can make valid arguments for RME's approach of having a 56bit mixer that digitally attenuates the volume, thus you'd have to bury it before losing 24bit resolution...and that's cheaper to implement...but, UA's "knob" on that unit controls the ANALOG output volume--not digital. So, even if BLA tap the stream before the DAC and add a SPDIF chipset to give a digital out--doing that would actually make the knob on your desk cease to function.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2014 14:51:32 GMT -6
John, why don't you just buy a used UAD2 DUO-Core pcie card, and a used PCIe-Thunderbolt chassis? The symphony sounds better than the apollo, so why are you messing around with another interface? the used gear will cost you about the same as the apollo twin, probably. That's what I would do, if I were trying to add UAD to my system.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2014 16:39:16 GMT -6
True...Still might be worth it to have the ability to track with the plugs for $699 or $899. Of course, you could always use the Apollo DA for tracking and then the Apogee for mixing...
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 20, 2014 16:40:18 GMT -6
BTW - here is BLA's response to my inquiry...
Hey John, We are working on a mod right now for the Apollo Twin. We agree that not including a digital output was a major misstep. Unfortunately, we cannot release any of the details or pricing at this time. Make sure you follow our Facebook page for the latest updates. Cheers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2014 8:17:44 GMT -6
Couldn't you still track thru plugs if you just use UAD inserts on a bus, with the bus input set to your audio input, and press record? I thought there's some method of recording like that, printing plugins right onto the track. It'll have latency tho. that's the difference between recording bus outputs and using the twin... but you can measure the latency and offset accordingly.
for them to add a digital output would be a MAJOR undertaking. they'd probably have to add an entire PCB to the unit that interfaced with the existing clock and digital signal circuitry. and that would involve reverse-engineering the circuit, among other things.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2014 8:33:41 GMT -6
Can't do it with PT's...I think you can with Cubase, but yes - latency is the issue.
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Post by popmann on Feb 21, 2014 15:29:24 GMT -6
So, you understand that the knob would no longer control the monitor volume if you used a digital output, right? And want one anyway?
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 21, 2014 19:55:54 GMT -6
Yes, I understand. And the answer is probably, No...I don't want one.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 6, 2014 12:25:48 GMT -6
Ooooo...Just looking on the BLA facebook page and BLA "liked" my "can you add a digital out?" comment...That would change the game with this for me.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 6, 2014 15:28:12 GMT -6
I'm just getting into it a little, but being able to print with UAD's plugs is cool. The new 610 plug is great.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 6, 2014 16:06:10 GMT -6
Like someone said...I don't neeeed this, but it would be cool as shite to be able to connect via Tbolt, use the plugs and interface from the Apollo and use the adda of the symphony.
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Post by kcatthedog on Mar 6, 2014 18:19:40 GMT -6
So, you understand that the knob would no longer control the monitor volume if you used a digital output, right? And want one anyway? true but if bla puts in a second spdif, then the twin could be coupled with a dbox for monitor control in which case the knob would be full up to send line level to dbox I have wondered if bla was doing the apollo mod as described the cat5's review ( gearsutopsy.com and adding the 2nd spdif And if bla went nutz they could upgrade the DA and clock If so the uber twin would be quite the little mobile device Killer 2 track plus adat in Just sayin ! |
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 6, 2014 18:24:20 GMT -6
True...I didn't think about that...the Volume would have to be controlled by the Symphony...
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Post by popmann on Mar 6, 2014 19:53:38 GMT -6
How did you not get that's what I've been saying the whole time? Their whole design revolves around a digitally CONTROLLED analog volume control. Pimp stylin...and frankly why everyone thinks it's DA is so inferior, probably...you literally HAVE to match levels out of whatever other converter (with something like an ATTY to fairly compare. Otherwise, you're comparing two different levels of signal hitting the amplifiers in the monitors--and don't get me started on how NOT linear amplifier inputs are.
I feel like I should help them write some ad copy or something...or actually maybe I shouldn't....since apparently I don't be communicatin' so's good like.
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Post by Johnkenn on Mar 6, 2014 20:16:41 GMT -6
You are great, Popmann. I remember you saying that now. I give you the credit. Do you want me to post it on the front page? As far as the Apollo's DA being inferior, I would encourage you to use your ears.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 6, 2014 22:38:18 GMT -6
Apollo's D/A is good, good enough to make first class demos, decent enough for an album. I just released 3 songs done with it. That said, add a Burl to it, and you're golden.
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