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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 8, 2017 19:41:54 GMT -6
But if you want jaw-dropping? KM54, KM56 or east Neumann M582 with the SDC cardioid capsule. Where are the clones of these? I would love a pair of KM56s.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Nov 8, 2017 20:07:38 GMT -6
But if you want jaw-dropping? KM54, KM56 or east Neumann M582 with the SDC cardioid capsule. Where are the clones of these? I would love a pair of KM56s. SDC's just don't have the margin or sex appeal to justify the cloners time of day unfortunately. You can still get KM84 capsules brand spanking new from Neumann as a part.
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Post by rowmat on Nov 8, 2017 21:29:59 GMT -6
Where are the clones of these? I would love a pair of KM56s. SDC's just don't have the margin or sex appeal to justify the cloners time of day unfortunately. You can still get KM84 capsules brand spanking new from Neumann as a part. I bought one KM85 (capsule has a built-in highpass EQ) and then later a boxed pair of KM85's in close to mint condition for a bit more than half the price of KM84's which are near impossible to find in very good condition. I manage to initially find an excellent used KK84 capsule (like new) for around $400. After I bought the boxed pair of KM85's I purchase a brand new pair of KK84 capsules through Sennheiser, Australia. All up I didn't actually save anything dollarswise over buying used KM84's, however, I ended up with three very nice KM bodies, two brand new capsules, and one as new capsule so, overall, I did okay. (And of course three spare KK85 capsules) "From my cold dead hands"
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Post by kcatthedog on Nov 9, 2017 7:06:20 GMT -6
pair for sale on GS for $400
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 9, 2017 15:32:35 GMT -6
For me the KM184 is the SM57 of SDCs. I like both the KM84 and the Beyer m201 better, but I can make my clients grin ear-to-ear with either one. [Corrected.] IMO SM57s are crappy microphones. They're capable of doing a passably mediocre job on nearly anything but they don't do very well on much of anything except maybe on a certain type of sound of LOUD guitar amps. And they have atrocious off-axs response. I'm convinced that a great many entry level engineers spend far more on room treatment than they need or is good for them because the off axis sound of the 57s they're using sounds like hell, and the true ON AXIS response in the presence region is unbelievably ragged (I've seen real pen graph plots) and pretty inconsistent, not at all like what they print on their product sheet.
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Post by jazznoise on Nov 10, 2017 16:06:27 GMT -6
The 57 is a functional mic - I use em for live shows, mostly. Bottom snare. It's my "I'm out of mics" mic. NT5's might be passable on something like choirs but on drums or piano I'd rather not deal with all that hyped top end. I'd go so far as to say they're my least favorite professional level mics.
KM184's are nice. Maybe unsexy, but an honest midrange that makes them a reliable workhorse. They're good on guitar cabs - combined with a t.bone/Nady ribbon was my go to on my last 2 sessions for 'heavy' guitar sounds (Doom metal, grindcore, post-hardcore). Also like them on fiddle and choir.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 10, 2017 16:13:01 GMT -6
The 57 is a functional mic - I use em for live shows, mostly. Bottom snare. It's my "I'm out of mics" mic. NT5's might be passable on something like choirs but on drums or piano I'd rather not deal with all that hyped top end. I'd go so far as to say they're my least favorite professional level mics. KM184's are nice. Maybe unsexy, but an honest midrange that makes them a reliable workplace. They're good on guitar cabs - combined with a t.bone/Nady ribbon was my go to on my last 2 sessions for 'heavy' guitar sounds (Doom metal, grindcore, post-hardcore). Also like them on fiddle and choir. That 'honest midrange' is what I'm all about on the KM184. Shamefully, I sold mine for cold hard cash to build the computer I am typing to you on right now. It was worth it, but I do miss that mic. Also glad somebody found out about it as an amp mic! That's a good sound.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Nov 10, 2017 16:43:58 GMT -6
I liked the KM84 on guitar amps more than the SM57, which was good too.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 10, 2017 17:47:36 GMT -6
I spend a few days more with the Røde NT5. I have to say its not a "fool proof" mic like the KM.
For example some close micing can sound great with the KM184. Close with the NT sounds very bad.
Getting a nice balance with the NTs is much different. 35,00 to 59,00 inches pointing slightly off axis on the body neck crossing sounds a lot like the guitar in my room. I still have to bring some spots lightliy to fall with the EQ, but nothing I could not live with.
One thing I like about the NT5s - they caputre every bit of the dynamic. If I play a mistake like in this quick and dirty take above, its there - unforgiving.
But finding the right spot is a major challenge.
I like the dynamics, but why do they make the capsule too bright. If you have one thing right, why not the rest as well?
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Post by wiz on Nov 10, 2017 17:54:26 GMT -6
I had a pair of NT5s for a decade.
I have a pair of KM184s I have owned for maybe 3-4 years...and a KM84 for about 4-5 years.
I know them all pretty well.... I also had a pair of Oktava MK012s for 5-6 years as well...
The KM84 eats all of them... 8).
Record your of axis response to the mics, thats where the money is
cheers
Wiz
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 10, 2017 18:53:26 GMT -6
I had a pair of NT5s for a decade. I have a pair of KM184s I have owned for maybe 3-4 years...and a KM84 for about 4-5 years. I know them all pretty well.... I also had a pair of Oktava MK012s for 5-6 years as well... The KM84 eats all of them... 8). Record your of axis response to the mics, thats where the money is cheers Wiz I would love to own this one when I heard them I was blown WOW. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CMC64SetEverything is nice with them mids lows top end....just very balanced.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 10, 2017 22:04:30 GMT -6
The 57 is a functional mic - I use em for live shows, mostly. Bottom snare. It's my "I'm out of mics" mic. NT5's might be passable on something like choirs but on drums or piano I'd rather not deal with all that hyped top end. I'd go so far as to say they're my least favorite professional level mics. KM184's are nice. Maybe unsexy, but an honest midrange that makes them a reliable workhorse. They're good on guitar cabs - combined with a t.bone/Nady ribbon was my go to on my last 2 sessions for 'heavy' guitar sounds (Doom metal, grindcore, post-hardcore). Also like them on fiddle and choir. "Functional", eh? I suppose that's another way of saying "passably mediocre". I have 4 57s and 3 working 56s. They rarely get used except occasionally on live punk shows. (And even then not nearly as often as they used to be since thay break so easily. At least Shure now sells the fragile front nosepiece/grille assembly as a separate part instead of making you buy the entire capsule...) And my my guitarist uses a 56 for his (background) vocal mic at band practice and live shows, which is OK since he hardly ever sings, anyway. The one mic from that family I actually like for something is a 545L, the "lavalier" version of the Unidyne III, which is actually a pretty good harp mic. "Out of Mics Mic" is a pretty good description. KM184s "nice"? Maybe if you like over hyped, somewhat nasty sounding presence/high end. IMO it's Neumann's take on a Chinese SDC. "Unsexy" ? Absolutely, in the same sense that a girl with buck teeth, a weak chin, copious warts, and a bad case of psoriasis is "unsexy". (Cue old Mad Magazine cartoon.) It lacks the all characteristics that make the (real) KM84 so great. "Good on guitar cabs"? I'd call that "damning with faint praise." (Considering that the original KM84 is pretty great on neartly anything?) The Neumann SDC answer to the SM57? Combined with a Nady ribbon? Really? I worked for Mr. Nady for awhile - you are aware that he habitually buys the cheapest stuff he can find from the Chinese factories? I think it's pretty safe to say that a Nady ribbon is possibly a second, much more likely a third that has been rejected by all the other companies that buy the same mic OEM from the same factories? I'll admit to owning one, purchased for $20 on an impulse buy from GC - I'll admit that it does make a better paperweight than a 57, since it doesn't easily roll off the (office) desk. And I guess that according to the laws of chance there's a possibily of finding one that doesn't have a misaligned or sagging/stretched ribbon. At this point though I think I'd rather blow the 20 or so bucks on sushi.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 10, 2017 22:12:27 GMT -6
One thing I like about the NT5s - they caputre every bit of the dynamic. If I play a mistake like in this quick and dirty take above, its there - unforgiving. Because they hype exactly the range(s) that make that mistake stick out like a sore thumb? Why bother? I don't think that I'd call exaggerating the dynamics "right". A good mic should reproduce everything with natural sound and balance. You shouldn't have to make excuses for it.
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Post by christopher on Nov 11, 2017 10:57:07 GMT -6
The worst mic I've ever used was an SM57. It was god awful and didn't work anywhere! But then it turned out to be fake. The studio I was working at bought it from Guitar Center, so you'd think it would be legit. But it wasn't. We returned it to Guitar center and explained they are selling fake mics. They looked at me like "huh? What's a microphone?". They swapped it out and we got a real one, put the fake one back on the shelf lol.. The difference was incredible. 57's may not be the best mics but they are insanely better than the garbage fake ones. Just a warning out there that 'new' mics can be a returned counterfeit.
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Post by johneppstein on Nov 11, 2017 16:11:29 GMT -6
The worst mic I've ever used was an SM57. It was god awful and didn't work anywhere! But then it turned out to be fake. The studio I was working at bought it from Guitar Center, so you'd think it would be legit. But it wasn't. We returned it to Guitar center and explained they are selling fake mics. They looked at me like "huh? What's a microphone?". They swapped it out and we got a real one, put the fake one back on the shelf lol.. The difference was incredible. 57's may not be the best mics but they are insanely better than the garbage fake ones. Just a warning out there that 'new' mics can be a returned counterfeit. And a bad case of the flu is infinitely preferable to lung cancer.
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Post by Guitar on Nov 11, 2017 16:57:40 GMT -6
I got a fake 57 on ebay... sadly, they are out there.
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Post by mrholmes on Nov 12, 2017 6:15:47 GMT -6
Here I go again. Still the NT 5 very different mic postion, pointing at the body down left. Thicker flatpick Dunlop Jazz Tone picked more in neck direction. And some mellower strings Phosphor Bronze. Its a new OM with Adirondack-Top. I still do not know to deal with it right.....very different compared to sitka spruce or german spruce. It can get loud as hell, but still has tons of harmonics when picked very soft. The guitar has a super wide dynamic range, from super soft to super loud. And a lot of low end power in the 200 Hz range. I would like to use 11th GHS Vintage Bronze, becasue the top end with this strings is more mellow. But they are hard to get in Germany. https%3A//soundcloud.com/andreasoberholz/happy-birthday-theme-on-acoustic-guitar
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Post by Vincent R. on Nov 12, 2017 6:55:24 GMT -6
I got a fake 57 on ebay... sadly, they are out there. This is for the SM58 not the SM57, but the same rules apply.
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