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Post by bartacusad on Sept 4, 2017 20:11:56 GMT -6
I don't see a lot of talk about the vp25 ? Dose it lack character because of the larger output transformer (smoother low end /less aggressive ) ? I thought about getting 2 vp28s and a few no iron cards to expieriment With . The VP25 for me are a "specific use" preamp and that is kick and floor toms. I built them purely out of a necessity to have a preamp with huge punchy bottom end...and they have it in spades. I use the Firlotte Op amp in them for their smiley faced eq sound and they work every single time. I'm sure they'd make for a great bass preamp as well but haven't tried it.
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Post by spindrift on Sept 5, 2017 12:16:30 GMT -6
I sold my 4 API 512c units for 4 new 512v units. They have the output pot which is important so I'm not overloading my RADAR inputs. I'd be interested in hearing how a VP28 stacks up agains these new API 512v units.
Keith
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 8, 2017 8:54:09 GMT -6
I sold my 4 API 512c units for 4 new 512v units. They have the output pot which is important so I'm not overloading my RADAR inputs. I'd be interested in hearing how a VP28 stacks up agains these new API 512v units. Keith I think you would be happy you were saving a bunch of money with better sounds.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 8, 2017 12:10:54 GMT -6
I sold my 4 API 512c units for 4 new 512v units. They have the output pot which is important so I'm not overloading my RADAR inputs. I'd be interested in hearing how a VP28 stacks up agains these new API 512v units. Keith The CAPI is all about Tone, with red dots or GAR as close as you can get to a big old API board!
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Post by spindrift on Sept 8, 2017 12:28:52 GMT -6
I sold my 4 API 512c units for 4 new 512v units. They have the output pot which is important so I'm not overloading my RADAR inputs. I'd be interested in hearing how a VP28 stacks up agains these new API 512v units. Keith I think you would be happy you were saving a bunch of money with better sounds. This is the test that must be done! See, I'm not a believer. I am a believer in API though and so are my clients. I've heard all those CAPI GAR/RedDot shootouts and the diffs are pretty subtle. I got my 512v units for not much more than an assembled VP28. Would love to hear a shootout!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 8, 2017 14:11:12 GMT -6
I think you would be happy you were saving a bunch of money with better sounds. This is the test that must be done! See, I'm not a believer. I am a believer in API though and so are my clients. I've heard all those CAPI GAR/RedDot shootouts and the diffs are pretty subtle. I got my 512v units for not much more than an assembled VP28. Would love to hear a shootout! First offsubtle is the AE's stock and trade, the additive addictive affects of subtle is what we get payed for. The thing with these pres is it's so much about gain staging that shootouts are far from effective at showing what's what. The current 512's are a pretty good deal, it's just that CAPI Goes a bit further and lets you tune the tone a bit more via Opamp options. I know many who sold their modern API for CAPI and none regret it,I know of no one who sold their CAPI for modern API!
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 8, 2017 14:55:25 GMT -6
I think you would be happy you were saving a bunch of money with better sounds. This is the test that must be done! See, I'm not a believer. I am a believer in API though and so are my clients. I've heard all those CAPI GAR/RedDot shootouts and the diffs are pretty subtle. I got my 512v units for not much more than an assembled VP28. Would love to hear a shootout! roundbadge noah shain
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Post by noah shain on Sept 8, 2017 21:16:17 GMT -6
This is the test that must be done! See, I'm not a believer. I am a believer in API though and so are my clients. I've heard all those CAPI GAR/RedDot shootouts and the diffs are pretty subtle. I got my 512v units for not much more than an assembled VP28. Would love to hear a shootout! roundbadge noah shainHaha. Transformers alone put CAPI in a different league. Also, an output attenuator is not the same as the fader on a VP28 or an API console. Capi has far more in common with the circuits that define the API sound than new API gear does. JK tagged me and RB here cuz both of us own API 1608s that we were unhappy with until we both modded them with capi components and Jeff's guidance to get them closer to "real" API circuits. I'd say the difference is NOT subtle. Do a search and you'll find the thread where I posted some before and after files that ended up inspiring RB to do the mods too. Anyway...I don't know much about new API preamps except I'll never buy one. I also got kicked off a panel that API was sponsoring because I talked about the mods I did and that I have 8 capi Eqs in the console and 0 apis. But we all hear stuff differently and we all like different sounds. But I will say believer or not there is some science involved. The gear isn't filled with pixie dust. It's filled with components and it works based on the laws of physics. Capi stuff is designed and built a certain way and it's different than new API gear. It sounds the way it does on purpose. We like it because of facts, not feelings.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 8, 2017 21:40:58 GMT -6
Haha. Transformers alone put CAPI in a different league. Also, an output attenuator is not the same as the fader on a VP28 or an API console. Capi has far more in common with the circuits that define the API sound than new API gear does. JK tagged me and RB here cuz both of us own API 1608s that we were unhappy with until we both modded them with capi components and Jeff's guidance to get them closer to "real" API circuits. I'd say the difference is NOT subtle. Do a search and you'll find the thread where I posted some before and after files that ended up inspiring RB to do the mods too. Anyway...I don't know much about new API preamps except I'll never buy one. I also got kicked off a panel that API was sponsoring because I talked about the mods I did and that I have 8 capi Eqs in the console and 0 apis. But we all hear stuff differently and we all like different sounds. But I will say believer or not there is some science involved. The gear isn't filled with pixie dust. It's filled with components and it works based on the laws of physics. Capi stuff is designed and built a certain way and it's different than new API gear. It sounds the way it does on purpose. We like it because of facts, not feelings. We need to get Jeff to build a simple 16+ input 4 aux 4x2 DIY modular console! I am a firm believer in the concept that every AE should know how to Solder and a CAPI kit is hard to screw up!
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 9, 2017 7:43:12 GMT -6
Yeah. If only there were a modular mixer.
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Post by bartacusad on Sept 9, 2017 8:30:57 GMT -6
Yeah. If only there were a modular mixer. Ahhh yes, if only. I think he's really into making DI boxes right now though....🙄
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 9, 2017 8:56:05 GMT -6
Give the people what they want
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Post by jsteiger on Sept 9, 2017 9:12:58 GMT -6
Yeah. If only there were a modular mixer. Ahhh yes, if only. I think he's really into making DI boxes right now though....🙄 Hahahaha ouch!!!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2017 10:04:17 GMT -6
I guess it would be a huge undertaking to design and produce a modular console. I would buy an 8 x 4 console.. I remember Tony Arnold at Helios talked a few years back about doing a flat pack modular console but there's no way i think this will happen - how cool would that have been
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Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 22:30:53 GMT -6
Haha. Transformers alone put CAPI in a different league. Also, an output attenuator is not the same as the fader on a VP28 or an API console. Capi has far more in common with the circuits that define the API sound than new API gear does. JK tagged me and RB here cuz both of us own API 1608s that we were unhappy with until we both modded them with capi components and Jeff's guidance to get them closer to "real" API circuits. I'd say the difference is NOT subtle. Do a search and you'll find the thread where I posted some before and after files that ended up inspiring RB to do the mods too. Anyway...I don't know much about new API preamps except I'll never buy one. I also got kicked off a panel that API was sponsoring because I talked about the mods I did and that I have 8 capi Eqs in the console and 0 apis. But we all hear stuff differently and we all like different sounds. But I will say believer or not there is some science involved. The gear isn't filled with pixie dust. It's filled with components and it works based on the laws of physics. Capi stuff is designed and built a certain way and it's different than new API gear. It sounds the way it does on purpose. We like it because of facts, not feelings. Jesus H. Christ....OK, I'll have to try them. You guys know what you're talking about. I've just found myself not relying as much on mic-pre choice and more on instrument and mic choice/placement to affect sounds and tone lately. I will get myself a 28 and do some comparisons. I can move those 512v units pretty easily if I need to. #IthoughtIwasdonespeding$ongearthisyear
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 9, 2017 22:47:29 GMT -6
Haha. Transformers alone put CAPI in a different league. Also, an output attenuator is not the same as the fader on a VP28 or an API console. Capi has far more in common with the circuits that define the API sound than new API gear does. JK tagged me and RB here cuz both of us own API 1608s that we were unhappy with until we both modded them with capi components and Jeff's guidance to get them closer to "real" API circuits. I'd say the difference is NOT subtle. Do a search and you'll find the thread where I posted some before and after files that ended up inspiring RB to do the mods too. Anyway...I don't know much about new API preamps except I'll never buy one. I also got kicked off a panel that API was sponsoring because I talked about the mods I did and that I have 8 capi Eqs in the console and 0 apis. But we all hear stuff differently and we all like different sounds. But I will say believer or not there is some science involved. The gear isn't filled with pixie dust. It's filled with components and it works based on the laws of physics. Capi stuff is designed and built a certain way and it's different than new API gear. It sounds the way it does on purpose. We like it because of facts, not feelings. Jesus H. Christ....OK, I'll have to try them. You guys know what you're talking about. I've just found myself not relying as much on mic-pre choice and more on instrument and mic choice/placement to affect sounds and tone lately. I will get myself a 28 and do some comparisons. I can move those 512v units pretty easily if I need to. #IthoughtIwasdonespeding$ongearthisyear One of the things you have to understand about Modern API VS old API is the original input Transformer that gave us so much of the tone was a total piece of crap, that gave us that sound we think of as API, Well over the years API has re- engineered that thing to improve the performance, the new ones do measure better but unlike ED and Jeff's version they don't have the distortion character those of us who know old API love and crave !
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Post by spindrift on Sept 9, 2017 23:13:19 GMT -6
See....it's not hard to talk me into buying more gear 🙄
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Post by noah shain on Sept 10, 2017 2:02:16 GMT -6
Haha. Transformers alone put CAPI in a different league. Also, an output attenuator is not the same as the fader on a VP28 or an API console. Capi has far more in common with the circuits that define the API sound than new API gear does. JK tagged me and RB here cuz both of us own API 1608s that we were unhappy with until we both modded them with capi components and Jeff's guidance to get them closer to "real" API circuits. I'd say the difference is NOT subtle. Do a search and you'll find the thread where I posted some before and after files that ended up inspiring RB to do the mods too. Anyway...I don't know much about new API preamps except I'll never buy one. I also got kicked off a panel that API was sponsoring because I talked about the mods I did and that I have 8 capi Eqs in the console and 0 apis. But we all hear stuff differently and we all like different sounds. But I will say believer or not there is some science involved. The gear isn't filled with pixie dust. It's filled with components and it works based on the laws of physics. Capi stuff is designed and built a certain way and it's different than new API gear. It sounds the way it does on purpose. We like it because of facts, not feelings. Jesus H. Christ....OK, I'll have to try them. You guys know what you're talking about. I've just found myself not relying as much on mic-pre choice and more on instrument and mic choice/placement to affect sounds and tone lately. I will get myself a 28 and do some comparisons. I can move those 512v units pretty easily if I need to. #IthoughtIwasdonespeding$ongearthisyear I'm with you on mic choice and placement superseding mic pre in order of importance although certain mics paired with certain pres in certain rooms can be special. i also kinda learned the hard (expensive) way that there is no single mic pre that is gonna give me that magic button EUREKA it sounds like god moment that I looked for for a decade. It personally took me that decade just to learn to hear what might make one pre more valuable to me than another. You won't catch me buying a neve clone again. A neve EQ clone maybe (ehem...alctron...ehem)😉 I think most of the celebrated differences in mic pres are pretty subtle and the people that are choosing high quality mic pres based on experience (instead of trends or online mob mentality) have well trained ears and the subtleties they value might not even be audible to many ears. The obvious and unnacceptable difference between a mackie and a neve might actually be imperceptible to some until they are trained to hear it. The results of most shoot outs and A/B tests I've read would bear out that theory. Sometimes, depending on the context, the mackie or the old high school principal PA announcement Shure brothers mic pre is just gonna beat everything else. I've come to the basic rough conclusion that the order of importance in recording is something like this: Player Instrument Room Mic Pre and/or compressor. Sometimes compressor is higher on the list! Of course, with variations from time to time. But get yourself a vp28 with litz transformers and red dots and try two things...drive the input hard and back off the fader and then...flip the approach and go gentle on the input and push the fader up. That second method is rarely talked about on line but it's got a cool, different sound. In fact it's kinda the opposite of what you hear people recommend on line. But if you walk in to some of the well known API rooms in LA during a tracking session you might see mic pre gains set pretty low and faders pushed way up past zero. You might just recognize the character of it. It's mentioned somewhere on the CAPI site I believe. Remember that the older records that established the API sound were tracked and mixed on large format consoles and the signals not only went through the ENTIRE channel of those consoles (including fader amps and eqs) but then maybe went to a bus BEFORE they traveled through tape machine electronics, on to tape, back through tape machine electronics and ANOTHER trip through an API channel, maybe a bus, summing amps and then through ANOTHER set of tape machine electronics and on to tape again. So a single stage, modern API mic pre ain't really gonna get you all the way there... I'm not implying they are bad or anything, just that they are missing a whole bunch of API!! But capi got you covered. Poke around the site and read the well written descriptions and you'll get a feel for what Jeff is really doing over there. It ain't about cashing in on api's brand...it's about the sound of those old circuits. It's about the sound that fostered your client's belief in API. CAPI will get you to that sound and if you can build the kits you'll get there really affordably. A vp28 probably has MORE than double the molecule bending componentry of a new API pre. It's that good stuff in there that'll get your signal sounding right.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Sept 10, 2017 6:46:27 GMT -6
See....it's not hard to talk me into buying more gear 🙄 Well in that case Don Larking just sent an email about. Some used Prism 8 ch Converters 2500 pounds each!😎
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Post by adamjbrass on Sept 11, 2017 7:27:07 GMT -6
Capi FD312 = instant "sounds like a record" plug in Attachments:
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Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2017 7:29:19 GMT -6
Capi FD312 = instant "sounds like a record" plug in Let's Hope Larry doesn't see that !😎
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Post by jsteiger on Sept 11, 2017 11:43:07 GMT -6
Capi FD312 = instant "sounds like a record" plug in Let's Hope Larry doesn't see that !😎 I think he's fine. We met face to face at Vance's summer NAMM party and were both very cordial. Richard the head tech from Blackbird introduced us. I kinda got the sense from Richard he hoped some sparks would fly! LOL
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Post by ericn on Sept 11, 2017 12:51:21 GMT -6
Let's Hope Larry doesn't see that !😎 I think he's fine. We met face to face at Vance's summer NAMM party and were both very cordial. Richard the head tech from Blackbird introduced us. I kinda got the sense from Richard he hoped some sparks would fly! LOL I'm shocked!
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Post by bartacusad on Sept 11, 2017 21:49:21 GMT -6
Ahhh yes, if only. I think he's really into making DI boxes right now though....🙄 Hahahaha ouch!!! However I'll probably wind up with two of em 😂
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 13, 2017 15:38:49 GMT -6
I guess it would be a huge undertaking to design and produce a modular console. I would buy an 8 x 4 console.. I remember Tony Arnold at Helios talked a few years back about doing a flat pack modular console but there's no way i think this will happen - how cool would that have been It's almost like he's already made one and doesn't want to release it.
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