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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 30, 2017 8:48:05 GMT -6
spock at its core this thread is about my search for my next mic, which I believe will be an M49 variant. So no worries about giving details on a mic that came up a few times by a few different people. I appreciate the input. I'm sure those who mentioned the REDD do too.
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Post by joseph on Aug 30, 2017 10:36:26 GMT -6
www.bonedo.de/artikel/einzelansicht/chandler-limited-redd-microphone-test.htmlDiaphragm: Platinum The capsule is obviously similar to that of an old Neumann microphone, because it has an inch diameter, is center-contacted and the capsule housing is quite thick. There is room for two backplates in the large brass body so that the front and rear diaphragms do not have to share a counterelectrode. Unlike almost 100% of all large-diaphragm microphones, a gold layer is not deposited on Mylar. The capsule used in the REDD Microphone uses two membranes with platinum (!). Full metal capsules are very rare, for example, in some Sanken and Neumann M 150 tubes, but both are titanium, not platinum. Chandler Limited REDD Microphone Test Capsule Metal Membrane
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 30, 2017 11:55:12 GMT -6
I'm sorry to say this isn't true. This capsule pictured has an obvious mylar membrane that's deposited with platinum. The M50's original membranes were PVC then changed to solid aluminum and lastly mylar. Many mics by Sheops and Neumann have used nickel membranes and aluminum is not uncommon.
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Post by joseph on Aug 30, 2017 12:55:07 GMT -6
I'm sorry to say this isn't true. This capsule pictured has an obvious mylar membrane that's deposited with platinum. The M50's original membranes were PVC then changed to solid aluminum and lastly mylar. Many mics by Sheops and Neumann have used nickel membranes and aluminum is not uncommon. Thanks for clearing that up. Mainly for the image I was quoting the bonedo article (note it says M150 - which does have titanium capsule/membrane apparently, whatever that means - not M50). I remember when it was first released, Chandler were cagey about the capsule specs, and you had people comparing the top end to a CK12, which of course it sounds nothing like. The phase shift is not at all similar. This article is more in line with what you said, and the image chandlerlimited.com/product-reviews/chandler-limited-emi-ltd-type-redd-microphone-recording-magazine/"The capsule is similar in size to most standard K47 and CK12 capsules and is a 1.25” dual backplate design with a 1” platinum-sputtered membrane. It is custom-built to Wade’s specs and uses a classic brass ring center-terminated design, rather than the more common (and less expensive) plastic ring designs."
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 30, 2017 15:38:46 GMT -6
Sorry I misread your post. I don't pay so much attention to Neumann's newer mics. Yes the M150 has a pure titanium membrane.
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Post by aremos on Aug 30, 2017 18:23:41 GMT -6
Is that an MBHO (Haun)?
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Post by joseph on Aug 30, 2017 19:24:10 GMT -6
Sorry I misread your post. I don't pay so much attention to Neumann's newer mics. Yes the M150 has a pure titanium membrane. No no, you did correct some misinformation! I'm no expert, I was gleaning information from articles.
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Post by joseph on Aug 30, 2017 19:29:16 GMT -6
Well MBHO supplies Bock with custom capsules (and formerly Brauner) and besides Thiersch and Gefell (for Josephson C617, whereas Josephson himself does capsules for Manley Gold and Silver), are there other German capsule makers that supply to third parties? Assuming it's not Brauner.
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Post by jakeharris on Aug 30, 2017 21:07:59 GMT -6
Probably. Horch uses platinum coated capsules, also from MBHO.
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Post by tskguy on Aug 31, 2017 6:41:04 GMT -6
Platinum seems like a sales gimmick to me... From what I see its a pretty standard Neumann k67 copy with metal rings. Skin that capsule with a gold coated Mylar and I bet they sound the same.. In fact Platinum is not a better conductor than gold and its also more dense. So on paper would possibly sound worse. I would also question its ability to adhere to Mylar? I wonder if it needs an adhesion layer?
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Post by timcampbell on Aug 31, 2017 8:29:41 GMT -6
It could be Latvian. The thick rings look good but could cause off axis problems.
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Post by adamjbrass on Aug 31, 2017 8:40:25 GMT -6
yea the chandler is a whole new animal, and to be honest, I think it would be stunningly impressive on your voice Vincent,
Just a gut feeling I have,
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 31, 2017 9:15:22 GMT -6
yea the chandler is a whole new animal, and to be honest, I think it would be stunningly impressive on your voice Vincent, Just a gut feeling I have, Hmm. I'll put it on my to try list. I'm also curious about the M149, but I will say the FLEA 49 gave me a lot of what I was looking for on my voice. I think we all have different aesthetics and that's fine, but I really liked what it did for my voice. That said, it may just be my familiarity with that sound from artists like Johnny Mathis and Andy Williams or for opera Jussi Bjorling and Franco Corelli that I associate with the "sound" I'm looking for. I was like that with the MK U67. I used it and it was the "sound" of the old Sergio Franchi recordings, whether a good fit for my voice or not. The biggest issue is it's often not easy to get in front of some of these mics. I can't invest 4-5k on something I haven't at least tried. Having had the Flea 49 for a week I got to try a bunch of musical styles and songs against other mics I own; MK U67, U87ai, BLUE Bottle Rocket 2, Advanced Audio CM49, etc.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 31, 2017 9:55:35 GMT -6
Just for fun I added another folder called crooning in the drop box link. In it are 4 files again all recorded simultaneously. One of the FLEA 49 through an emulation of a tele V76, another of the FLEA 49 through my UA610, the CM49 through the UA610, and the BLUE Bottle Rocket 2 with the B7 through my Tab Funkenwerk V78M. Curious what you guys think of this one. This song is going to be on the Christmas album I'm planning. For the Crooning, A, C, B, D. A and C are fairly close, and D is the clear loser for me on this one. Vincent R., can you pm these results?
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 31, 2017 18:23:03 GMT -6
jcoutu1 , sorry I was away and wanted to see if anyone else wanted to guess. I'm still open to hear what others thought. Crooning Key: A: FLEA 49 - Apollo preamp with Slate FG76 Emulation (I had wanted to run it through my TF V78M, but didn't get a chance) B: AA CM49 - UA 610 C: FLEA 49 - Apollo preamp - run back through my UA 610 D: BLUE Bottle Rocket II with B7 Cap - Tab Funkenwerk V78M Not my most scientific test, but it still shows the quality of the FLEA 49 vs my other mics.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Aug 31, 2017 18:38:47 GMT -6
jcoutu1 , sorry I was away and wanted to see if anyone else wanted to guess. I'm still open to hear what others thought. Crooning Key: A: FLEA 49 - Apollo preamp with Slate FG76 Emulation (I had wanted to run it through my TF V78M, but didn't get a chance) B: AA CM49 - UA 610 C: FLEA 49 - Apollo preamp - run back through my UA 610 D: BLUE Bottle Rocket II with B7 Cap - Tab Funkenwerk V78M Not my most scientific test, but it still shows the quality of the FLEA 49 vs my other mics. Time to sell the Blue. I'm not buying it though! Hahaha
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 31, 2017 18:49:24 GMT -6
jcoutu1 , sorry I was away and wanted to see if anyone else wanted to guess. I'm still open to hear what others thought. Crooning Key: A: FLEA 49 - Apollo preamp with Slate FG76 Emulation (I had wanted to run it through my TF V78M, but didn't get a chance) B: AA CM49 - UA 610 C: FLEA 49 - Apollo preamp - run back through my UA 610 D: BLUE Bottle Rocket II with B7 Cap - Tab Funkenwerk V78M Not my most scientific test, but it still shows the quality of the FLEA 49 vs my other mics. Time to sell the Blue. I'm not buying it though! Hahaha In honesty, I bought the BLUE for the B4 cap (M50). I have the Stage 2 and Stage 1 and will pick up another stage 1 soon. It was the easiest and cost efficient way to build a Decca tree with omni sphere microphones. Only one is a proper tube mic, but through tube pres it will work fine. I just made sure to pick up the main caps for use on vocals and such. Testing my wife on all the caps now.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Aug 31, 2017 19:25:56 GMT -6
Why didn't you use the same preamp to eliminate variables and judge the mics vs the mics ... I would send all mics into 4 Apollo preamps and recorded one take simultaneously. Then you could judge the mics ... just a thought 😀
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 31, 2017 19:27:46 GMT -6
Why didn't you use the same preamp to eliminate variables and judge the mics vs the mics ... I would send all mics into 4 Apollo preamps and recorded one take simultaneously. Then you could judge the mics ... just a thought 😀 I did that for the YouTube videos. Just have to edit them down. The opera sample I posted before was also the same preamp.
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Post by aremos on Aug 31, 2017 21:03:54 GMT -6
Corelli & Björling recordings (as well as Williams & Mathis) were probably done with different mics at different times. And when a 49 was used it probably had a 701 tube & a Neumann K47 (or PVC M7) capsule - both of which are not in a FleA. BTW, There is no "Celeste Aida" like that of Corelli's!
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Post by Vincent R. on Aug 31, 2017 22:38:14 GMT -6
Corelli & Björling recordings (as well as Williams & Mathis) were probably done with different mics at different times. And when a 49 was used it probably had a 701 tube & a Neumann K47 (or PVC M7) capsule - both of which are not in a FleA. BTW, There is no "Celeste Aida" like that of Corelli's! Very true. And of course with Corelli and Björling I'm referring to their later recordings. As for Tubes, I know it's not the 701 in the FleA. As for the capsules, FleA has their own version of the M7 and the K47. I can also request a Thiersch PVC M7. With these clones it always gets close, but it also depends on which mic they are basing their ideal sound on. I actually liked the sound of the F47 in the mic I tried. My friend's FleA 47 has their F7. As for Corelli's "Celeste Aida," the only thing that may compete with it is DeStefano's "Salut! Demeure chaste et pure," although very different....and I'm pretty sure it was recorded on and RCA 77.
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Post by aremos on Sept 1, 2017 10:07:28 GMT -6
I've always said that the most perfect tenor voice would be the timbre & consistency of Björling mixed with the emotional delivery & air of Corelli. And in modern times it could've been a mix of Pavarotti & Domingo ... But Jonas Kaufmann is incredible. Great picture of Jussi in front of a 49 in a recording session!
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Post by aremos on Sept 1, 2017 10:09:55 GMT -6
Vincent, Check this out (Juan Diego Florez):
2x 47FETs 2x 170's 1x Schoeps
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Post by Vincent R. on Sept 1, 2017 11:39:10 GMT -6
Nice. I've wanted to try the 170 and the FET 47.
For me, Mario Lanza when he was at his best has one of the most incredible voices and deliveries. His career unfortunately is marred by inconsistent performances and a failure to return to opera after Hollywood. His high C in this is ridiculous. I know he used an RCA 44 for most of his commercial recordings and an Altec 639 for most of his film recordings.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Sept 1, 2017 13:15:30 GMT -6
A didn't hang with the others B was liveable C Was what I would want nice body, K47 so less dimension than a M7 except D had the best presentation of the vibrato might have been the take but the others seamed a bit ragged on vibrato.
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