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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 20, 2018 19:13:32 GMT -6
I had considered going with an RMS or the guy in Brooklyn building the clones, but they are much more expensive than the Barbaric for similar quality parts as what I chose. The only big difference between the options seems to be who is building it, which of course can make all the difference. But it's hard to quantify if one random mic builder is worth thousands more than another based off a few anecdotes on the internet. I actually tried to connect with the guy in Brooklyn. I had wanted to demo the mic and thought it would be cool to have someone fairly local who could build or mod stuff for me. We spoke a few times but never were able to connect. Too bad.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 20, 2018 20:50:25 GMT -6
Well Dr. Bill, I get that a Chandler Redd is not on topic, but after 14 pages about an M49 style mic, I'd say the topic's been pretty well covered and it's only natural for a conversation to move forward, and occasionally sideways. I was joking in a way that perhaps it's better to forget about the clones of great mics and just get a Chandler Redd, (assuming you can afford it). I'm of the mind that no matter how great a clone is, if you want that particular sound, (U47, 67, M49, C12, etc.) AND 100% satisfaction, you gotta pay the price for the real deal. Getting back ON TOPIC, ahem, , maybe someone can tell me if the sound of the M49 in this shootout I did is a proper benchmark to judge the M49 by or not. realgearonline.com/thread/5685/high-end-mic-shootout-preview?page=4
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 20, 2018 21:13:31 GMT -6
Isn't that the M49C at the Barbershop? That mic might be the most amazing mic I've ever heard on my voice. Both Jeremy and I were like "wow." Jeremy even said he didn't even want to EQ it. Maybe just a little roll off. Some of the others were nice, but that M49 had magic on my voice. That's why this is such an individual thing. I sang through the U67 too and it was a good option and worked well, but didn't have that extra something the M49C did. On your samples that U67 seemed to have the same magic on your voice that the M49C had on mine. I'm going to make a video with those samples when I have a moment.
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Post by nudwig on Jun 20, 2018 21:37:50 GMT -6
That's good to hear. It's definitely a bit of a roll of the dice but I did a lot of research beforehand. What do you have for capsule/tube/transformer in yours? I went for the full cloned experience, K49 and ac701, and the included transformer in the AMI 49 kit (I believe he has photos on his Facebook). I was lucky and found both for a good price (extra lucky on the tube as it worked). I kept a search going for the better part of a year on the tube, the capsule was a lucky break after I had already obtained a Redline M7 that was still in route to me. Still deciding what to build with that.
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Post by drbill on Jun 20, 2018 21:42:21 GMT -6
Well Dr. Bill, I get that a Chandler Redd is not on topic, but after 14 pages about an M49 style mic, I'd say the topic's been pretty well covered and it's only natural for a conversation to move forward, and occasionally sideways. I was joking in a way that perhaps it's better to forget about the clones of great mics and just get a Chandler Redd, (assuming you can afford it). I'm of the mind that no matter how great a clone is, if you want that particular sound, (U47, 67, M49, C12, etc.) AND 100% satisfaction, you gotta pay the price for the real deal. Getting back ON TOPIC, ahem, , maybe someone can tell me if the sound of the M49 in this shootout I did is a proper benchmark to judge the M49 by or not. realgearonline.com/thread/5685/high-end-mic-shootout-preview?page=4Oh I agree with you completely Martin. I didn't mean to be bitchy - I just didn't want to veer off into REDD land. :-) Probably hadn't had a coffee yet. LOL That said, IMO, the venerable 49 deserves as many pages as she can muster. I mean, the 67 thread is at 28 or so pages..... I'm kinda over the whole clone mic thing, although I keep believing that some time I'll luck out and find a spectacular clone. Until then, I'd probably rather GET a Redd. Or actually - a pair. The clones are always awesome out of the gate when you first get em, but once you get in front of a killer well kept classic.....well, then they tend to loose their luster. There's a few exceptions in my mic closet, but the classics are classic for a reason.
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Post by drbill on Jun 20, 2018 21:47:35 GMT -6
PS - so glad that Wade didn't use the number 47, 48, 49, 87, 67, 84, 86, 54, or 56 on his mic creation. One of the main reasons I think it will stand the test of time. Personally, I think those numbers should be retired.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 20, 2018 21:51:30 GMT -6
PS - so glad that Wade didn't use the number 47, 48, 49, 87, 67, 84, 86, 54, or 56 on his mic creation. One of the main reasons I think it will stand the test of time. Personally, I think those numbers should be retired. Uli will figure out a way to copyright them and sue everyone including Neumann for using them 😎
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Post by Ward on Jun 21, 2018 6:28:09 GMT -6
Microphones that should be on all our want lists:
• Neumann M49
• Telefiunken ELA M251 (Upton's or Shannon's or Tele-America's will do)
• Neumann U48
• Neumann U67
• Chandler REDD
ymmv but I don't think it will
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 21, 2018 8:18:51 GMT -6
drill said, "I'm kinda over the whole clone mic thing, although I keep believing that some time I'll luck out and find a spectacular clone. Until then, I'd probably rather GET a Redd. Or actually - a pair. The clones are always awesome out of the gate when you first get em, but once you get in front of a killer well kept classic.....well, then they tend to loose their luster. There's a few exceptions in my mic closet, but the classics are classic for a reason."
That exactly how I feel. This year I haven't caught up to my medical bills yet, so no more big, or small gear purchases for a while. I do like to use the "downtime" to do some research though. The Chandler does stand on its own, and may become a classic itself in time. For guys looking at the $2,500- $4,000 clone range, don't overlook the Soyuz 0-17. It's in the general sound direction of a U67, but has its own smoother sound, yet retains great presence, certainly worth a test.
OK, back to the M49.. when I first got the Blackspade UM17, it was handmade by Oliver Archut and cost around $1,000. It was a dead ringer for an M49. Blackspade made some upgrades over time, and it began to be kind of a cross between a U47 and M49, ultimately being closer to a U47. So, if you just gotta have an M49-ish sound, perhaps search out a Blackspade UM-17.
When I was curious to identify the particular sound of an M49, I found Nora Jone's first album was done with the 49. I hadn't personally used an M49 until the shootout with Jeremy Gillespie at The Barbershop Studios two summers back.
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2018 11:22:21 GMT -6
Microphones that should be on all our want lists:
• Neumann M49
• Telefiunken ELA M251 (Upton's or Shannon's or Tele-America's will do)
• Neumann U48
• Neumann U67
• Chandler REDD
ymmv but I don't think it will Also on the want list.... "Win the lottery...." Twice.
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2018 11:22:59 GMT -6
PS -
KM54 KM53 M50 KM86
In pairs of course.....
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Post by drbill on Jun 21, 2018 11:23:26 GMT -6
PPS - glad you put the M49 at the top of the list.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 21, 2018 12:08:30 GMT -6
Microphones that should be on all our want lists:
• Neumann M49
• Telefiunken ELA M251 (Upton's or Shannon's or Tele-America's will do)
• Neumann U48
• Neumann U67
• Chandler REDD
ymmv but I don't think it will Also on the want list.... "Win the lottery...." Twice. Remind me to buy some tickets! Add Sony c37a Schoeps
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Post by aamicrophones on Jun 22, 2018 17:48:46 GMT -6
<abbr data-timestamp="1529516655000" class="o-timestamp time" title="Jun 20, 2018 10:44:15 GMT -7"> Jun 20, 2018 10:44:15 GMT -7</abbr> Vincent R. said: jeremygillespie 's M49C had some real magic when I tried it. Had a K47 and was a type C. It's funny because so many people reach for the M7 versions and the type B. My FleA 49 is a type B circuit, but I had them put in the K47 instead and it really does sound wonderful. I've only really tried the FleA 49 (3 incarnations; M7 + stock tube, K47 + stock tube, and M7 + NOS AC701K). I really went back and forth on AC701k for a while. All of the people who are my go to for advice had differing opinions. Ultimately I didn't want to fall into the trap of having to find an AC701K down the line and just went with the stock tube. I really love the sound I'm getting from it, especially the American song book stuff or the Mario Lanza stuff I do.
The only other M49 style mic I've used is the CM49 which is a good microphone, but a bit brighter and less beefy than my FleA. It also uses a K47. Shannon has offered to tweak it for me at a fair price, but I've just kind of let it be for now. Hoping to demo aamicrophones ' new CM49LE which should be out in the fall. I enjoy that the CM49 is gain staged almost identically to the FleA 49 making it easy to use them as a pair. I've used them in a blumlien in the room. Yes the CM49 is a bit brighter, but I can even them out with EQ, or use them creatively by aiming the bright mic at the darker source, etc. I'd love to have one that was closer in sonic quality to the FleA, but after that purchase I am strapped for a while and the CM49 is no slouch as an extra mic to have around. It's still my favorite of the AA Mics. Actually I had it next to Jeremy's M49C and sonically it sounded in between the M49C and the M269. It really held it's own in that shoot out. I have to finish that video...
The Beesneez looks cool. It looks like they have two versions, their Clone which is on sale for $1500 at the moment. Looks like that is an edition which allows them to save on construction by keeping the sonic sound, but allowing for different circuitry. They also have the Tribute 4 which is over 4k like other replicas I've seen.
rms also has a full replica and a tribute version. The RMS49 is a full blown replica for $4399 which includes a k47 or an M7 for an additional $100. Then they have the RMS49LE for $2999. It also comes with the K47 stock or the M7 as an upgrade. Both use a NOS 5703 tube, which he feels is sonically close the the AC701k. It works really well in my RMS269. Rob will also make it with however you want. If you grab a Thiersch M7 and want him to install it he will. If you grab a Neumann K47 he would install that for you as well. I've mentioned in passing that I'd like to try his RMS49LE at some point. I'm so busy with performances and my Christmas album there is just no time to film and edit a new video for my channel, so I haven't really pressed the issue. Maybe when AA is ready with their new CM47LE I'll try and get demos of each and make a video comparing all of them and my FleA 49. People can then hear M49 clones at 3 different price points. Hi Vincent, I have the prototype of the CM49LE working and I used it last night on a vocal. Still waiting inline for the larger CM49LE head grills to be manufactured. The other thing that has been keeping me occupied is that I
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Post by aamicrophones on Jun 22, 2018 17:52:22 GMT -6
Yikes, lost the internet halfway through the last sentence.
I have been occupied with a NOS VF14 that came into my possession for a short time. I have breadboarded up and exact U47 circuit with this tube and have been measuring all the parameters. I had to build up a custom regulated 35v dc supply as not damage the filamen and run it like Neumann did.
Going to try and runs some audio through it tonight.
Cheers, Dave
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Post by aamicrophones on Jun 22, 2018 18:10:44 GMT -6
Yikes, lost the internet halfway through the last sentence. I have been occupied with a NOS VF14 that came into my possession for a short time. I have breadboarded up and exact U47 circuit with this tube and have been measuring all the parameters. I had to build up a custom regulated 35v dc supply as not damage the filamen and run it like Neumann did. Going to try and runs some audio through it tonight. Cheers, Dave Attachments:
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Post by ragan on Jun 22, 2018 18:15:59 GMT -6
Yikes, lost the internet halfway through the last sentence. I have been occupied with a NOS VF14 that came into my possession for a short time. I have breadboarded up and exact U47 circuit with this tube and have been measuring all the parameters. I had to build up a custom regulated 35v dc supply as not damage the filamen and run it like Neumann did. Going to try and runs some audio through it tonight. Cheers, Dave Putting the "board" in breadboard. Love it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 22, 2018 18:23:08 GMT -6
Putting the "board" in breadboard. Love it. Yeah but that tube cost some serious bread😎
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 23, 2018 7:09:00 GMT -6
Yikes, lost the internet halfway through the last sentence. I have been occupied with a NOS VF14 that came into my possession for a short time. I have breadboarded up and exact U47 circuit with this tube and have been measuring all the parameters. I had to build up a custom regulated 35v dc supply as not damage the filamen and run it like Neumann did. Going to try and runs some audio through it tonight. Cheers, Dave This is very cool R&D. I’m looking forward to hear what comes of it. When we spoke at one point I believe you said you were also getting your hands on an AC701K to do the same R&D with for your CM49 & CM251. Did you do that already? It stinks that you’re still waiting on the larger headbaskets for the CM49LE. I’m sure it will all come together though.
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Post by aremos on Jun 24, 2018 16:07:56 GMT -6
Microphones that should be on all our want lists:
• Neumann M49
• Telefiunken ELA M251 (Upton's or Shannon's or Tele-America's will do)
• Neumann U48
• Neumann U67
• Chandler REDD
ymmv but I don't think it will Addendum: Sony C-800G (C-12 along 251)
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Post by roundbadge on Jun 25, 2018 4:44:19 GMT -6
Had the flea 49 and 49next here bland next to real Neumann m49c. Liked the flea47 more.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 25, 2018 7:14:00 GMT -6
Hey Vincent, it's so interesting that you shined on the M49, and on that same mic I sounded thin and nasal. You'd think it would be closer, but the U67 was incredibly different next to the M49 for me.
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Post by Vincent R. on Jun 25, 2018 11:29:55 GMT -6
Hey Vincent, it's so interesting that you shined on the M49, and on that same mic I sounded thin and nasal. You'd think it would be closer, but the U67 was incredibly different next to the M49 for me. You are not alone. jtc111 brought his FleA 47 over when I originally demoed the FleA 49 from VK. He sounded better on the FleA 47, Blue Stage II w/ B7 Cap, and imho the MK67, than he did on the FleA 49. It also brought out a nasality in his voice. Jim has a folk baritone voice. On his voice on his 47 was brilliant. The BLUE was close to the flea, but sounded almost EQed. It cut better, but wasn’t as big. The MK67 was a gentler sound, but worked. Mic choices depend on a number of things; firstly the source, secondly the style & vibe you’re going for. Some mics are more versatile than others. I love the U67 sound for it’s versatility. The 49 works well on higher voiced sources.
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Post by jtc111 on Jun 25, 2018 12:08:54 GMT -6
Hey Vincent, it's so interesting that you shined on the M49, and on that same mic I sounded thin and nasal. You'd think it would be closer, but the U67 was incredibly different next to the M49 for me. You are not alone. jtc111 brought his FleA 47 over when I originally demoed the FleA 49 from VK. He sounded better on the FleA 47, Blue Stage II w/ B7 Cap, and imho the MK67, than he did on the FleA 49. It also brought out a nasality in his voice. Jim has a folk baritone voice. On his voice on his 47 was brilliant. The BLUE was close to the flea, but sounded almost EQed. It cut better, but wasn’t as big. The MK67 was a gentler sound, but worked. Mic choices depend on a number of things; firstly the source, secondly the style & vibe you’re going for. Some mics are more versatile than others. I love the U67 sound for it’s versatility. The 49 works well on higher voiced sources. That night at Vincent R.'s place, I couldn't stand to even listen to myself through anything but the Flea 47. To my ears, every other mic brought out something in my voice that I'd rather not hear. But that 47 ...man, that is a special microphone. It had been recommended to me back in 2010 or so, but it really came on my radar when that YouTube video from TubeTestsShow came out in 2012. I didn't have the funds for it back then but by the end of 2016 my financial situation was much better and I inquired about a price at Vintage King. They offered me a nice deal and 6 months 0% interest financing. I figured it was time. That's still the most I've spent on a single piece of gear but I've never regretted it for a second. I didn't have a lot of time to record while I was working my day job but I retired on Friday. The Flea came out of its case yesterday and it may be a long time before it goes back in.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jun 25, 2018 12:54:21 GMT -6
Hey Vincent, it's so interesting that you shined on the M49, and on that same mic I sounded thin and nasal. You'd think it would be closer, but the U67 was incredibly different next to the M49 for me. You are not alone. jtc111 brought his FleA 47 over when I originally demoed the FleA 49 from VK. He sounded better on the FleA 47, Blue Stage II w/ B7 Cap, and imho the MK67, than he did on the FleA 49. It also brought out a nasality in his voice. Jim has a folk baritone voice. On his voice on his 47 was brilliant. The BLUE was close to the flea, but sounded almost EQed. It cut better, but wasn’t as big. The MK67 was a gentler sound, but worked. Mic choices depend on a number of things; firstly the source, secondly the style & vibe you’re going for. Some mics are more versatile than others. I love the U67 sound for it’s versatility. The 49 works well on higher voiced sources. Mic choice, after the room the best reason to leave it to a professional.
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