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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2017 9:40:39 GMT -6
Nope I Never used the reallab....If you own it try it to compare with the 7 th Heaven. I just used the 7th Heaven in mastering today and its impressive that you think it has been tracked like it sounds.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 7, 2017 10:00:25 GMT -6
I'm going to buy it Tuesday. (I'm waiting for some checks to arrive). I will compare it to the Relab of course.
I'm getting interested in this mastering technique with reverb. I've mixed all the tracks except one for my new album and already ran the final mixes.
Would I lose anything by bringing my final mix into a new project and adding the 7th Heaven reverb ? I'd have to bounce again that way.
* I do wish I had the exact settings saved of every one of my final mixes, but I often run three or more mixes, making little tweaks as I go. Occasionally I decide it was a previous day's previous mix I prefer, so getting back to that setting isn't even possible because it could be a dozen mixes ago. I guess I could begin saving every bounce as an alternative take, but I'd have fifty of them by the time I was close to finishing. Still, that would enable me now to rerun my exact chosen mixes and try the 2 bus reverb thing to see if it helps.
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Post by kcatthedog on May 7, 2017 14:09:25 GMT -6
Slate was offering the Relab 480 as part of his subscriptions service for an extra fee, but he stopped after about a year. My understanding is that those who subscribed to it still get it as long as they pay their higher subscription fee, but that you can't start it now.
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Post by drbill on May 7, 2017 14:28:25 GMT -6
IMO Relab (480) and Liquidsonics 7th Heaven (M7) are not anywhere similar. Conceptually. Haven't tried the plugs - but - even the V.2 M7 hardware attempts to emulate Lexicons hardware are not close. Just my $0.02.
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Post by viciousbliss on May 7, 2017 14:31:19 GMT -6
I think Relab offers a subscription for cheap. Last I tried the 480, I didnt find it as easy to work with or to be as good as SHP.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 7, 2017 15:07:34 GMT -6
The Relab has a very awkward way to get to presets. Instead of the usual option to click on presets in the GUI, scroll down and click, you have to click on Load, it accesses the presets from your hard drive, then displays them on a full white page. Next you have to choose from a bank of Halls or Plates and other options, that opens a new area on the side with a selection of types and sizes.
Basically it's a a long way around what should be easy to do. I sent an email to the developer, and he really couldn't see why I was disappointed with the design of the XL 480 as it is.
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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2017 15:53:18 GMT -6
I'm going to buy it Tuesday. (I'm waiting for some checks to arrive). I will compare it to the Relab of course. I'm getting interested in this mastering technique with reverb. I've mixed all the tracks except one for my new album and already ran the final mixes. Would I lose anything by bringing my final mix into a new project and adding the 7th Heaven reverb ? I'd have to bounce again that way. You remember the piano ballad which I gave you for critics... I just put 7 H on it, it is jaw dropping. Its a 60 bucks plug in... will buy tomorrow... https%3A//soundcloud.com/andreasoberholz/last-summer-without-svhhttps%3A//soundcloud.com/andreasoberholz/last-summer-with-svh
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 7, 2017 19:01:01 GMT -6
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Post by mrholmes on May 7, 2017 19:06:31 GMT -6
They work here on my laptop as well as on my I pad.... browser up to date? Ad blocker on?
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 7, 2017 20:04:26 GMT -6
I press the link from iPhone 7plus on mobile RGO, link does nothing. I switched to the desktop version of RGO and when I pressed the link it kept trying to open up Soundcloud on the iTunes Store as an app which I already have installed. I then tried to copy your link into SoundCloud and it was not valid... I will try again
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Post by ChaseUTB on May 7, 2017 20:11:17 GMT -6
Ok so I switched to desktop again and had to press and hold the link, then got to copy it and open it in SC and am listening now 😫😀 I kept trying to just click on the link and every time I did it went to open up the App Store... So weird probably my phone or iOS ..
You got some crazy vocal panning going on man lol
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Post by Johnkenn on May 7, 2017 20:31:51 GMT -6
Yeah, SoundCloud embeds don't show up as links on mobile.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 7, 2017 20:37:47 GMT -6
I just went back and forth with a few presets on SH and Slate verbsuite. The gain of the verbs is really different - i.e., VSC has way more gain. Also, strangely, some of the decay timeson the same presets are different. Once you match them, they are much closer. I do find the seventh heaven versions objectively better though. You can tweak the VSC to sound similar, but he SH just seems to be better out of the gate. Like the tail is dampened so it doesn't sound as metallic. The plates are particularly different with the SH sounding like, well, plates.
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2017 1:26:03 GMT -6
The big diffrence is if you crank the reverbs send level with SH the source just goes in the back of the room the slate just gets louder but you have no back room feel....
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2017 2:26:18 GMT -6
You got some crazy vocal panning going on man lol Gosh... Guess why I did it.... LOL
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 8, 2017 7:44:45 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those examples mrholmes. I listened on headphones. I'll listen on my monitors later. What I'm hearing is they're both good, and it really a choice you make. It could have been clearly worse adding reverb to a finished track, so not doing any harm by itself is impressive.
I'll try it myself later this week and maybe post a few A-B's and see which setting people prefer.
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Post by mrholmes on May 8, 2017 7:59:13 GMT -6
Thanks for posting those example mrholmes. I listened on headphones. I'll listen on my monitors later. What I'm hearing is they're both good, and it really a choice you make. It could have been clearly worse adding reverb to a finished track, so not dong any harm by itself is impressive. I'll try it myself later this week and maybe post a few A-B's and see which setting people prefer. Jupp I was surprised too. That´s what I meant for ø 60 bucks you cant go wrong with the SVH Junior. I find using myself the STUDIO A IRs the most so there is no reason for me to buy the big one - because the difference was to small to my ears.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 11, 2017 17:44:14 GMT -6
Just got it. Did a quick and dirty test. I was unsure if I preferred it when added as a reverb to a finished mix, but tried it on just the lead vocal of a track I'm almost done with. It's not my greatest track, but in context of an album, it fits in nicely. The Relab had a Medium room setting and for the 7th Heaven vocal I used the Studio C plate, so not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but that was my first choice when I scrolled through the presets of the LiquidSonics for the first time. I could possibly have put a pinch more reverb on the vocal in the 7th heaven track, but I thought it was close to being right, so I'll take a look again if it turns out people prefer the 7th Heaven on this track. Here are the links, see what you hear. I'd like to know which vocal sound you prefer and your impressions of the 7th Heaven in context. https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/heaven-knows-relab-xl480https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/heaven-knows-7th-heaven-test
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Post by viciousbliss on May 11, 2017 22:13:01 GMT -6
I much prefer the Seventh Heaven, it's not even close for me. Just listening on my K701 headphones direct into an ID14, but I'm not sure my opinion would change on speakers. The SH version is more cohesive, warmer, and the vocal more even. With the Relab it's like some stuff jumps out and some stuff is a bit low, guess you could say there's more dynamics. We could debate whether that's more preferable for the song or not. It's still very good though. I really can't find a lot of fault with the SH version. Is the test different than the other SH version you have posted? So SH is only being applied to the vocal or is it being applied to other things? It sounds like it's affecting the rest of the tracks and giving an overall warmer, fuller sound to the music as well.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 11, 2017 22:23:55 GMT -6
Thanks viciousbits, your input and impressions are really appreciated. I had finished mixing the track two weeks ago, so I opened it again, and just muted the Relab on the vocal, and added the SH.
Nothing else changed. But.. there's always a possibility a few parts could be ever so slightly different. Sometimes I run 3 or 4 different mixes, and then later on if I decide I liked mix #2, my tracks might have changed a little since I ran that bounce. I should save every bounce as an alternative I guess, but I'd have 50 of them if I did.
If I never go back to the original track, it doesn't matter, but if I do, there may be subtle differences. I think the only change that could possibly in this case was one of the two acoustic guitars could be a pinch louder on the SH track, but I can't be certain.
I noticed the same thing you did. Somehow changing the reverb on the vocal cleared things up in a way that the other tracks were clearer now. Maybe having the vocal go through the same reverb was crowding the other tracks?
I'd be curious what the other guys here think is happening.
This is interesting.. I'll experiment some more on Saturday. One annoying thing, if I decide I like this better, I may have to try it for an entire albums worth of finished tracks, ugh..
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Post by viciousbliss on May 11, 2017 22:46:40 GMT -6
One thing I do notice is that any reverb is going to be mixed in with everything else when bounced, like bleed. I've done bounces where I accidentally forgot unmute sends to a reverb track that was going directly to the master fader and it did sound different than if I just deactivated the reverb plug or aux altogether. I think that also happened when I once tried to use Sonnox Inflator in paralell via an aux. There was still some effect even though I muted the sends. Are you using one reverb aux for everything or reverb as an insert or send for the vocal?
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Post by ragan on May 11, 2017 22:59:19 GMT -6
Just got it. Did a quick and dirty test. I was unsure if I preferred it when added as a reverb to a finished mix, but tried it on just the lead vocal of a track I'm almost done with. It's not my greatest track, but in context of an album, it fits in nicely. The Relab had a Medium room setting and for the 7th Heaven vocal I used the Studio C plate, so not exactly an apples to apples comparison, but that was my first choice when I scrolled through the presets of the LiquidSonics for the first time. I could possibly have put a pinch more reverb on the vocal in the 7th heaven track, but I thought it was close to being right, so I'll take a look again if it turns out people prefer the 7th Heaven on this track. Here are the links, see what you hear. I'd like to know which vocal sound you prefer and your impressions of the 7th Heaven in context. https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/heaven-knows-relab-xl480https%3A//soundcloud.com/martin-john-butler/heaven-knows-7th-heaven-testReverb is a tossup to me. Nice song and singin' though, Martin.
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Post by donr on May 11, 2017 22:59:54 GMT -6
In Martin's example, the 7th sounded more like a room, and the 480L sounded more like a 'verb. Hard to say what was better for the song. My ears are used to hearing 'verbs on vocals, and liking them.
I've been auditing a lot of pop and 'country' tunes lately on streaming services. Can we assume the big label mixes all have Bricasti on them?
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Post by stratboy on May 12, 2017 4:36:55 GMT -6
I press the link from iPhone 7plus on mobile RGO, link does nothing. I switched to the desktop version of RGO and when I pressed the link it kept trying to open up Soundcloud on the iTunes Store as an app which I already have installed. I then tried to copy your link into SoundCloud and it was not valid... I will try again the iPhone substitutes a %3a for the : that should follow https in the SoundCloud link. You have to paste the link into your browser, then put the colon back. PITA, but it works. I don't know why this happens. Maybe an iOS expert can tell us?
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Post by jcoutu1 on May 12, 2017 7:41:29 GMT -6
In Martin's example, the 7th sounded more like a room, and the 480L sounded more like a 'verb. Hard to say what was better for the song. My ears are used to hearing 'verbs on vocals, and liking them. I've been auditing a lot of pop and 'country' tunes lately on streaming services. Can we assume the big label mixes all have Bricasti on them? I wouldn't assume that. I imagine that most of the big houses are still running Lexicon 480's and 224's. I'm sure the Bricasti's are trickling in, but I don't think they have the market share that the old Lex units have.
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