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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 22, 2017 10:34:11 GMT -6
Wonder how different the 12 and 20 are. 6.5" vs. 6".
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 22, 2017 10:39:49 GMT -6
I thought the atc 20 active was just great, except the price in cdn $'s
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Post by ericn on Feb 22, 2017 10:47:27 GMT -6
Wonder how different the 12 and 20 are. 6.5" vs. 6". The 6.5 in the 20's is very special the Dome of the ATC mid grafted into a 6.5, it's not a coax the dome uses the same motor as the rest of the woofer, but the thing works! Give me ATC or VOLT drivers any day!
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Post by jayfitz on Feb 22, 2017 10:54:21 GMT -6
Heard and sold many pairs of ATC's over the years, great speakers...but really, really digging the fullness and detail of the new HEDD monitors and now looking forward to see how the One15 and One18's compare when those arrive to us in a few days!
But, man, those HEDD monitors....whoa. Those should be in the running for anyone looking for speakers....the Type 07's for under $1700/pr, killer.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 22, 2017 11:03:30 GMT -6
Those are basically Adam AX7's?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Feb 22, 2017 11:09:11 GMT -6
Those are basically Adam AX7's? Yep! Of Course you have to live with the folded ribbon Tweet!
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Post by jayfitz on Feb 22, 2017 11:13:06 GMT -6
Nope. Aesthetics and model number are similar but sound-wise, not even close! We have stayed away from ADAM and EVE as sonically they really didn't do much for our ears, the HEDD's are a fresh design that blow those brands out of the water. We're the type of dealer that carries lines based on a sonic WOW factor, I hope I have a similar experience with the Amphions when they arrive in a few days!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 22, 2017 11:19:48 GMT -6
Nope. Aesthetics and model number are similar but sound-wise, not even close! We have stayed away from ADAM and EVE as sonically they really didn't do much for our ears, the HEDD's are a fresh design that blow those brands out of the water. We're the type of dealer that carries lines based on a sonic WOW factor, I hope I have a similar experience with the Amphions when they arrive in a few days! So the Adam founder (or designer or whatever) starts a new company producing a product that looks almost the same as the old, has a similar model number, and they sound totally different? If you're going to change them so much, why keep them so similar? It doesn't make sense to me.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Feb 22, 2017 12:15:40 GMT -6
Johnkenn I am really happy for you and I hope younger along with them well and make some more kick ass mixes! jayfitz In what ways does the Adam / Hedd monitor compare to Amphion or ATC.. Linearity, less distortion, improved xmax, resolution? Idk I have never heard an Adam or an eve I liked. ericn Of course we are buds man! I agree that the 5" will suffer from distortion, I also posit that most like to hear distortion in lower frequency octaves because it helps one hear the low octaves. When switching to a psi or an ATC the * Lack *of distortion and the precise time alignment of the drivers really gives people a magnifying scope into the audio. For some it's too much and like me, get lost in minutae, so for me it's about finding that perfect balance between clinical and musically transparent 😀 For me ATC and Barefoot are leaders in this category for me, mm45's happen to be more of an all on one type for me ( which some go against ) and why I am interested in them more than ATC plus price is huge factor. If I were in Europe I'm sure ATC would be my choice due economical factors.
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Post by jayfitz on Feb 22, 2017 15:15:27 GMT -6
Nope. Aesthetics and model number are similar but sound-wise, not even close! We have stayed away from ADAM and EVE as sonically they really didn't do much for our ears, the HEDD's are a fresh design that blow those brands out of the water. We're the type of dealer that carries lines based on a sonic WOW factor, I hope I have a similar experience with the Amphions when they arrive in a few days! So the Adam founder (or designer or whatever) starts a new company producing a product that looks almost the same as the old, has a similar model number, and they sound totally different? If you're going to change them so much, why keep them so similar? It doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, I know...I was skeptical as well, but they do sound clearer and fuller than the previous iterations from Klaus and his former partner. Let's not forget though, there was a reason ADAM was the go-to monitor for a long time.
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Post by jayfitz on Feb 22, 2017 15:16:39 GMT -6
jayfitz In what ways does the Adam / Hedd monitor compare to Amphion or ATC.. Linearity, less distortion, improved xmax, resolution? Idk I have never heard an Adam or an eve I liked. The Amphions are on the way to us currently, so I have yet to compare them to anything. Soon though...
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 22, 2017 17:17:50 GMT -6
Having had a7x and not understanding how the new hedd are really any different and after owning the amphion , I wouldn't expect to compare them very much at all as they are fundamentally different designs. Active vs passive, front ported and tuned vs closed and passive radiator, traditional tweeter vs transducer and very different crossover designs ( freq), Sure listen to them both to see which you prefer: full stop. The amphion are designed to have a natural un-hypped top end. If the hedd are like the adams they go out to 40 odd K, At first, I liked that top end but then grew not to: YMMV I only say this to put a little water in your "Wow" monitor wine. I personally don't want a monitor to wow me, just want them to be honest and natural
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Post by wiz on Feb 22, 2017 17:27:40 GMT -6
I have the A7's never heard the A7X's.... much different?
cheers
Wiz
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kcatthedog
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Post by kcatthedog on Feb 22, 2017 18:09:45 GMT -6
well they are like the mkii and I never had yours so can't say but I would think they are very similar, certainly a very good monitor: kind of comes down to personal preference ?
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Post by jayfitz on Feb 22, 2017 20:57:50 GMT -6
Having had a7x and not understanding how the new hedd are really any different and after owning the amphion , I wouldn't expect to compare them very much at all as they are fundamentally different designs. Active vs passive, front ported and tuned vs closed and passive radiator, traditional tweeter vs transducer and very different crossover designs ( freq), Sure listen to them both to see which you prefer: full stop. The amphion are designed to have a natural un-hypped top end. If the hedd are like the adams they go out to 40 odd K, At first, I liked that top end but then grew not to: YMMV I only say this to put a little water in your "Wow" monitor wine. I personally don't want a monitor to wow me, just want them to be honest and natural Yeah, agreed...the other brands mentioned earlier spun me off into HEDD land. I think my Wow reaction was just due to the fact that after working with the original ADAM line for so many years, then moving into Focal, then ATC, never really liking EVE, the Wow was due to more of a "Oh yeah I remember that sound" and now it seems to have been improved upon by Klaus. Apples and hammers to the Amphion I'm sure....and I'll hear that when ours arrive. Just doing Amphion pre-pro...
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Post by ludwigvanbeartrap on Feb 22, 2017 22:32:31 GMT -6
Just pulled the trigger on the ATC SCM 12's...$1790 over 36 months at Sweetwater was just too tempting...and I can always return... Congrats, you can't go wrong with a 30 day free audition...well, minus return shipping, I suppose. And less than 50 bucks a month? You'll never miss that, if you decide to keep them. What amp do you plan to use with these? Same as the Amphion (whatever one that is)? Thanks in advance for your impressions/review.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 22, 2017 22:35:24 GMT -6
I'm using a Lexicon NT 212 which is a rebranded Bryston 3bst
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Post by indiehouse on Apr 22, 2017 17:06:35 GMT -6
Heard and sold many pairs of ATC's over the years, great speakers...but really, really digging the fullness and detail of the new HEDD monitors and now looking forward to see how the One15 and One18's compare when those arrive to us in a few days! But, man, those HEDD monitors....whoa. Those should be in the running for anyone looking for speakers....the Type 07's for under $1700/pr, killer. Really curious to hear your thoughts of the HEDD's against the Amphions.
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Post by swurveman on Apr 23, 2017 8:08:23 GMT -6
I always lightly place my hand on the speaker surround when judging low stuff, like polarity of kick samples or whatever, or just referencing a mix whose low end I love with my own mix. Been doing it for years. I was just mentioning this to a friend the other day... we were talking about how we judge low end... I use my hand infront of the port on my A7s.... I can "feel" if there is too much energy long before I can hear it...that and there is a point in my room I go and sit... if its just a little too much there...its about right. I still have an issue in my room ...somewhere around 240.....but I have learned to live with it. Whatever gets you there ...right? 8) cheers Wiz Hey Wiz, when you say can feel there is too much energy, what is it relative to? The mid and high range, or the balance between the kick and bass?
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Post by duke on Jun 1, 2017 2:07:28 GMT -6
A passive radiator is in effect a type of port, and so the final rolloff rate will be 24 dB per octave, just like for any ported box. However depending on the design specifics, the initial rolloff rate may be much more gradual, and 12 dB per octave initial rolloff is possible. Gradual initial rolloffs usually start somewhat above the tuning frequency and extend somewhat below it, before accelerating to 24 dB per octave. My guess is that Amphion's engineers specified woofer parameters that would give their speakers an unusually gradual initial rolloff. In doing so they probably would have traded off some efficiency and/or lowest possible -3 dB point, but imo those would be good tradeoffs to make for this application because they would tend to preserve pitch definition (which can be compromised in ported designs).
Amphion may or may not disclose the resonant frequencies and other parameters of their woofers, but their published impedance curves reveal the tuning frequencies: About 50 Hz for the One15, and about 42 Hz for the One18. The lowest point in the dip between the two bass impedance peaks is the tuning frequency.
EDIT: For some reason my attempts to quote ChaseUTB have been in vain. Obviously I haven't figured out how this thing works yet.
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Post by stratboy on Jun 1, 2017 4:33:15 GMT -6
Welcome to RGO, Duke!
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 1, 2017 5:21:19 GMT -6
The amphion woofer and passive radiator are made by SEAS.
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Post by duke on Jun 1, 2017 7:00:17 GMT -6
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jun 1, 2017 8:16:56 GMT -6
Dang, too bad these ATC's weren't around when I got my Avantone Abbey's. I loved the $8,000 ATC's I heard at AES years back, but there wasn't an affordable ATC at that time.
I had the Adam A7X's, and they're not in the same class as my Avantone Abbey. The Adam's smears the high end, giving you a kind of glare in the highs. The Abbey's are 400 W. and go down to 35 Hz, so no sub needed. Still, I sure would like to hear these side by side, considering the pricier ATC's were my holy grail speakers then.
No cash or time to mess around with speakers right now, but I'm glad to know these exist and I'm looking forward to hearing more from John about them.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jun 1, 2017 8:55:19 GMT -6
I think JK returned them and kept his amphion?
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