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Post by schmalzy on Feb 9, 2017 23:38:56 GMT -6
Yo, y'all!
I'd love to hear about your lightbulb moments! I'd love to hear what/when caused a big change in your career/process/abilities. A compressor finally show you what it means to love another? A Bricasti reveal the depths of someone's soul as the exact same depth as a reverb algorithm?
I just had a damn lightbulb moment. I thought, up until about an hour ago, I was OK using what I understood to be bad monitors.
I had been using some KRK Rokit 5s for something like 4-ish years. I thought "I know these pretty well. I'm used to them. I've listened to great-sounding records on them over and over. I'm aware of what they're doing well and what they're not doing well and I've adjusted to them."
Well, it turns out I'm dumb.
I took a chance and ordered Zen Pro Mod Yamaha HS8 monitors - by far the most I've ever spent on recording stuff at one time (which is indicative of my gear budget range).
I'm listening to one of my favorite records and absolutely freaking out. There's stuff in there I hadn't heard and, if I had heard it, I'm HEARING IT CLEARLY now. I always thought "cool record that really lands emotionally, but the guitars are smeary." Nope. Not smeary. Midrange-y. The KRKs were terrible in the midrange (I now know). Now that I'm MUCH MORE CLEARLY hearing midrange I'll be able to manage it better. I. Just. Couldn't. Hear. It. With. The. Other. Monitors.
And that makes me angry at you jerks with Svart conversion and Barefoots, nice Focals, or whatever else you've shelled out a quincentillion dollars for (atrocious grammar, ugh). What are you people having presented to you in a much more clear way than I am?
Well, that's my most recent lightbulb moment. Tell me about yours!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2017 0:25:59 GMT -6
Also a monitoring thing. My first pair of active studio monitors were a pair of 2-way Tascams that really surprised me with their abilities to do their duty with this small speakers. I was even more surprised because i got them really cheap. Then, i wanted the whole thing and watched out for a very affordable pair of 3-ways and got a pair of older Klein&Hummels. This made a tremendous difference. They are incredible boring, dry, flat - and very merciless. If you mix has a flaw, you hear it immediately. It sticks out and makes the mix sound bad immediately. Fix it and everything is fine again. Totally uncomplicated for placement, because they were also developed for mobile monitoring, hanging from walls in a broadcast van etc.. The modern equivalent might be the Neumann KH310, since Sennheiser bought K&H and sells under the well-known quality Neumann brand. They really made it easy to check mixes for flaws and translation. Love them, one of the best buying decisions i ever made. Since then i was very aware of the importance of good monitoring. And what good monitoring means to me in the first case for mixing - showing up the flaws. Beeing unspectacular and boring and revealing.
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Post by allbuttonmode on Feb 10, 2017 5:31:50 GMT -6
When I installed Sonarworks Reference, and compared it to the bypassed signal. Wow... I know, I know, I know, nothing beats a tuned room. But when that's not an option, the Sonarworks software is a lifesaver. For me, anyways.
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Post by bartacusad on Feb 10, 2017 7:57:01 GMT -6
Using Mid-side processing on my mix. Absolute total game changer. I can't believe it took me 25 years to discover it!
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Post by terryrocks on Feb 10, 2017 7:58:00 GMT -6
Just a week back when I recorded my little 2-watt vox student amp with some pedals running through it for the first time. Such a big sound. I mean, obviously I'd read about little amps in the studio, but I've been using 15-45 watters.
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Post by terryrocks on Feb 10, 2017 8:01:22 GMT -6
Another one for me was the first time I tracked drums with capi preamps. Just the clarity of the imaging really opened my ears to what a good preamps could do.
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Post by svart on Feb 10, 2017 8:38:29 GMT -6
Yo, y'all! I'd love to hear about your lightbulb moments! I'd love to hear what/when caused a big change in your career/process/abilities. A compressor finally show you what it means to love another? A Bricasti reveal the depths of someone's soul as the exact same depth as a reverb algorithm? I just had a damn lightbulb moment. I thought, up until about an hour ago, I was OK using what I understood to be bad monitors. I had been using some KRK Rokit 5s for something like 4-ish years. I thought "I know these pretty well. I'm used to them. I've listened to great-sounding records on them over and over. I'm aware of what they're doing well and what they're not doing well and I've adjusted to them." Well, it turns out I'm dumb. I took a chance and ordered Zen Pro Mod Yamaha HS8 monitors - by far the most I've ever spent on recording stuff at one time (which is indicative of my gear budget range). I'm listening to one of my favorite records and absolutely freaking out. There's stuff in there I hadn't heard and, if I had heard it, I'm HEARING IT CLEARLY now. I always thought "cool record that really lands emotionally, but the guitars are smeary." Nope. Not smeary. Midrange-y. The KRKs were terrible in the midrange (I now know). Now that I'm MUCH MORE CLEARLY hearing midrange I'll be able to manage it better. I. Just. Couldn't. Hear. It. With. The. Other. Monitors. And that makes me angry at you jerks with Svart conversion and Barefoots, nice Focals, or whatever else you've shelled out a quincentillion dollars for (atrocious grammar, ugh). What are you people having presented to you in a much more clear way than I am? Well, that's my most recent lightbulb moment. Tell me about yours! I always say "monitors first" when people ask me what gear makes the biggest difference. They then go on to buy that mic they wanted anyway and then complain about it not being as good as they expected.. Which is exactly what I did back in the day. I took my tax return and did something brave.. I used all of it (and then some) to buy a pair of Gefell M930 mics (3000$ at the time), which were way more than I ever paid for any of my gear at the time. Once I got them, I eagerly tried them out.. And total disappointment happened. They didn't sound much *better* than anything else I had already, and no returns on special order mics, so I was stuck with them. Then one of my many lightbulb moments happened.. I took some mixes to a friend's house. He had a really high end stereo system. We listened to some of my mixes and I immediately noticed a huge difference in the tracks where I had used the Gefells. They sounded much, much better, as expected. It was then that I realized that I couldn't actually hear the difference between mics. it wasn't that the mic wasn't superior, it was that I couldn't hear the difference. When I got back to the studio, I listened to the tracks again, and I couldn't hear the differences I heard on the stereo. That's when I made the connection. I say this all the time and people just don't listen. Mics and preamps and outboard gear is all cool and trendy stuff, easy to mix and match and talk about, so it's always the go-to for conversations. Talk about monitors and folks will say "Oh, I'll upgrade them soon" or they'll say "I plan on working my way up to better monitors".. Guess what? They won't. The monitors will always be second to that new mic or preamp unless you sit down and come to the realization that you can't place a mic properly if you can't hear what it really sounds like.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 10, 2017 8:39:19 GMT -6
Monitoring for me, too. Svartbox > Yamaha M-40 class A amp > Tyler DMX monitors = holy s**t! So THATS what I was missing!?!
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Post by svart on Feb 10, 2017 8:46:21 GMT -6
Monitoring for me, too. Svartbox > Yamaha M-40 class A amp > Tyler DMX monitors = holy s**t! So THATS what I was missing!?! Tried looking for Tyler DMX monitors.. Couldn't really find anything about them. Do you have a link to some information?
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Post by mrholmes on Feb 10, 2017 8:54:58 GMT -6
Using Microphones instead of EQ was a light bulb moment... it made everything easier.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 10, 2017 9:24:48 GMT -6
Which is exactly what I did back in the day. I took my tax return and did something brave.. I used all of it (and then some) to buy a pair of Gefell M930 mics (3000$ at the time), which were way more than I ever paid for any of my gear at the time. Once I got them, I eagerly tried them out.. And total disappointment happened. They didn't sound much *better* than anything else I had already, and no returns on special order mics, so I was stuck with them. Then one of my many lightbulb moments happened.. I took some mixes to a friend's house. He had a really high end stereo system. We listened to some of my mixes and I immediately noticed a huge difference in the tracks where I had used the Gefells. They sounded much, much better, as expected. It was then that I realized that I couldn't actually hear the difference between mics. it wasn't that the mic wasn't superior, it was that I couldn't hear the difference. When I got back to the studio, I listened to the tracks again, and I couldn't hear the differences I heard on the stereo. That's when I made the connection. The problem I have with this is that most people don't listen on high end stereo system's anymore. They're more likely to listen on computer speakers, HK Onyx's, headphones etc. I just sold my Schoeps CMC64's. I expected a lightbulb experience from them, but they never translated well anywhere. I never listened to them on a true high end audiophile set of speakers, but if they didn't translate on all the types of speakers and headphones I listened to them on, it wouldn't have been good enough even if they did sound great on the most expensive speakers. Just my $.02
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Post by john on Feb 10, 2017 9:36:03 GMT -6
running vocals through the 1176/la2a combo. mind blown.
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Post by stratboy on Feb 10, 2017 9:40:03 GMT -6
Monitoring for me, too. Svartbox > Yamaha M-40 class A amp > Tyler DMX monitors = holy s**t! So THATS what I was missing!?! Tried looking for Tyler DMX monitors.. Couldn't really find anything about them. Do you have a link to some information? Tyleracoustics.com Mine are D3MX. Sorry about the error. My mastering engineer has Decade D1Xs. They are ridiculous.
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Post by swurveman on Feb 10, 2017 10:03:11 GMT -6
running vocals through the 1176/la2a combo. mind blown. Which 1176 do you have? What is your combination? I have both the hardware UA 1176/LA2A and I have never had the mind blown experience others seem to have. I've tried the 1176 first. Then second. With all kinds of gain reduction combinations between the two units and I usually just take the 1176 off. So, I'm curious about what type of vocal style (pop/folk/metal/punk?) the combination works on for you and how you use the combination of the two . Hope you don't mind me asking.....
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Post by john on Feb 10, 2017 10:20:46 GMT -6
running vocals through the 1176/la2a combo. mind blown. Which 1176 do you have? What is your combination? I have both the hardware UA 1176/LA2A and I have never had the mind blown experience others seem to have. I've tried the 1176 first. Then second. With all kinds of gain reduction combinations between the two units and I usually just take the 1176 off. So, I'm curious about what type of vocal style (pop/folk/metal/punk?) the combination works on for you and how you use the combination of the two . Hope you don't mind me asking..... Sure. I have the warm 76 and 2a. I use the 1176 first with maybe 3-5 db reduction happening for the highest peaks. Then the 2a is doing whatever sounds best in the mix. The needle is usually moving a fair amount and it sounds like butter. Most the work I get is from folks who are tracking at home. The difference between their raw takes and this combination is night and day. I find it most effective on busier/louder performances like hip-hop. For music that is slow and sung rather than spoken or yelled I would probably start with 2a alone like you.
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Post by unit7 on Feb 10, 2017 16:24:39 GMT -6
After like 5 yrs at my current place, turning it from project studio to mixing room and after a couple of weeks of work with acoustic treatment recording for the first time and able to really hear. Jaw dropping.
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Post by wiz on Feb 10, 2017 17:10:53 GMT -6
Which 1176 do you have? What is your combination? I have both the hardware UA 1176/LA2A and I have never had the mind blown experience others seem to have. I've tried the 1176 first. Then second. With all kinds of gain reduction combinations between the two units and I usually just take the 1176 off. So, I'm curious about what type of vocal style (pop/folk/metal/punk?) the combination works on for you and how you use the combination of the two . Hope you don't mind me asking..... Sure. I have the warm 76 and 2a. I use the 1176 first with maybe 3-5 db reduction happening for the highest peaks. Then the 2a is doing whatever sounds best in the mix. The needle is usually moving a fair amount and it sounds like butter. Most the work I get is from folks who are tracking at home. The difference between their raw takes and this combination is night and day. I find it most effective on busier/louder performances like hip-hop. For music that is slow and sung rather than spoken or yelled I would probably start with 2a alone like you. I actually do this the other way around... LA2A into 1176.. Both compressors aren't doing a lot.. and the 76 is taking off 1-2 dB at most... its catching the peaks if you will that the LA2A is too slow to grab.... thang of beauty... cheers Wiz
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Post by ChaseUTB on Feb 10, 2017 23:16:43 GMT -6
Hs8 are pretty dam good for the $. The zen pro mod removed the limiter so I would use a limiter on your DAW output when producing, mixing, recording or mastering. We have all flip thru those VI and hit an unruly synth patch that blows your ears off, that can blow your speakers now. Tracking drums and someone gains the kick or snare drum pre to high without a pad and the drummer lets it rip... bye bye monitors... Mastering or mixing and you accidentally route your full scale reference to your sessions mix/ master bus with your whole mastering chain instantiated... Boom bye bye monitors ...
The hs8 are pretty clinical and reveal sibilance which I like. The drop off hard in the low end after 40 hz. They don't reproduce overall compression meaning sometime it's hard to judge how compressed your reference mix/ master is vs yours. I use mine with the SF Apollo DA, calibrated to the K system. For me in my room The Apollo dial is at -18.0. This produced 83db per and 85-86 together when playing back pink noise at -20rms.
They do reveal distortion pretty well ( negative distortions ) sometimes I find I overdo the saturation. The mid range presents a lot of info. It took awhile for the crossover to disappear, maybe I adjusted ( 2500Hz ). For the amps in them they get loud, in sure yours will get even louder since they have no limiter in the circuit and are upgraded. Your mid range info will be pleasing if the songs are mixed well and havoc if not.
My light bulb was room treatment and my 3 8 x 4 x 4" Rockwool gobos and hearing things closer as they are coming from the DA or playback source. Also when I heard real Barefoot and real pricey to me monitors.. I knew I was missing a lot and that's motivation for me to work harder and get a pair 😀
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Post by stormymondays on Feb 11, 2017 3:36:15 GMT -6
Ludwig Black Beauty snare and Beyerdynamic M201. Best studio upgrade ever!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2017 9:33:33 GMT -6
M201 are great! Poor mans 441, also extremely versatile but a lot smaller. Love them.
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Post by svart on Feb 11, 2017 10:00:51 GMT -6
I do the 1176 into LA2A thing during mixdown. I rarely do it during tracking because the LA2A can add this fuzzy mushy thing to the mids if you're not careful, and it's impossible to get rid of once it's there.
I'll use a LA4A during tracking. It's slow enough to not have much effect beyond level control, but still clean.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Feb 11, 2017 10:18:51 GMT -6
I had the same experience with monitors many years ago.... until I realized magazine reviews are useless, especially when it comes to low priced gear. Once I started demoing monitors in my room, and went through several pairs, I started to realize the difference between monitors at all different price points. The downside of this approach is that I ended up spending a small fortune on new monitors.
The other more recent lightbulb moment was when I started mixing on a console, basically fully OTB. The sound and ergonomics were great, but the real lightbulb moment was when I realized that mixing a song was no longer a stressful experience. Turning the computer screen off, and just using my ears is so much more pleasurable for me and allowed my mixes to come together much quicker. I attribute that to being more focused on the sound, and allowing my brain's processing power to be fully directed toward what I was hearing, and not what I was seeing.
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Post by Ward on Feb 11, 2017 11:34:32 GMT -6
I do the 1176 into LA2A thing during mixdown. I rarely do it during tracking because the LA2A can add this fuzzy mushy thing to the mids if you're not careful, and it's impossible to get rid of once it's there. I'll use a LA4A during tracking. It's slow enough to not have much effect beyond level control, but still clean. Fuzziness? you say that like it's a bad thing.
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Post by Ward on Feb 11, 2017 11:36:36 GMT -6
I actually do this the other way around... LA2A into 1176.. Both compressors aren't doing a lot.. and the 76 is taking off 1-2 dB at most... its catching the peaks if you will that the LA2A is too slow to grab.... thang of beauty... cheers Wiz Someone else who preaches the exact same sermon I do!! Yes, an LA2a or CL1b first to do all the smoothing and leveling and then into an 1176 to catch all the spikes and peaks, and you have genius level fader rider style vocal evenness!!
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Post by gar381 on Feb 12, 2017 17:54:14 GMT -6
Here is a 80 light bulb moment. 40 channels of Sphere type Balanced Receivers. Gary
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