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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 12, 2019 18:22:26 GMT -6
Hopefully I'll be getting the parts today if USPS doesn't screw up. Then I'll get them both wrapped up. I've got the vintage outputs in mine with Litz transformers. Stock 5532 opamps. If you're feeling up to it grabbing some SOIC to DIP8 boards and swapping those 5532's out with an SOIC OPA1612 definitely sounds better. It might just be the differential setup but I swapped between the two many times and it's undeniable the 1612's are much smoother on the frontend. Brads DOA's sound great in nearly everything on the backend of these, although I think I'm running SL1731's ATM. I want to try the AMA4898 in them. Brads opamps are great. curious to hear them against all the gar ones though and the RED25
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 12, 2019 18:31:59 GMT -6
The GAR opamps certainly have a color to them. I've got a bunch of them, and if I'm going to work on something that needs to sound really retro'sh I'll pull the EQ's and put them in. Most of the time though I really love the sound of Scotts 1731's. If you're using the vintage output you only need to swap out one of the IC's, but it most certainly makes a difference in the sound. OPA2134's are drop able to drop in, but the new generation Burr Browns are by far my favorite.
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Post by drbill on Jan 12, 2019 18:34:43 GMT -6
Hopefully I'll be getting the parts today if USPS doesn't screw up. Then I'll get them both wrapped up. I've got the vintage outputs in mine with Litz transformers. Stock 5532 opamps. If you're feeling up to it grabbing some SOIC to DIP8 boards and swapping those 5532's out with an SOIC OPA1612 definitely sounds better. It might just be the differential setup but I swapped between the two many times and it's undeniable the 1612's are much smoother on the frontend. Brads DOA's sound great in nearly everything on the backend of these, although I think I'm running SL1731's ATM. Jerome - I'm felling a bit sheepish, but not being a DIY guy, I'm not sure what a SOIC to DIP8 board even is....
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 12, 2019 18:44:13 GMT -6
If you're feeling up to it grabbing some SOIC to DIP8 boards and swapping those 5532's out with an SOIC OPA1612 definitely sounds better. It might just be the differential setup but I swapped between the two many times and it's undeniable the 1612's are much smoother on the frontend. Brads DOA's sound great in nearly everything on the backend of these, although I think I'm running SL1731's ATM. Jerome - I'm felling a bit sheepish, but not being a DIY guy, I'm not sure what a SOIC to DIP8 board even is.... It just converts SOIC chips so they can be fitted into DIP8 sockets. You can get them on Ebay for hardly nothing. Now, the soldering for this is somewhat delicate and you need a really small tipped iron, but honestly maybe after one screw up or even after your first one you'll be good to go, nothing to it. They just don't make some of the better sounding IC opamps in DIP8, especially the newest generations, they have just forgone that footprint, so it's just a way to get the sound of those new opamps into units fitted with DIP8 sockets/footprints.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 12, 2019 18:48:50 GMT -6
The GAR opamps certainly have a color to them. I've got a bunch of them, and if I'm going to work on something that needs to sound really retro'sh I'll pull the EQ's and put them in. Most of the time though I really love the sound of Scotts 1731's. If you're using the vintage output you only need to swap out one of the IC's, but it most certainly makes a difference in the sound. OPA2134's are drop able to drop in, but the new generation Burr Browns are by far my favorite. Yeah i have gar25020 gar1731 gar918 garam10 and Rogue5 RED25 all of those to try. Plus a pair with 2503L and the stock transformer. So plenty to play with. Not sure ill swing for any SL stuff. Pricey, but they are awesome.
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Post by drbill on Jan 12, 2019 23:17:12 GMT -6
Jerome - I'm felling a bit sheepish, but not being a DIY guy, I'm not sure what a SOIC to DIP8 board even is.... It just converts SOIC chips so they can be fitted into DIP8 sockets. You can get them on Ebay for hardly nothing. Now, the soldering for this is somewhat delicate and you need a really small tipped iron, but honestly maybe after one screw up or even after your first one you'll be good to go, nothing to it. They just don't make some of the better sounding IC opamps in DIP8, especially the newest generations, they have just forgone that footprint, so it's just a way to get the sound of those new opamps into units fitted with DIP8 sockets/footprints. Aha....thanks for the education. But you probably need decent eyesight and exemplary soldering skills too..... I pass on the surface mount stuff! <<thumbsup>> I think I'll pass on those unless you can get the opamps pre soldered in.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 12, 2019 23:42:08 GMT -6
It just converts SOIC chips so they can be fitted into DIP8 sockets. You can get them on Ebay for hardly nothing. Now, the soldering for this is somewhat delicate and you need a really small tipped iron, but honestly maybe after one screw up or even after your first one you'll be good to go, nothing to it. They just don't make some of the better sounding IC opamps in DIP8, especially the newest generations, they have just forgone that footprint, so it's just a way to get the sound of those new opamps into units fitted with DIP8 sockets/footprints. Aha....thanks for the education. But you probably need decent eyesight and exemplary soldering skills too..... I pass on the surface mount stuff! <<thumbsup>> I think I'll pass on those unless you can get the opamps pre soldered in. You sure can www.cimarrontechnology.com/browndog-970601-so8-to-dip8-adapterLets you add all kinds of opamps in the options list. OPA1612 is only 14 bucks soldered with pins installed. So cheap i probably won't even bother soldering some up. Wish they had the opamp I want to try as an option.
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Post by drbill on Jan 13, 2019 0:37:37 GMT -6
SWEET!!! Thanks Blackdawg!!
OK. NOW we're talking'!!!!!!!!! Yeah, $14 is totally worth it. Now I must research opamps..... :-) Is the OPA1612 the class favorite at this point?
And of course, the next question becomes - which IC is the one to replace if you're using the FE transformer based output? IC1 or IC2?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 13, 2019 0:52:57 GMT -6
OK. NOW we're talking'!!!!!!!!! Yeah, $14 is totally worth it. Now I must research opamps..... :-) Is the OPA1612 the class favorite at this point? You're welcome Seems a lot of people really like that one. Thats what Jerome and indie put in theres. For 28 bucks Id try it! Jim prefers the AD4898 but thats not an option from there sadly. That is the one Im most curious about. Also seems to be backordered just about everywhere. The 1642 is also pretty popular choice. Oh and IC1 is the one you need to swap out(the one closest to the card pins on the right side as you look down on it). You aren't using IC2 if you have the Vintage output engaged.
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Post by ragan on Jan 13, 2019 1:49:28 GMT -6
Wait, so are we saying that different IC configurations sound different or just that different footprints allow different DOAs to be used?
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 13, 2019 2:08:10 GMT -6
Wait, so are we saying that different IC configurations sound different or just that different footprints allow different DOAs to be used? Uh...sort of both. The IC is what drives the signal into the eq. So it imparts a big chunk of sound. You could swap in different DIP8 IC opamps if you wanted. However none of the good new opamps are in that for factor. So if you use the small adaptor boards which they are all kinds you can try different newer better sounding opamps. Just make sure the operating voltages are correct for the circuit. In this case IC1 drives the eq input gain and IC2 is the output. However if you've install the vintage output you're then using discreet opamps and transformer to drive the output so you only need to change IC1.
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 13, 2019 13:32:38 GMT -6
SWEET!!! Thanks Blackdawg!! OK. NOW we're talking'!!!!!!!!! Yeah, $14 is totally worth it. Now I must research opamps..... :-) Is the OPA1612 the class favorite at this point? And of course, the next question becomes - which IC is the one to replace if you're using the FE transformer based output? IC1 or IC2? I would go with the OPA1612. It's going to be the faster one and the 1642 is a Jfet input, so you're going to get a little different response there. You could order both and see which you like best. I use both in circuits and it's really just about which you prefer, both are excellent. I'm not sure which IC it is, but throw in another 1612 there and have the option of bypassing the FE out and using pure SS front and back. I say go with the OPA1612 because it's the purest and fastest so it's going to deliver an extremely open and clean bit of gain into the EQ, from there when you twist and turn you're going into using the DOA, but the frontend and backend amps work in harmony. I like the frontend to be nice and clean and the backend to be where the color is happening. Most designers out there will tell you the 5532 in a circuit like this is perfectly fine, but use your ears and put them into play and you'll get why having that frontend IC really fast and open. That's at least what I came to find when I was dialing in mine. Also depending on what you're using these for, the Q adjustment is pretty important. To me these EQ's can rival some of the best SS Pultec clones, even the original's out there. I found that with a very wide Q they sound the best.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 13, 2019 13:53:43 GMT -6
As a "DIY Guy" I feel kind of mad at myself that I don't own these yet. Or any of the DIY Re gear for that matter!
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Post by drbill on Jan 13, 2019 13:57:19 GMT -6
Thanks for your thoughts Jerome!!
On the Q, are you dialing it in by ear or measuring the bell? I haven't had enough play time on them yet. Still waiting for parts on the 2nd one....
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Post by jeromemason on Jan 13, 2019 14:04:39 GMT -6
Well I use them on the buss so they're matched by the voltage or Ohms you read on the test points in the setup. But, to get to the width of the bell I started with them full wide and trimmed back little by little until I felt like it was similar to a car stereo when you adjust, so when I cut or boost I actually can hear something, and it doesn't take much at all. Now, if your'e going on individual instruments you might find you like it totally different, I don't know, but I'd suggest finding a setting you like and matching the other via the test points, but I will say that they are extremely musical in a very wide Q.
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Post by ragan on Jan 13, 2019 14:23:36 GMT -6
TFW your physics homework and the forum browsing you're doing to avoid your physics homework are talking about the same thing...
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Post by matt@IAA on Jan 13, 2019 14:29:47 GMT -6
Ha. Just wait until it’s your job. Then you really can never get free..
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 13, 2019 19:39:12 GMT -6
As a "DIY Guy" I feel kind of mad at myself that I don't own these yet. Or any of the DIY Re gear for that matter! Yes you need some! Get the EQs first I'd say. The passive summing mixer is cool too, couple of vp28s on the make up gain would be dope. What I'm going to try next. The ola5 is nice too, very different optical compressor Thanks for your thoughts Jerome!! On the Q, are you dialing it in by ear or measuring the bell? I haven't had enough play time on them yet. Still waiting for parts on the 2nd one.... You can match them with the two contact points under the trim pot. Just measure impedance (ohms). Keep in mind if your letter is sub par they won't ever truely be matched. I just picked up an EEVblog 121gw meter which is 0.2% accurate for most the range for resistance. My Fluke 115 is only 5%. I went wider with mine too. Around 2k ohms I believe. 2.2 maybe.. It's also only adjustment for the high frequency boost. Other bands are not affected.
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Post by professorplum on Feb 11, 2019 23:54:01 GMT -6
anybody try these on their master buss? curious how they'd sound for that specifically...
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Post by Blackdawg on Feb 12, 2019 8:52:52 GMT -6
anybody try these on their master buss? curious how they'd sound for that specifically... Always on there. And second pair for drums
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Post by professorplum on Feb 12, 2019 12:33:01 GMT -6
Blackdawg - what are you using for opamps/transformers in each and what differences do you notice? I saw some banter earlier in this thread about Jeff's 2503L transformer and lots of different opamp options. Seeing as how you have two pair I figured you'd be a good guy to comment!
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Post by Blackdawg on Feb 12, 2019 13:16:59 GMT -6
Blackdawg - what are you using for opamps/transformers in each and what differences do you notice? I saw some banter earlier in this thread about Jeff's 2503L transformer and lots of different opamp options. Seeing as how you have two pair I figured you'd be a good guy to comment! Well funny you should ask.. So i have a pair that are stock output Trannys and IC opamps. And a pair with 2503L Output trannys and stock IC op amps(NE5532P) For output opamps I have mainly used Brads Rogue5 Opamp. However.. I am in process of doing a large shootout of opamps. Right now i have the following: gar2520 gar1731 garAM10 gar910c Rogue5 REDD5 SS2590 APP992e Id like to add more to the list but this is plenty to start. That and I kind of like that they are all in the same general price point of $40 or less. I need to get some Hairball 990s in there too. I also plan on trying the OPA1612 in the input and probably a APP992DIP as well. So Im going to make a PT session for this and share it when its done. Then you'll be able to hear the difference in opamps and transformers yourself. I've only just begun this with burning in the opamps. So i don't have a ton of experience with the other opamps yet. I will say the Rogue5 is a great choice though. Its punchy and extended. So...eventually, I will have a lot to say on the opamps! haha Just not 100% yet. Hit a few kinks with a bad part in the new 2503L pair and I just got the replacement so should be starting in on the comparison this week.
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Post by professorplum on Feb 12, 2019 13:25:04 GMT -6
wow man really looking forward to your thoughts on those over the near future when you start testing them all! I'm not massively familiar with lots of different opamps, but really really like the Hairball 990s for a huge clean but vibey sound. Definitely worth an audition. Been curious about the Rogue5 though as I love Brads work in general; I'm sure they sound great too
Keep us posted!
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Post by Blackdawg on Feb 12, 2019 13:27:34 GMT -6
wow man really looking forward to your thoughts on those over the near future when you start testing them all! I'm not massively familiar with lots of different opamps, but really really like the Hairball 990s for a huge clean but vibey sound. Definitely worth an audition. Been curious about the Rogue5 though as I love Brads work in general; I'm sure they sound great too Keep us posted! You would not be disappointed with the Rogue5s. All the great stuff of the API sound but better. Really like them. Likely be my choice for a lot of the ML2 modules I plan on building. You're right I need to do the 990s. I'l order some today.
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Post by matt@IAA on Feb 12, 2019 13:31:29 GMT -6
Blackdawg - what are you using for opamps/transformers in each and what differences do you notice? I saw some banter earlier in this thread about Jeff's 2503L transformer and lots of different opamp options. Seeing as how you have two pair I figured you'd be a good guy to comment! Well funny you should ask.. So i have a pair that are stock output Trannys and IC opamps. And a pair with 2503L Output trannys and stock IC op amps(NE5532P) For output opamps I have mainly used Brads Rogue5 Opamp. However.. I am in process of doing a large shootout of opamps. Right now i have the following: gar2520 gar1731 garAM10 gar910c Rogue5 REDD5 SS2590 APP992e Id like to add more to the list but this is plenty to start. That and I kind of like that they are all in the same general price point of $40 or less. I need to get some Hairball 990s in there too. I also plan on trying the OPA1612 in the input and probably a APP992DIP as well. So Im going to make a PT session for this and share it when its done. Then you'll be able to hear the difference in opamps and transformers yourself. I've only just begun this with burning in the opamps. So i don't have a ton of experience with the other opamps yet. I will say the Rogue5 is a great choice though. Its punchy and extended. So...eventually, I will have a lot to say on the opamps! haha Just not 100% yet. Hit a few kinks with a bad part in the new 2503L pair and I just got the replacement so should be starting in on the comparison this week. If I send you some of my in-house M2 op amps would you include em in your shootout? I can send you pcbs and a bom or solder up a pair.
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