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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 17, 2017 9:26:58 GMT -6
I too thought it sounded good on a vocal track, but when I switched to just the Vari-Mu, it opened up, and was more lively.
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Post by drsax on Jan 17, 2017 9:35:42 GMT -6
I too thought it sounded good on a vocal track, but when I switched to just the Vari-Mu, it opened up, and was more lively. I've had mixed results with the Vari-mu. Sometimes sounds really great, and sometimes makes things sounds a bit closed up and more narrow. Voxbox reacts "more" like hardware to my ears. And I have a lot of of hardware, lol. But I know it's not equal to the hardware Voxbox.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 17, 2017 13:01:52 GMT -6
The UAD plug-in thing turned out to be no big deal at all. I was sweating it out because I thought I could apply $600 worth of coupons to a 6 plug bundle. Once I knew they don’t accept coupons for that, it all became just a “can you please switch plugs for me” thing. I’ve already gotten the VoxBox switched to the 1073, so I’m done for now.
I’ll have to choose one more plug between Feb 1st and 4th. I may find I don't love the 1073, but I plan to get a 1073 style preamp one day, and the 1073 plug may come in handy if I want to track something through the Apollo and keep in the same tone family. Of course, the plug isn't the real thing, but should be in the ballpark.
Hmm.. so now I have to see what I can use most, Shadow Hills for 2 bus mastering, one of the EQ's? (I have the Waves SSL's and the API's already, but care much for them)
I'll have $225 in coupons, so I can add whatever extra I need when the time comes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2017 18:45:54 GMT -6
+1 for La3a Good allrounder, i was surprised how often it could be used. Like it very much. I like it on bass and voice and it's worth a try on many other occasions.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 17, 2017 20:33:27 GMT -6
Thanks smallbutfine. It seems like every other interview I read of an A list producer says they use a LA3A, so I sure am curious. Since I now have the AKG BX-20 reverb, (which I'm honestly certain I will use and not bury in the "rarely to be seen again" plug-in closet), and the 1073, ( I chose that for insurance, to have at least one software Unison preamp), I can now take a little time to choose one more. I'll have a $225 credit, I must use between Feb 1st and 4th, so I can put in the extra few bucks if needed.
What I need to do is assess my needs, and see if there's something important missing. I'll miss the Vari-Mu, it's probably the best software compressor I've heard yet, but I've got a dozen of them, so I'll set my sights elsewhere.
My first priority is always getting a good vocal sound. I can't use my outboard EQ and compressors for a while because I sold my Dizengoff preamp to afford the upgrade to the thunderbolt Apollo. That move forced me to get a new computer at the same time, so gear money's gone for now. I will get another preamp, but might have to use the Apollo's pres for a while until I can afford it.
I'd like to have either an EQ I love that's easy to use, or a mastering compressor that's super clean. I have Waves SSL and API EQ's and Channel strips, which are OK, I have a bunch of superstar producer's plugs, and they honestly suck. In fact, there's not one that just felt right to me when turning a knob. The Harrison EQ I demo'd for a few minutes sounded good, but I didn't like the interface, I felt it wasn't intuitive. As mastering compressors go, I have Slate's FG-X, Apple's 6 different types of Logic X compressors, (the DBX is good), the Puigchild, I'm probably forgetting a couple, but the Waves L series are the easiest to use and sound the best, even though they're not really great.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 4:31:08 GMT -6
It's funny, but despite i have boatloads of plugins i used to use, i concentrate on the Harrison Mixbus inbuilt 32C EQ and their bus filters, which sound excellent and i find are very intuitive to use (dunno if the UAD version is really different?). Plus the inbuilt dynamics are astonishingly useful. They can be easily compared to 3rd party quality plugin dynamics and often they just win soundwise and are extremely easy to use. I am so pleased by the Harrison Mixbus console element sounds, that i bought a few of the LV2 plugins that they offer additionally. So far, i am very glad i did so. Very good bang for the buck, unfortunately they are not available in other formats, but this way my mixbus becomes platform independend. Since they offer demo versions in the meantime, i can only recommend trying out this stuff even when you use another DAW. Unbelievably good for downmix, and you can strip it even behind your favorite DAW in OSX and Linux via Jack. There are even detailed guides for Logic how to do this. It is such a complete system with outstanding component/plugin quality. You just reach out for the tool you need for the task and don't have to think about the quality, it just fits and works perfectly together...... (OK, sidenote because you mentioned the Harrison EQ plugin - Mixbus 32C brings this EQ as standard channel strip EQ, where it looks like pretty much most console EQs. I don't get the horizontal format really, maybe you mean this by non-intuitive UI?)
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 18, 2017 9:14:22 GMT -6
Thanks sbf. One of the other guys likes the Harrison mix bus too. I forget who, maybe Ragan? Anyway, I'll take another look at the Harrison, now that I have a little time, thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 11:22:47 GMT -6
I guess Robert/winetree is "the" Harrison guy around here. With lots of analog Harrison console experience and i think i read he uses Mixbus also. It gets much too little love from the community. I would take the small 79USD version with the simpler 3-band EQ above most clean DAWs with their inbuilt stuff every day of the week. Dead easy to mix, fast like on an analog console,and this is probably even more exciting than the sound qualities alone. Ya'know, like a good friend of mine, who is a senior stage manager and engineer at a bigger venue once said: Given a good console, you drive the faders and it just sounds good even before you touch the EQ. From my experience in mixing with analog consoles, this is so true. And i never got this feeling with plugins, no matter how good they were. It is the overall analog emulation design with all stages over the complete audio path that makes a great difference. Testing, hearing and using is believing. I barely need half the time for most mixes compared to Sonar or whatever you may give me to work with... It is only rivaled by realy downmix with the analog console, which is roughly as quick and fun. For me, the 32C EQ emu from Harrison is substantially better than maybe more than 80% of other plugin EQs, maybe even more. EQ and natural sounding and reacting console saturation and pleasing glue effects most pf the time are just not convincing in digital world of DAWs and plugins. Useful of course and you get the job done, but almost never as fun as the real deal. With Mixbus i have a hard time justifying that i still have a console fed by 24 DAC channels. In the meantime it is only the tradeoff haptical fun vs. total recall. And the Harrison has a fine vintage vibe that i really like and none ot the analog issues that almost certainly occur - noises, crackles, oxidized connectors, service time, Sooner or later and more or less regularly. Yepp, sounds like fanboy babble. I just say - demoe it. For me it's an ITB game changer since the very first mix on it.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 18, 2017 11:34:59 GMT -6
Tanks bro, I have some priorities the next week or so, like taxes and some major detail work, so I'll look into it when things lighten up.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jan 19, 2017 15:22:06 GMT -6
man, UAD got greedy. you see those prices for the bundles? it used to be 3/$400, 6/$800, 10/$1200. now it's 3/$700, 6/$1000, 10/$1300!! I get why they're pushing that "save $500 before March 31st". they still burn you with the plugin bundles. That quad core Apollo Twin MK2 is pretty cool tho.
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 19, 2017 16:21:44 GMT -6
A little NAMM 17 digression, it seems that the new UA OS update somehow has tweaked the dsp efficiency as people seem to be able to run in Console more UA plugs per channel/per sharc chip then they were able to in the previous OS.
This was noticed in a demo video and peeps are testing with their own systems and reporting more instances.
I don't think this has been confirmed and/or commented on by UA though ?
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Post by donr on Jan 19, 2017 16:44:00 GMT -6
Just watched the Apollo Twin MkII demo. Impressive. I really like the MkI.
Thinking of still using the Twin as monitor controller with expanded rig in new studio. No word on updated sharc chips?
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 19, 2017 17:11:45 GMT -6
Agreed, UA pulled off a good update , I think, no nothing from UA about dual core but this has the quad and as I mentioned people are reporting more plug loading per channel, like 2-3 more so if thats true x 4 chips, that ain't bad
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Post by kcatthedog on Jan 19, 2017 17:20:06 GMT -6
man, UAD got greedy. you see those prices for the bundles? it used to be 3/$400, 6/$800, 10/$1200. now it's 3/$700, 6/$1000, 10/$1300!! I get why they're pushing that "save $500 before March 31st". they still burn you with the plugin bundles. That quad core Apollo Twin MK2 is pretty cool tho. Ah, I think you are confusing registration bundle pricing with regular bundle pricing ? In term of perceived UA greediness, perhaps its the opposite, as prior to Christmas, they provided everyone the lower registration bundle prices 3/$399 etc., from the UA store for an extended period of time, but they went back up to regular bundle pricing at the new year. If you buy a new apollo ( rack unit), I think you will still get the lower registration bundle prices. This isn't from the store, you get a special pop up as you register your apollo from a different screen/site from UA. It normally stays live in your account for a while.
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Post by winetree on Jan 19, 2017 17:41:11 GMT -6
I guess Robert/winetree is "the" Harrison guy around here. With lots of analog Harrison console experience and i think i read he uses Mixbus also. It gets much too little love from the community. I would take the small 79USD version with the simpler 3-band EQ above most clean DAWs with their inbuilt stuff every day of the week. Dead easy to mix, fast like on an analog console,and this is probably even more exciting than the sound qualities alone. Ya'know, like a good friend of mine, who is a senior stage manager and engineer at a bigger venue once said: Given a good console, you drive the faders and it just sounds good even before you touch the EQ. From my experience in mixing with analog consoles, this is so true. And i never got this feeling with plugins, no matter how good they were. It is the overall analog emulation design with all stages over the complete audio path that makes a great difference. Testing, hearing and using is believing. I barely need half the time for most mixes compared to Sonar or whatever you may give me to work with... It is only rivaled by realy downmix with the analog console, which is roughly as quick and fun. For me, the 32C EQ emu from Harrison is substantially better than maybe more than 80% of other plugin EQs, maybe even more. EQ and natural sounding and reacting console saturation and pleasing glue effects most pf the time are just not convincing in digital world of DAWs and plugins. Useful of course and you get the job done, but almost never as fun as the real deal. With Mixbus i have a hard time justifying that i still have a console fed by 24 DAC channels. In the meantime it is only the tradeoff haptical fun vs. total recall. And the Harrison has a fine vintage vibe that i really like and none ot the analog issues that almost certainly occur - noises, crackles, oxidized connectors, service time, Sooner or later and more or less regularly. Yepp, sounds like fanboy babble. I just say - demoe it. For me it's an ITB game changer since the very first mix on it. Bought my first Harrison console in 1981 and still use it. I have both Mixbus and the 32C. I can use the same analog console workflow ITB and with the standard console features and some harrison plug-ins you could mix anything. It's the closest sound to analog with the console workflow I've found. I just started using the X-Touch controller with mixbus. I still have the Original Harrison console hooked up to an MTR 90 II and a radar recorder in the analog room.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 29, 2017 20:38:14 GMT -6
Well, I have a few days to choose my final plug-in. On Feb. 1st, I'll have a $225 credit. I have quite a few plugs in my Waves list, some I never even got around to trying. Where I stand now, is I got the 1073, and the BX-20. The 1073 was sort of for insurance, if I don't have a preamp or if I want a few extra 1073 type sounds, etc. The BX-20 was a real surprise, honestly useable on a few tracks in small and big doses. Thanks to John for getting me to look at that.
So, I'm looking at my needs, and have my thoughts focused on the Shadow Hills. I'd love a great 2 bus compressor. I plan the get the Stam SSL eventually, but for now, I'd like something better than the Slate FG-X or the L2 series, or the MU in Slates VBC. I have compressors in my Waves API and SSL EQ bundles too, but rarely use them.
I just looked at the BAX EQ for the first time. It seems really intuitive and very easy to shape the tone of the final mix with it.
John just gave me a couple of tips regarding the Elysia mastering EQ, and the side chain function works like a charm. I don't now the Elysia well, and the whole design is confusing to me, but the BAX seems intuitive. So I'm thinking, If I wrap my head around the Elysia and take some time to get to know it, will the Bax EQ be redundant, or is it just better?
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Post by Guitar on Jan 30, 2017 8:48:30 GMT -6
I agree the BX-20 is surprisingly good, I've been demo-ing it.
I have also been using the Elysia Mpressor a lot lately. I'm not sure if it's because I like it, or it's a new toy. Mostly on acoustic guitar and bass so far. It's got a big sound with character, and the built in tilt EQ is super handy.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 30, 2017 9:32:10 GMT -6
Just to clarify, I already have the Elysia EQ. So, at the moment, it's between the Shadow Hills mastering compressor and the BAX EQ. I guess I better find the time to try them both before choosing. Sometimes I just don't have enough spare time to experiment, so getting some input and advice here helps a lot.
It's frustrating because I have all sorts of compressors and EQ's, and one more seems redundant, but then I'm not fully satisfied with what I have. That's why I was bugging Steven Slate about his promised update to the FG-X. In early 2014, he promised an update, and said it would be free to all who purchased the FG-X. I kept hoping he'd top all the current mastering compressors out there, so I wouldn't have to buy yet another.
Ultimately, I'll get the Stam SSL, and only use a few plug-in compressors for their tone, not for mastering.
Does UAD have a signal analyzer that would identify hot spots on the 2-bus? I have a one year subscription to the Smooth plug-in, and it works like a charm on vocals. It can be as heavy or as transparent as you like. I guess that's why I'll try the BAX EQ, I only looked at their demo video, but it seems easy to tweak the final mix with it.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 30, 2017 10:17:27 GMT -6
Just to clarify, I already have the Elysia EQ. So, at the moment, it's between the Shadow Hills mastering compressor and the BAX EQ. I guess I better find the time to try them both before choosing. Sometimes I just don't have enough spare time to experiment, so getting some input and advice here helps a lot. It's frustrating because I have all sorts of compressors and EQ's, and one more seems redundant, but then I'm not fully satisfied with what I have. That's why I was bugging Steven Slate about his promised update to the FG-X. In early 2014, he promised an update, and said it would be free to all who purchased the FG-X. I kept hoping he'd top all the current mastering compressors out there, so I wouldn't have to buy yet another. Ultimately, I'll get the Stam SSL, and only use a few plug-in compressors for their tone, not for mastering. Does UAD have a signal analyzer that would identify hot spots on the 2-bus? I have a one year subscription to the Smooth plug-in, and it works like a charm on vocals. It can be as heavy or as transparent as you like. I guess that's why I'll try the BAX EQ, I only looked at their demo video, but it seems easy to tweak the final mix with it. Hey Martin, FG-X and the SHMC serve different functions. The SHMC is not a mastering limiter to get your tracks hot, but a dual section opto and vca compressor. From what I've read, the SHMC seems to get mixed reviews. I'm not sure how much time you've spent with the Red and Grey in VBC, but I personally like both a lot.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jan 30, 2017 10:58:20 GMT -6
Thanks for getting me to think more closely about it Jesse. I usually have the Grey and Red on my 2 bus, but use them for tone and a little compression, not much volume, maybe just a little. I was thinking the Shadow Hills was for volume and a final EQ. I have the Elysia Museq, and I've had trouble getting used to it, but it may be all the EQ on the 2 bus I need.
Also, Slate has their "Mu" compressor in my VBC, but it usually thins things out, so I don't use it. Still, perhaps I could learn to use that in place of the Shadow Hills.I remember not being that impressed years ago when I tried the Shadow Hills, but it's been so long, I forgot why.
I had hoped the Slate FG-X would get me closer to a mastered track level, but it's just too "digital edgy", if you know what I mean. I have a giant Waves bundle, and haven't even tried all of the compressors available to me. I've been using the L2, and it's not bad. I get a quick boost in volume and a little push on the vocal.
Since I have a $225 coupon to spend at UAD before Feb. 4th, I'm looking to see if they have a solution, but I don't see one. I guess that means I have to just choose something else, or lose my coupon. I liked the Manley Vari-Mu compressor, but I have a dozen compressors, so it's not a priority. I may even have a solution I haven't tried. I have things I got for free like Eventide's Ultra Channel that I barely looked at. I have the Waves SSL and API 2500, so I don't know if I should bother with the UAD version.
Basically what I'm curious about is, do I already a better way to get more volume I'm just overlooking?
If I do, then I'l have to see what else UAD offers I can use.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 30, 2017 15:21:46 GMT -6
I prefer the UAD SSL stuff over the Waves. I suspect the same is with the API but haven't done the "heavy vetting" on those yet, LOL!
Also I'm using the hell out of some Eventide stuff lately. I especially am in love with their reverbs.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2017 17:02:24 GMT -6
Now that I have the quad satellite, I will most likely get a better interface one day, and it would be good to know if I can include a few plugs, but keep those I use. I just tried the AKG BX-20 on a song, and I banged the hell out of it for fun. It really is a great addition to the arsenal. It has such a vibey sound without sounding like a room itself, kind of a substitute for plate reverbs in some circumstances. I'll need a little time before that honeymoon's over, but it sure is a blast to play around with. Thanks to everyone here who suggested it. It's one of the first plugs I've gotten in a long, long time, that I might actually use on a regular basis. The ATR-102, the Ocean Way and the Relab are the only plugs I can think of offhand that are on almost every project. I anxious to see if UAD will let me correct my mistake tomorrow of getting the VoxBox instead of the Vari-Mu. Did someone say earlier they use the Vari-Mu on the 2 bus? I use it on the 2 Bus. Similarly to how I use the MusEQ. Try the "Phil Tan Master" preset. Then flip the L/R to M/S...then disengage the link switch. Also flip the Sidechain. Now you can control the Mid with the left controls and the Side with the right. Again, you can really add more width with this...but a little goes a long way.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2017 17:07:36 GMT -6
I prefer the UAD SSL stuff over the Waves. I suspect the same is with the API but haven't done the "heavy vetting" on those yet, LOL! Also I'm using the hell out of some Eventide stuff lately. I especially am in love with their reverbs. I don't often notice differences in plugin EQs, but I definitely thought the UAD APIs were superior to the Waves versions. The BX-20 might be one of my favorite plugins right now...Also don't sleep on the Harrison 32C. Really nice top end.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 30, 2017 17:09:21 GMT -6
I prefer the UAD SSL stuff over the Waves. I suspect the same is with the API but haven't done the "heavy vetting" on those yet, LOL! Also I'm using the hell out of some Eventide stuff lately. I especially am in love with their reverbs. I don't often notice differences in plugin EQs, but I definitely thought the UAD APIs were superior to the Waves versions. The BX-20 might be one of my favorite plugins right now...Also don't sleep on the Harrison 32C. Really nice top end. Thanks for the tips. Duly noted.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jan 30, 2017 17:13:41 GMT -6
I don't often notice differences in plugin EQs, but I definitely thought the UAD APIs were superior to the Waves versions. The BX-20 might be one of my favorite plugins right now...Also don't sleep on the Harrison 32C. Really nice top end. Thanks for the tips. Duly noted. Me too on the Eventide stuff. Well, Tverb...You using the 2016 too?
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