16 Channel ADDA

I use the volume controls on my iMac leyboard


Cheers

Wuz

I've had both. I was on a Silverface Quad Apollo and picked up a used Motu 16a and sent it off to Black Lion to get it modded. It sounded really good. But I was having issues with the thunderbolt connection on my 2012 Mac mini. I was getting what sounded like jitter. Noise, clicks, pops, etc. Motu tech couldn't help me through it. USB was fine. But seeing how the Motu only has one TB port, it always had to be last in the chain. All of my audio had to go through my UAD satellite and my TB display monitor (which may not be an issue).

I jumped on the Apollo Satellite deal at the last minute last December and got a new BF Apollo 16. I know a dealer who will give you a very healthy discount, and I think I paid $2450 shipped. Even though I had both the BF Apollo 16 and Motu 16a at the same time, I didn't A/B them. I had intended to, but at the time I was working on 2 records and was slammed. I needed my rig to just work, and the Apollo delivered that.

I have to say, I really like the Apollo Console waaayy better than the Motu mixer engine. It's way more slick. It seems like the routing options are more versatile with the Motu, but you'll need to spend some time with it. Not super intuitive. Also, the Motu has more digital i/o. The Apollo just has 2 channel AES. I'm not sure how you would daisy chain two Apollo 16's together.

As for sonics, the BF Apollo 16 is very good. Don't be fooled by what you read about this not being a professional grade box. It very much is. I have a highly modded Ross Martin PCM4222 ADC and a highly modified Ross Martin Superbeast II DAC. Using my Drawmer MC2.1 monitor controller I was able to switch between the modified Superbeast II DAC and the BF Apollo 16 DAC. The Apollos DAC held up very well. The Apollo 16 has the upgraded DAC as compared to the rest of the line. There are differences between the modified RMA DAC and the Apollo 16. The RMA is a bit more open on top, wider, better clarity, etc. The differences, while apparent, are not huge.

Like I said, I had intended to compare the BLA modded Motu 16a with the BF Apollo 16, but I was under the gun. So, I threw up the Motu for sale and let it sit to see what happens until I could get a chance to compare. I jumped on the Apollo Satellite deal on the very last day, because of the problems I was having with the Motu. I needed to spend my time mixing, but I was spending my time troubleshooting the Motu and trying to figure out the Motu mixing and routing app.

I was going to shoot them out and sell the one that didn't win, but man, the Apollo just worked. I felt at home with the Console app, and could use their plugs while tracking, even if it is just for monitoring. Having access to UAD's verbs while vocal tracking is a huge plus. I also have the Fender Tweed amp sim (which is quite good) that I wouldn't be able to use for tracking without the Apollo. So, there's that.

So, some time went by and there was ssome interest in the Motu, but no takers. An offer came in at my asking price, and I took it. I'm happy with my decision. The price My dealer gave me on the Apollo (with the Satellite promo) was really, really great. The converters are great. The workflow is great. The plugs are great. The Motu has more digital I/O. I sometimes wonder about the difference in conversion, but when I factor in all of the pluses that the Apollo has over the Motu, I don't worry about it, especially after hearing the Apollos DAC against the modified Superbeast II (which I know to be super great). I pop into the Motu thread on GS from time to time, and it seems to be a consistent stream of driver issues, which may be what I was experiencing. Though, to be fair, for every person having driver issues, there is another for whom the Motu has been solid.

That's my experience, anyways. Both great boxes. I suspect the difference in conversion quality to be small. I think you should consider workflow more, because there is a difference there.

I've used the MOTU 16A since Feb '15, all the Mac drivers have been solid for me. I use a CalDigit Thunderbolt Station 2 dock connected to a 2014 MBP 2.5GHz i7/16MB RAM/512GB SSD, so the only thing plugged into the MBP are the TB2 and power cables. The dock runs the 16A off TB2, a 34" LED off HDMI, a HUI controller via ethernet, a SATA dock off eSATA, and a DVD burner/ATA drive dock/iLok off the USB3 ports. Latency has improved with the driver releases to the point that I've switched to monitoring native. This was a paradigm shift for me, but I love having a system that monitors punch-ins properly again. I still use the MOTU DSP mixer to let the players control their own mix via wifi, it's just fed by the individual track outputs from the DAW rather than the physical inputs.
The conversion is great and while I use the monitor controller on my Audient, I use the MOTU monitor/solo section to select which mix I'm hearing. The 16A sends four stereo mixes to the tracking room which feed a Presonus HP60 for hardware control/amplification. There are iOS devices at each player's position to control their individual 16A aux mix.

I'd like to hear about the Motu 16a and Windows. Anyone?

This is true, any core audio-based audio device is gonna respond to the volume keys on the keyboard. 

Using also a Motu AVB box on Windows (8.1 Pro). 24Ao, clocked and fed by a Mytek AD that is connected by the adat ports. The Motu running over USB. Works, is stable. Does not need drivers under Linux, they are only used to tunnel network for the internet server in the Motu that provides the interface and provided USB2 class compliant audio driver, that unfortunately is not provided as a system driver in Win 8.1.
Latency is o.k., we managed to monitor thru the DAW and still got low enough to record without noticable delay really. I did not even use the inbuilt effects and mixer, although it is very flexible, i just use the ins and outs. I/O matrices for me are easy to get into, quite similar to the ones in Mixbus, btw..
Sounds good. Really good. 16A from reports on this board does not fully reach 24Ao sonic performance due to more complex design efforts and using different chips, same generation, still very good.
I consider the newer Motus beeing really good bang for the buck. Class compliance make them future proof because you do not need proprietary Motu drivers, any USB 2 Audio class compliance driver does the trick. I would buy it again if lost or building another analog mixer setup.

One comment above re: apollo 16 should be able to link multiple units (up to 6 devices) on thunderbolt. In terms of price motu has no on board dsp right ? Only an attribute if you use ua plugs though ? The motu 16 conversion is the previous gen symphony mki one right ? Didn't the motu guy confirm that on the motu thread here a year ago ?

No love for the superior SSL gear?

It's not Thunderbolt right? Computers don't have PCI lots anymore.

blast form the rgo recent past :

Answers to a bunch of members' questions from Motu's MrMiller, he references the 16 and 24 further down ?



"MOTU 1248 anyone using one...? whats it sound like? Nov 12, 2014 at 6:28pm dandeurloo, wiz, and 3 more like this
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Post by mrmiller on Nov 12, 2014 at 6:28pm
Hey everyone!

My name's Michael Miller. I'm a software engineer at MOTU on the AVB team. I'd love to answer any questions you may have. I'll try my best to give as detailed responses as possible. Thanks deehope for inviting me over!

wiz Avatar
Nov 8, 2014 at 5:28pm wiz said:
I can't find any real useful information of their equivalent of RME's total mix... Cue mix?

if anyone comes across that sort of stuff, could you post a link in here please...

CueMix only works with the older interfaces, not the new AVB line. All the new AVB interfaces run a web server internally that serves a web app. You can control all the features of the box via any browser on the same network: your laptop, your desktop, your phone, etc. Multiple people can interact with it at the same time. You could give the artists iPads or phones and have them tweak their own headphone mixes, for example, while you take care of the big picture stuff. Features include flexible matrix routing, a 48-channel low-latency mixer, EQ, compression, reverb… You can also use it standalone as live mixer or DA without a computer. Rather than just keep listing features, though, here are some resources for you to look at if you're still interested!

1248 product page, with overviews of all the features
MOTU AVB resources including documentation, tutorial videos and FAQ

tonycamphd Avatar
Nov 12, 2014 at 3:19pm tonycamphd said:
I'm interested in the Motu Ao24, and curious to know how the power supply was implemented to maintain performance upon loading, every time i've demo'd converter units with 8 channels per converter chip, they seem to really flatten out, lose dimension and dynamic range when they are loaded up, how is this unit different in its design than say the antelope orion32(i'm aware that it specs better on paper)?

These units were re-designed from the ground up, informed by our experience building audio interfaces over the last 20 some years. Despite their similar looks, their internals have little in common with their predecessors. The DAC you're referring to—the ESS Sabre32 Ultra 8-channel—is a top-tier component. These are without a doubt the best sounding interfaces we've ever made and we're really proud of the result.

I don't know how the design for the Orion32 compares. In the end, it all comes down to a combination of objective measurements and subjective opinions. Users over at GearSlutz have taken their own measurements and others have chimed in with their opinions (thread here). Unfortunately, there aren't any professional reviews yet. If you're looking for an upgrade, I'd say find a unit from somewhere with a favorable return policy. Your ears are the ultimate test in all this!

tonycamphd Avatar
Nov 12, 2014 at 4:55pm tonycamphd said:
I don't know the op amps as of yet, hopefully Mike will chime in for us.

I don't know which op amp chips we're using off the top of my head. For ADC, we're using Cirrus Logic's flagship CS5381 in the 1248 and 16A. The 8M and 24Ai use the CS5368 instead for engineering reasons.

tonycamphd Avatar
Nov 12, 2014 at 3:19pm tonycamphd said:
Also, is there anyway to incorporate the Ao24 stand alone as a DA feeding my console with PT11? I've seen a lot of vids on the motu stuff, but I haven't seen anything on this.

Aside from the 24 balanced outputs, the 24Ao also has 3 banks of ADAT. If you've got ADAT out from your interface, that should work. All the new AVB interfaces work both attached to a computer and standalone. If you want to tweak settings on the box or change routings, just make sure it's accessible on your network, either connected directly to your computer via ethernet or to your wifi router or switch.
Last Edit: Nov 13, 2014 at 6:26pm by mrmiller: Misspoke... 48 channel mixer, not 32 channel.
Developer | MOTU


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Yes, for console, this was the point of getting the 24Ao, 24 quality outs to a console is hard to achieve at this pricing, and then in only one rack unit height. We use the 24 analog outs to console, SPDIF extra out to a RM Superbeast for monitoring, the Mytek AD is 8ch, 96kHz. At the moment, for mixdown, only two of them are fed from the console (all going thru master bus). Rest is used for standalone Mic Pre and DI to DAW or spare.
Works for us.