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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 16:30:57 GMT -6
good article thx !
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Post by Ward on Dec 23, 2016 16:31:26 GMT -6
mrholmes, the rolled up rug or insulation methods work to some degree, especially when money is tight. Did you miss that part?
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 23, 2016 16:35:35 GMT -6
mrholmes , the rolled up rug or insulation methods work to some degree, especially when money is tight. Did you miss that part? I know that they can work its physics I just typed down my experience...  I just typed down my opinion. Love and Peace from Germany... Holmes.... |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 23, 2016 16:57:56 GMT -6
mdmitch moving speakers closer to the walls you mean side walls or back wall (behind them) ? This seems counter intuitive as I would have thought bass response would be increased ? It will increase the bass response as they get closer to the rear wall, but the deep null will move up in the frequency range. You can observe this by moving your speakers around while measuring with room EQ wizard. Or get someone else to carry the speakers around while you watch the frequency response change. In my room, I had a deep null at about 60-70 hz, which made it extra hard to judge bass/kick. Moving the speakers closer to the wall raised that frequency up significantly to a more manageable 250 hz or so. I also used the bass trim on the speakers to compensate for the increased response. That article explains better... Also, if you can, try shifting your mix position left or right, again by moving the speakers around while watch REW. Sometimes a little off center one way or the other can provide the best response. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 17:23:45 GMT -6
You have already explained something that confused me as I pulled my monitors out into the room the bass response dropped off which was good but when I measured in REW or with sonarworks, the increased null confused me: I thought it was an anomaly. This is not a current REW graph but indicative:  I did a number of Sonarworks tests with different isolation products under the monitor (amphion one18's), but this also shows teh large null with teh monitors moved forward away from the wall.  |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 23, 2016 17:25:18 GMT -6
mdmitch moving speakers closer to the walls you mean side walls or back wall (behind them) ? This seems counter intuitive as I would have thought bass response would be increased ? It will increase the bass response as they get closer to the rear wall, but the deep null will move up in the frequency range. You can observe this by moving your speakers around while measuring with room EQ wizard. Or get someone else to carry the speakers around while you watch the frequency response change. In my room, I had a deep null at about 60-70 hz, which made it extra hard to judge bass/kick. Moving the speakers closer to the wall raised that frequency up significantly to a more manageable 250 hz or so. I also used the bass trim on the speakers to compensate for the increased response. That article explains better... Also, if you can, try shifting your mix position left or right, again by moving the speakers around while watch REW. Sometimes a little off center one way or the other can provide the best response. Thais a great adivse both things closer to the back wall and way more left in the room was a big part of the solution. |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 23, 2016 17:38:28 GMT -6
You have already explained something that confused me as I pulled my monitors out into the room the bass response dropped off which was good but when I measured in REW or with sonarworks, the increased null confused me: I thought it was an anomaly. This is not a current REW graph but indicative: I did a number of Sonarworks tests with different isolation products under the monitor (amphion one18's), but this also shows teh large null with teh monitors moved forward away from the wall. I'm always a little bit terrified to look at REW, but I guess it's better to be informed about the deficiencies in the room. One other thing that helped me was pushing my LCD display back so that it was completely behind the speaker drivers... of course, the console is a comb filtering nightmare too, but I can't do much about that.  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 17:51:54 GMT -6
nice , are those atc ? I have my monitor like yours.
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 23, 2016 17:56:57 GMT -6
nice , are those atc ? I have my monitor like yours. They're PSI a21m's, Swiss company. Very similar presentation to ATC |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 18:03:53 GMT -6
yes sorry I mispoke. I have wanted to demo them and atc.
Do they have the"precision" of sound that peeps talk about or how would you characterize them ? Do they need/prefer lots of power like atcs ?
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 23, 2016 19:00:24 GMT -6
yes sorry I mispoke. I have wanted to demo them and atc. Do they have the"precision" of sound that peeps talk about or how would you characterize them ? Do they need/prefer lots of power like atcs ? They're the flattest speakers I've heard (apart from some big ATC mains)... there's no low mid dip, no upper mid push. The transient response is also unmatched in anything I've heard, and I can work all day on them without a hint of fatigue. They're uncolored, so they won't 'wow' you with their presentation, but as a mixing tool I really can't fault them in any way. Being that they're flat and uncolored, they may not provide the 'guidance' that some speakers do, but that's why I also have an auratone to check mixes on. But if you just want to know whats there with detail and precision across the spectrum, they're fantastic, and comparable to the ATC's I've heard for a good bit less money. Oh and all the PSI's are powered I believe. There's a soundonsound review that covers a lot of the fancy (all analog) tech in the PSI line, and if you want to know how they compare to Amphion, Warren at ZenPro would be the man to ask since he sells both. He'll set up a demo for you too if you want to take a trip down the east coast! |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 19:11:59 GMT -6
Your comments confirm what I have read and researched. I am up in Canada and Studio Economik is 2 hours away they rep : amphion,atc and psi. I am planing a trip there next week anyway ! They are set up in an old studio and have the control room , behind a sealed solid stone double wall: set up for critical listening. Last time I was there all the monitors were on the bridge of a new neve board,I guess just for emphasis  |
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Post by mdmitch2 on Dec 23, 2016 19:31:17 GMT -6
Your comments confirm what I have read and researched. I am up in Canada and Studio Economik is 2 hours away they rep : amphion,atc and psi. I am planing a trip there next week anyway ! They are set up in an old studio and have the control room , behind a sealed solid stone double wall: set up for critical listening. Last time I was there all the monitors were on the bridge of a new neve board,I guess just for emphasis Cool!! Let us know your thoughts. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 19:39:08 GMT -6
Just checked cdn price and my wallet ran and hid in the corner but I will definitely audition them ! |
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Post by mrholmes on Dec 23, 2016 19:57:34 GMT -6
You have already explained something that confused me as I pulled my monitors out into the room the bass response dropped off which was good but when I measured in REW or with sonarworks, the increased null confused me: I thought it was an anomaly. This is not a current REW graph but indicative: I did a number of Sonarworks tests with different isolation products under the monitor (amphion one18's), but this also shows teh large null with teh monitors moved forward away from the wall. can you post a download link to your mdat file. |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 23, 2016 20:08:35 GMT -6
I installed the new REW update. How do I get the mdat file out of REW to post it somewhere ? Which selection in the drop down ?  |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2016 7:13:24 GMT -6
Oh I just realized I can save the mdat file anywhere, like any file, need more coffee |
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Post by kcatthedog on Dec 24, 2016 13:36:47 GMT -6
So I re-postioned my monitors roughly 1 foot off the front wall, so have moved them forward in the room roughly 1.5 feet. I didn't adjust any of the absorbers just moved my desk forward too. And as was stated , you can see that first node has moved up to almost 200 cycles and that the lower bass now just falls off naturally with no abnormalities. I listened to my track prior to doing the test and seeing the result and I could tell I was hearing the kick and lower bass more clearly and was much better able to distinguish between them. I rechecked the room measurements and they are a little different 103 w by 243 l x 93 h inches. I could move my right hand side wall as it just goes into the garage. How far would I need to move it to significantly improve the room nodes ?  |
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