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Post by rowmat on Dec 9, 2016 20:44:16 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). I have the DT880s which create the same problem as a speaker. And, some closed AT's which still leak too much. I'd actually like to find something with just one ear. I know I've seen them before (maybe in aviation). Is there anything like that with decent enough sound for tracking? We have Beyer DT770's (closed back) which are pretty common for tracking. They do have somewhat hyped low's and highs but are never-the-less still decent sounding and IMO are much better than our Sony MDR7506's which were jangly harsh and not very robust. We also have some ATH-M50X headphones which are smoother in the highs than the Beyers but I find them rather bass heavy. The DT770's are very comfortable and do seal better around the ears than the AT's and Sonarworks also offer an EQ calibration plugin if you want a flatter response. The Beyer's also stand up well to pretty high levels.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 9, 2016 20:54:15 GMT -6
Polarity is a big deal and a no-brainer when you hear the difference.
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Post by chasmanian on Dec 9, 2016 21:09:06 GMT -6
Christian, welcome. The tube I bought for my mic from you is excellent. The tubes for my headphone amp, also superb. They're not 1 ear, but I reiterate in this thread, that I love my Focal Spirit Professionals. They are just a tad tight new, and I do not have a large head. (I bought a new pair, when my original pair had a problem.)
But, I will gladly tell anyone who wants to know, what I learned about, if I want to decrease the tension on my new pair, should I choose.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 9, 2016 22:16:55 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). Well, that's why they make mechanical metronomes with a moving wand or electronic ones with a flashing light. Well, Bowie, I understand you're a pretty handy cat with an iron - make something out of a set with a dead side. It's just a minor mod to the plug end and chopping off the dead side. I have seen some one sided headsets but they're primarily cueing phones for djs.
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Post by bowie on Dec 9, 2016 23:00:32 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). I have the DT880s which create the same problem as a speaker. And, some closed AT's which still leak too much. I'd actually like to find something with just one ear. I know I've seen them before (maybe in aviation). Is there anything like that with decent enough sound for tracking? We have Beyer DT770's (closed back) which are pretty common for tracking. They do have somewhat hyped low's and highs but are never-the-less still decent sounding and IMO are much better than our Sony MDR7506's which were jangly harsh and not very robust. We also have some ATH-M50X headphones which are smoother in the highs than the Beyers but I find them rather bass heavy. The DT770's are very comfortable and do seal better around the ears than the AT's and Sonarworks also offer an EQ calibration plugin if you want a flatter response. The Beyer's also stand up well to pretty high levels. Thanks. I really love my Beyer cans and earbuds and have been leaning toward the 770. I hate to spend that much on tracking cans but I can use them elsewhere and I think it may be one of those inevitable purchases where I buy them and then wonder why I wasted 3 years thinking about it but not doing it.
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Post by bowie on Dec 9, 2016 23:03:15 GMT -6
Christian, welcome. The tube I bought for my mic from you is excellent. The tubes for my headphone amp, also superb. They're not 1 ear, but I reiterate in this thread, that I love my Focal Spirit Professionals. They are just a tad tight new, and I do not have a large head. (I bought a new pair, when my original pair had a problem.) But, I will gladly tell anyone who wants to know, what I learned about, if I want to decrease the tension on my new pair, should I choose. Chas! Was just thinking of you yesterday when helping someone with their headphone amp and GT rack gear. I'll looks into the Focals. Thx for the recommendation.
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Post by bowie on Dec 9, 2016 23:13:38 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). Well, that's why they make mechanical metronomes with a moving wand or electronic ones with a flashing light. Well, Bowie, I understand you're a pretty handy cat with an iron - make something out of a set with a dead side. It's just a minor mod to the plug end and chopping off the dead side. I have seen some one sided headsets but they're primarily cueing phones for djs. I've tried the flashing type and they just don't work out for me, but thanks. And, you're right, I really should DIY a 1-ear can. I have a couple of old sets I can use for this. Not only do I need them for myself, but I've had a lot of clients that like them on one-ear only and the other side often distracts them as it slips off their head. In fact, I'm looking at an old set as I type this and I bet I can keep the frame and cushioning ring for stability, and just core out the driver and housing to have a good sized opening. This should be fun.
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Post by chasmanian on Dec 9, 2016 23:40:13 GMT -6
Christian, the tubes I got from you that you recommended for my GT pre make it awesome. thank you. guys, you need tubes? this is your man to call, for extra sure!!
just saying, in my experience, the Focals are phenomenal. do let me know if you ever want me to tell you what I found out about IF one needs to make them looser on your head. it might be an important thing for you, perhaps for 2 reasons: - if they're not quite so tight, they're a little less closed. for me, that works really good. I can hear my acoustic guitar a little better, as I sing. - the distance from your ears to the headphone speakers, can be critically important. by which I mean, that if the cans are tight, it might smush the speakers right up against your ears, and affect your monitoring negatively. I speak only from my experience. as in all things, ymmv.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 9, 2016 23:50:44 GMT -6
We have Beyer DT770's (closed back) which are pretty common for tracking. They do have somewhat hyped low's and highs but are never-the-less still decent sounding and IMO are much better than our Sony MDR7506's which were jangly harsh and not very robust. We also have some ATH-M50X headphones which are smoother in the highs than the Beyers but I find them rather bass heavy. The DT770's are very comfortable and do seal better around the ears than the AT's and Sonarworks also offer an EQ calibration plugin if you want a flatter response. The Beyer's also stand up well to pretty high levels. Thanks. I really love my Beyer cans and earbuds and have been leaning toward the 770. I hate to spend that much on tracking cans but I can use them elsewhere and I think it may be one of those inevitable purchases where I buy them and then wonder why I wasted 3 years thinking about it but not doing it. The Beyers are available in 250 ohm, 80 ohm and 32 ohm impedances. We have an old Behringer HA4000 (works fine and is cheap) which can easily drive all six pairs of our 250 ohm versions to ear splitting levels (not recommended) if required. Lower powered headphone amps may struggle to provide enough to level with the 250 ohm versions but if you are running a decent cue system with enough power the 250 ohm versions will be kinder to your headphone amps especially if paralleling multiple pairs.
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Post by ragan on Dec 10, 2016 2:40:46 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). I have the DT880s which create the same problem as a speaker. And, some closed AT's which still leak too much. I'd actually like to find something with just one ear. I know I've seen them before (maybe in aviation). Is there anything like that with decent enough sound for tracking? We have Beyer DT770's (closed back) which are pretty common for tracking. They do have somewhat hyped low's and highs but are never-the-less still decent sounding and IMO are much better than our Sony MDR7506's which were jangly harsh and not very robust. We also have some ATH-M50X headphones which are smoother in the highs than the Beyers but I find them rather bass heavy. The DT770's are very comfortable and do seal better around the ears than the AT's and Sonarworks also offer an EQ calibration plugin if you want a flatter response. The Beyer's also stand up well to pretty high levels. Funny. I have AT M50s and Beyer 770s and every time I compare them the AT's sound more strident in the highs and the Beyers sound more relaxed/natural Subjective stuff.
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Post by rowmat on Dec 10, 2016 4:59:53 GMT -6
We have Beyer DT770's (closed back) which are pretty common for tracking. They do have somewhat hyped low's and highs but are never-the-less still decent sounding and IMO are much better than our Sony MDR7506's which were jangly harsh and not very robust. We also have some ATH-M50X headphones which are smoother in the highs than the Beyers but I find them rather bass heavy. The DT770's are very comfortable and do seal better around the ears than the AT's and Sonarworks also offer an EQ calibration plugin if you want a flatter response. The Beyer's also stand up well to pretty high levels. Funny. I have AT M50s and Beyer 770s and every time I compare them the AT's sound more strident in the highs and the Beyers sound more relaxed/natural Subjective stuff. The Beyer's are somewhat scooped but I found the ATH-M50X's response was more biased towards the low end which exaggerates proximity effect more so than the Beyers. In fact I would almost describe the AT's low end as bordering on being bloated. I haven't pushed the AT's very hard yet so they may become somewhat strident at higher levels.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 10, 2016 6:02:30 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). I have the DT880s which create the same problem as a speaker. And, some closed AT's which still leak too much. I'd actually like to find something with just one ear. I know I've seen them before (maybe in aviation). Is there anything like that with decent enough sound for tracking? I'd probably try uising a rhythm guitar track in place of a click...
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Post by swurveman on Dec 10, 2016 12:41:59 GMT -6
Would love to hear some more recommendations. I prefer speakers for my own performance but it's sometimes just not acceptable (particularly with a metronome track on a vocal/acoustic song). I have the DT880s which create the same problem as a speaker. And, some closed AT's which still leak too much. I'd actually like to find something with just one ear. I know I've seen them before (maybe in aviation). Is there anything like that with decent enough sound for tracking? I don't know if there's a one ear headphone, but sometimes I send the output on both the backing track and my vocal to the left ear of my headphones and take off the right ear which has no sound. I do this in the RME Totalmix mixer.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 10, 2016 19:02:59 GMT -6
Sennheiser hd280 pro are affordable and do a great job IMO. When I did record other artists ( rap, urban, RNB, all like LOUD headphones! ) I chose the 280 pro over the shure sh440, another affordable pair, that's isn't quite as " closed back, isolation fit " as the hd 280 pro. I wear a 7 3/8" fitted cap and the 280 can get pretty tight on me after about an hour. Not the best for SQ, however for tracking the 280 is great.
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Post by thehightenor on Dec 11, 2016 8:20:15 GMT -6
Interesting subject.
On the whole IME people, including myself track better with monitors rather than headphones - but it's a PITA to get perfect and can compromise a mix. I try these days to record my own stuff with monitors going as the results are just so organic and the feel is so much better.
BUT
When I use headphones on myself and other people, I've been using DT250's
BUT :-)
I've noticed recently that I and other people I've recently recorded pitch better on DT100's - dreadful as they are.
Which got me to thinking as to why? I came up with a theory that the transducer is further away from the ear than most headphones which reminded me of a point a great keyboard player friend of mine told me (who has amazing perfect pitch) that when he put on close fitting headphones he sensed the pitch being perceived as slightly higher then absolute pitch!
Sounds crazy I know, but I do trust this guy - his sense of pitch is insane, and it got me thinking as to why IME people, including myself seem to track really accurately with DT100's!
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Post by jjinvegas on Dec 11, 2016 10:33:49 GMT -6
I also dislike singing with headphones, and even though I prefer the sound of omni, I just set the mic up about six feet back from these monitors that are similar to auratone that don't have much bass signal. Headphones make most people sing sharp, which is way worse than flat. When I track people without a lot of recording experience I hand them an old Groovetube FET 55, no stand, and tell them to just experiment with where the sweet spot is and as you can feel the wind on your hand holding it they start to tune in to LDC mics and how your position affects the sound. Your typical pop filter on LDC hanging upside down invites little interaction, almost like playing guitar with gloves on.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Dec 11, 2016 13:41:31 GMT -6
Something that took me decades to figure out is that the people who like really loud headphones often wear them in front of and not over their ears!
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 11, 2016 13:54:34 GMT -6
I also dislike singing with headphones, and even though I prefer the sound of omni, I just set the mic up about six feet back from these monitors that are similar to auratone that don't have much bass signal. Headphones make most people sing sharp, which is way worse than flat. When I track people without a lot of recording experience I hand them an old Groovetube FET 55, no stand, and tell them to just experiment with where the sweet spot is and as you can feel the wind on your hand holding it they start to tune in to LDC mics and how your position affects the sound. Your typical pop filter on LDC hanging upside down invites little interaction, almost like playing guitar with gloves on. I don 't like pop filters either, they tend to generate/exaggerate sibilance. Instead I tend to put the mic above the plane of the mouth, angled down. You see that placement a lot in old studio shots from the '50s and '60s.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 11, 2016 17:09:22 GMT -6
I've been getting good results lately using the SM57 in front of the monitors method. The louder the speakers are, the louder I want to sing, which usually sounds a lot better that a wimpier performance.
For some reason in this little, quiet room, my singing can get a bit little and quiet compared to when I'm in a big room with a bunch of people, and I have to actively work against that sometimes.
When I do wear headphones, it seems like most of the time I put one ear off, and one ear on. I like to hear my own voice acoustically.
Basically, I hate headphones all around. But my favorite closed backs for general purpose use seem to be the ATH-M50s. And my favorite open backs for listening are the AKG K702. I only wear them when I absolutely have to.
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Post by iamasound on Dec 12, 2016 7:40:36 GMT -6
I have never ever contimplated singing while monitoring with speakers. My forever issue when singing with cans covering my ears is that I am hyper critical of every single nuance. Every slight imperfection that I percieve seems to make me "shy" as takes go by, it sort of inhibits me from performing with and using my natural abilities. Singing in the forest while walking my dog or singing to cows in the barns around my village (cows love it when you entertain them as their lives are usually quite boring. They also dig my harmonica playing, at least that's what they tell me %) I am open and powerful. With cans it like I crawl inside and hide. I am going to experiment using my umt70s in figure 8 with the null aimed towards the speakers. Thanks for dredging this idea up from the bog of my subconsious memories, I have a sneaking suspicion that this will work out really, really well.
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Post by Guitar on Dec 12, 2016 9:46:41 GMT -6
I have never ever contimplated singing while monitoring with speakers. My forever issue when singing with cans covering my ears is that I am hyper critical of every single nuance. Every slight imperfection that I percieve seems to make me "shy" as takes go by, it sort of inhibits me from performing with and using my natural abilities. Singing in the forest while walking my dog or singing to cows in the barns around my village (cows love it when you entertain them as their lives are usually quite boring. They also dig my harmonica playing, at least that's what they tell me %) I am open and powerful. With cans it like I crawl inside and hide. I am going to experiment using my umt70s in figure 8 with the null aimed towards the speakers. Thanks for dredging this idea up from the bog of my subconsious memories, I have a sneaking suspicion that this will work out really, really well. I love the image of you singing to the cows, and your dog in the forest. Thank you for that.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Dec 13, 2016 1:02:51 GMT -6
I have never ever contimplated singing while monitoring with speakers. My forever issue when singing with cans covering my ears is that I am hyper critical of every single nuance. Every slight imperfection that I percieve seems to make me "shy" as takes go by, it sort of inhibits me from performing with and using my natural abilities. Singing in the forest while walking my dog or singing to cows in the barns around my village (cows love it when you entertain them as their lives are usually quite boring. They also dig my harmonica playing, at least that's what they tell me %) I am open and powerful. With cans it like I crawl inside and hide. I am going to experiment using my umt70s in figure 8 with the null aimed towards the speakers. Thanks for dredging this idea up from the bog of my subconsious memories, I have a sneaking suspicion that this will work out really, really well. Hello, record your self in front of the mic, performing how your best with the speakers going, no headphones rock out! Then when you nail your takes, record yourself in the same way, with the monitors going, however no lip movement or singing. After recording the no sing pass, flip the phase one the no sing take and playback simultaneously with the awesome singing performance you just did. In theory everything should cancel out due to the phase and you should be left with your amazing singing performance recording... If I am feeling nervous or intimidated, I turn up the HP nice and loud, use a trim plug to boost +9-12db on the audio track I am recording onto and let her rip. With preamp gain around 30-35, the added 6-12 db really helps you stay in pocket because you can now hear every nuance of your performance in the cans. Every lip smack, weird mouth noise, odd breath, dog fart etc.
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Post by longscale on Dec 13, 2016 16:12:18 GMT -6
Christian, the tubes I got from you that you recommended for my GT pre make it awesome. thank you. guys, you need tubes? this is your man to call, for extra sure!! just saying, in my experience, the Focals are phenomenal. do let me know if you ever want me to tell you what I found out about IF one needs to make them looser on your head. it might be an important thing for you, perhaps for 2 reasons: - if they're not quite so tight, they're a little less closed. for me, that works really good. I can hear my acoustic guitar a little better, as I sing. - the distance from your ears to the headphone speakers, can be critically important. by which I mean, that if the cans are tight, it might smush the speakers right up against your ears, and affect your monitoring negatively. I speak only from my experience. as in all things, ymmv. I'm interested in what you do to the Focal Spirit Pros. I have them - they are punchy and fast - but start to bug me comfort wise quickly. Hope Focal picks up a better head model/form to help them with their design soon. Typically that is the feedback I get on these. Most people nearly instantly either hate them or love them; mostly based on the fit. As for other suggestions; I'd second the ATH-M50x's. I much prefer them over my DT770 Pros (80 ohm) which I find to be quite bass heavy. I've found headphones to be quite personal as far as preference. You really just have to try them - I wish it was not that way. I've got a small collection of them that I had to go through in order to find what works for me. For me tracking my voice I most often reach for the ATs. I used to lean on the Focals, but the ATs are just way more comfortable on my head for longer periods of time. But having said all that - I do prefer to track without headphones. I enjoy the results and my performances way more than when I have to use headphones. If I'm forced into having to use a click I use a Peterson BodyBeat. Works like a charm for me anyway.
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Post by chasmanian on Dec 13, 2016 16:42:55 GMT -6
Be glad to. Will reply back with info tomorrow.
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Post by johneppstein on Dec 13, 2016 17:56:40 GMT -6
If I'm forced into having to use a click I use a Peterson BodyBeat. Works like a charm for me anyway. Never heard of that before. Thanks!
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