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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 19, 2016 22:16:29 GMT -6
Hmmm. I've owned three Wunders. Don't have any of them anymore (although that could be said about 90% of my equipment)...I Wunder what's different? "We've optimized the recipe of the passive components in all our microphones and then perfected it. The result is a quantum leap in presence." Marketing much?
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Post by roundbadge on Jul 19, 2016 22:59:36 GMT -6
Yeah i remember having a CM7 and some of those mic pres. A U47 with more presence? well it aint a 47 anymore is it?
Remember the marketing tag "Takes the Veil off your Sound"?! I remember Mike telling me how much better they were than 1073's. Well in hindsight imo it was Utter BS. they were copies of channels from John Paul Johns personal "Allotrope" console which was never used for any real releases as far as I know. I still use my 1084's every day.the PEQ's are long gone. yup they were clean kinda boring mic pre /eq's.
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Post by bricejchandler on Jul 20, 2016 3:02:53 GMT -6
I owned a CM7 M7 for 4 or 5 years and ended up selling it because each time I used it next to a U47 I rent quite often, I just felt a little underwhelmed. It sounded great on softer voices, but where the original seemed to compress and thicken the signal when singing loudly into it, the Wunder got smaller and a little pinched sounding. But the guy I sold it too seems to be super happy with it so .
Sometimes I actually go back and listen to some of the tracks I recorded with it and on some sources it did sound really amazing, but for now I think I'm better off renting occasionally.
I'd love to add a U47 mic to my collection but I just haven't found one that sounded as good as the original, though I haven't tried all the clones out there.
I too get a little tired of some "better than the original", "improvement over the original design" marketing out there, I've spent a lot of cash on clones and was often a little disappointed, the exception beeing my AEA R44 that I actually like a lot more than the originals that I've used.
I also got to try the Wunder 4 and thought it was pretty bland, I was comparing it to my mercury M72S and some Thermionic pres and I just didn't get it, particularly since here in Europe it's more than 5K for the 4 channel version...
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Post by thehightenor on Jul 20, 2016 5:34:22 GMT -6
I've got an early serial number Wunder CM7 that's really great- it seems to get better with age.
Very close to U47's I've used and has that reedy midrange in buckets with a soft top end and I can really belt into it and it sounds fantastic.
So I can't really see where Mike is going with this, as more presence is the last thing I would want from a CM7.
Maybe it's the need to move forward with his range as he now has FLEA bitting at his heels?
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Post by rowmat on Jul 20, 2016 6:34:57 GMT -6
Compared a standard CM7 with a Flea 47 eighteen months ago and went with the Flea.
The CM7 really didn't impress me all that much and was almost 4 grand (AUD) more than the Flea which seemed way too much.
Still digging the Flea!
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2016 7:08:42 GMT -6
Yeah i remember having a CM7 and some of those mic pres. A U47 with more presence? well it aint a 47 anymore is it? Remember the marketing tag "Takes the Veil off your Sound"?! I remember Mike telling me how much better they were than 1073's. Well in hindsight imo it was Utter BS. they were copies of channels from John Paul Johns personal "Allotrope" console which was never used for any real releases as far as I know. I still use my 1084's every day.the PEQ's are long gone. yup they were clean kinda boring mic pre /eq's. You would think the guy who lives just down the road from Rupert would nail it! But yeah Wunder has this way of taking the excitement out of everything , maybe that it's Suprema is the excitement !
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 20, 2016 7:19:10 GMT -6
I'm loving this thread. Let's keep up the Wunder isn't that good talk and cure my GAS for the Wunderbar (which I would never be able to afford anyway).
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2016 8:05:39 GMT -6
I'm loving this thread. Let's keep up the Wunder isn't that good talk and cure my GAS for the Wunderbar (which I would never be able to afford anyway). It is pretty!
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 20, 2016 9:03:01 GMT -6
Yeah i remember having a CM7 and some of those mic pres. A U47 with more presence? well it aint a 47 anymore is it? Remember the marketing tag "Takes the Veil off your Sound"?! I remember Mike telling me how much better they were than 1073's. Well in hindsight imo it was Utter BS. they were copies of channels from John Paul Johns personal "Allotrope" console which was never used for any real releases as far as I know. I still use my 1084's every day.the PEQ's are long gone. yup they were clean kinda boring mic pre /eq's. Yeah - "more presence"...the absolute last thing I want lol I was in VK about 6 months ago - just perusing mics - and they had a Wunder CM7 and Flea 47 side by side. Threw on some headphones and listened...and was kind of blow away with how much more I preferred the Flea.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 20, 2016 9:15:39 GMT -6
I owned a CM7 M7 for 4 or 5 years and ended up selling it because each time I used it next to a U47 I rent quite often, I just felt a little underwhelmed. It sounded great on softer voices, but where the original seemed to compress and thicken the signal when singing loudly into it, the Wunder got smaller and a little pinched sounding. But the guy I sold it too seems to be super happy with it so . Sometimes I actually go back and listen to some of the tracks I recorded with it and on some sources it did sound really amazing, but for now I think I'm better off renting occasionally. I'd love to add a U47 mic to my collection but I just haven't found one that sounded as good as the original, though I haven't tried all the clones out there. This has TOTALLY been my experience too. I couldn't find a variation of the capsule that didn't pinch. I really think that's indicative of the quality of the capsule. Mike was nice - he sent several different variations of the M7 (different picofarad measurements) but when I would find something low enough pF to not pinch, it just had zero top end. That being said, I also had the experience of listening back to some stuff (and I think it was even the glass tube version) and going, "Damn, that sounds really good." Sometimes I know I get too close to something and let the one little flaw determine my entire opinion of the mic...but pinching on big dynamics is a pretty big flaw.
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Post by joseph on Jul 20, 2016 10:25:17 GMT -6
Flea 47 is a great mic. Not as soft top as a real 47 but has a nice non-modern vibe and sits similarly in a mix.
Handles loud singing pretty well. Also sounds good on females, or a little off axis or in omni.
So definitely good capsule design.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 20, 2016 17:58:10 GMT -6
Flea 47 is a great mic. Not as soft top as a real 47 but has a nice non-modern vibe and sits similarly in a mix. Handles loud singing pretty well. Also sounds good on females, or a little off axis or in omni. So definitely good capsule design. 47's aren't generally regarded as a 'go to' female vox mic but I have found our Flea 47 into a Mercury V76m preamp has been excellent overall for female vocals. Switching pre's to a Mercury V72s provides more body and weight and tends to suit the fellers more. Currently fitting switchable 680/1200 ohm termination resistors to our Heritage/Neve rack as the top end can get a little edgy without them when driving high impedance inputs but that's not the mic's fault.
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Post by joseph on Jul 20, 2016 19:02:11 GMT -6
Flea 47 is a great mic. Not as soft top as a real 47 but has a nice non-modern vibe and sits similarly in a mix. Handles loud singing pretty well. Also sounds good on females, or a little off axis or in omni. So definitely good capsule design. 47's aren't generally regarded as a 'go to' female vox mic but I have found our Flea 47 into a Mercury V76m preamp has been excellent overall for female vocals. Switching pre's to a Mercury V72s provides more body and weight and tends to suit the fellers more. Currently fitting switchable 680/1200 ohm termination resistors to our Heritage/Neve rack as the top end can get a little edgy without them when driving high impedance inputs but that's not the mic's fault. Yep, that 47/male association is what I was alluding to, and also that omni can sound better on female vocals in general. I've found likewise that the Flea top is very responsive to preamp/impedance changes.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 20, 2016 19:36:26 GMT -6
Flea 47 is a great mic. Not as soft top as a real 47 but has a nice non-modern vibe and sits similarly in a mix. Handles loud singing pretty well. Also sounds good on females, or a little off axis or in omni. So definitely good capsule design. 47's aren't generally regarded as a 'go to' female vox mic but I have found our Flea 47 into a Mercury V76m preamp has been excellent overall for female vocals. Switching pre's to a Mercury V72s provides more body and weight and tends to suit the fellers more. Currently fitting switchable 680/1200 ohm termination resistors to our Heritage/Neve rack as the top end can get a little edgy without them when driving high impedance inputs but that's not the mic's fault. Yeah - when I used Jeff's V76 it had this fantastic top end sheen. It had a forward top without sounding bad - in fact it sounded awesome.
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Post by rowmat on Jul 21, 2016 1:13:35 GMT -6
47's aren't generally regarded as a 'go to' female vox mic but I have found our Flea 47 into a Mercury V76m preamp has been excellent overall for female vocals. Switching pre's to a Mercury V72s provides more body and weight and tends to suit the fellers more. Currently fitting switchable 680/1200 ohm termination resistors to our Heritage/Neve rack as the top end can get a little edgy without them when driving high impedance inputs but that's not the mic's fault. Yeah - when I used Jeff's V76 it had this fantastic top end sheen. It had a forward top without sounding bad - in fact it sounded awesome. I find the V76 lets the top through but manages to keep it sweet which is important for female vox. I'm tweaking the output termination load on the Heritage and Neve preamp's and have decided to install switches on the Heritage Rack 8 so I can choose between 600/0/1200 ohms depending on the input impedance of the next stage. I reckon there's probably plenty of instances when mismatched transformer output/input impedances manifest as excessive sibilance/harshness due to preamp output transformer ringing and the mic gets the blame.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 21, 2016 7:51:02 GMT -6
Yeah - when I used Jeff's V76 it had this fantastic top end sheen. It had a forward top without sounding bad - in fact it sounded awesome. I find the V76 lets the top through but manages to keep it sweet which is important for female vox. I'm tweaking the output termination load on the Heritage and Neve preamp's and have decided to install switches on the Heritage Rack 8 so I can choose between 600/0/1200 ohms depending on the input impedance of the next stage. I reckon there's probably plenty of instances when mismatched transformer output/input impedances manifest as excessive sibilance/harshness due to preamp output transformer ringing and the mic gets the blame. I really never play with impedance switching...guess I should.
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Post by ChaseUTB on Jul 21, 2016 13:06:43 GMT -6
How do passive electronics help the presence , clarity, and dimension of the mic's capture?
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Post by jakeharris on Jul 21, 2016 17:57:29 GMT -6
How do passive electronics help the presence , clarity, and dimension of the mic's capture? That blurb just means they're now using better or boutique capacitors and resistors. Apparently as a result, the products now sound better. They were using some pretty standard crap before, so... could be true.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 22, 2016 7:31:34 GMT -6
In my experience, the capsule is 90-95% of the sound. Sometimes I think some of the electronics stuff is overestimated.
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Post by redlir on Jul 27, 2016 20:44:53 GMT -6
I was actually shopping around the other day for a FET VO mic for general streaming online. I'm using a Flea 47 right now, which is actually working well, but I'm apprehensive about putting 4+ hours a day on her throughout the year.
I was looking at the CM7 FET as a possible cheaper alternative to tracking down something like a Vintage U87 or Neumann FET reissue. I noticed they had this new Suprema line now. What's interesting is they state this in the blurb "This is a workhorse studio mic for all sources, especially vocals, making it reminiscent to a 1970's era U87!"
I've heard some decent comparisons between the existing CM7 FET and the classic Neumann 47 FET. I wonder how much different these Suprema versions sound?
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2016 20:50:12 GMT -6
I was actually shopping around the other day for a FET VO mic for general streaming online. I'm using a Flea 47 right now, which is actually working well, but I'm apprehensive about putting 4+ hours a day on her throughout the year. I was looking at the CM7 FET as a possible cheaper alternative to tracking down something like a Vintage U87 or Neumann FET reissue. I noticed they had this new Suprema line now. What's interesting is they state this in the blurb "This is a workhorse studio mic for all sources, especially vocals, making it reminiscent to a 1970's era U87!" I've heard some decent comparisons between the existing CM7 FET and the classic Neumann 47 FET. I wonder how much different these Suprema versions sound? I wouldn't worry about the Flea, but if I wanted a back up I would talk to our own Shannon aka Sinsay. I'll bet you will be happier and have more left in your wallet.
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Post by redlir on Jul 28, 2016 9:37:49 GMT -6
I wouldn't worry about the Flea, but if I wanted a back up I would talk to our own Shannon aka Sinsay. I'll bet you will be happier and have more left in your wallet. My wallet is always open to quality mic options lol. Do you have a link?
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Post by tasteliketape on Jul 28, 2016 9:41:10 GMT -6
Here's the link to Shannon at micrehab that Eric mentioned micrehab.com/I 100%agree with Eric call him
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Post by mcirish on Jul 28, 2016 10:01:32 GMT -6
I've got a CM7GTS/M7 and did send Mike an email about getting the Suprema mod. It's $150, which isn't all that much money. My biggest concern is wondering if there is enough sonic difference to make it worthwhile and if it changes too much, I might not like it all that well. I personally have wanted just a little more smooth top end on my Wunder. Might be worth it but I hate sending it out and not seeing it for a month. I'm currently in too many sessions with it.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 28, 2016 10:16:50 GMT -6
I wouldn't worry about the Flea, but if I wanted a back up I would talk to our own Shannon aka Sinsay. I'll bet you will be happier and have more left in your wallet. My wallet is always open to quality mic options lol. Do you have a link? First of all welcome to RGO ! Shannon is our own Shannon Rhoads of Mic rehab.com. Shannon is not just my first call , but also the first call of Blackbird and pretty much every major in Nashville these days when it comes to mic repair ,restoration, or tweeting. Give Shannon a call he will tell it like it is. Or buy the MK47 assembled by our own danderloo with Shannon's capsule Rick Foxx has in the classifieds before I or somebody else who gets how special this thing is for $1100, spend some time with it and hen send it to Shannon to make it just right for you!
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