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Post by swurveman on May 25, 2016 12:38:35 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand why a used Lexicon 480 goes for $4,500.00 on eBay, while a new PCM 92 goes for $1,700.00?
From my understanding, Lexicon pissed a lot of people off by the poor fire wire implementation of the PCM 96. However, how did a company whose legacy hardware products still are getting premier prices 30 years later lose its reputation? They must have had a treasure trove of product development information and hit a lot of home runs. What happened?
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Post by mulmany on May 25, 2016 12:48:26 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand why a used Lexicon 480 goes for $4,500.00 on eBay, while a new PCM 92 goes for $1,700.00? From my understanding, Lexicon pissed a lot of people off by the poor fire wire implementation of the PCM 96. However, how did a company whose legacy hardware products still are getting premier prices 30 years later lose its reputation? They must have had a treasure trove of product development information and hit a lot of home runs. What happened? Harman bought them! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 25, 2016 13:22:17 GMT -6
I'm trying to understand why a used Lexicon 480 goes for $4,500.00 on eBay, while a new PCM 92 goes for $1,700.00? From my understanding, Lexicon pissed a lot of people off by the poor fire wire implementation of the PCM 96. However, how did a company whose legacy hardware products still are getting premier prices 30 years later lose its reputation? They must have had a treasure trove of product development information and hit a lot of home runs. What happened? Harman bought them! There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! |
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Post by mrholmes on May 25, 2016 14:44:37 GMT -6
There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! If its true lucky we are to have enough other companies with great reverbs. Wait AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMMMM 7 |
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Post by guitfiddler on May 25, 2016 15:59:32 GMT -6
And I saw a pcm 80 going for less than $500 in really good condition.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 25, 2016 16:39:19 GMT -6
There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! If its true lucky we are to have enough other companies with great reverbs. Wait AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMMMM 7 Bricasiti ! TC Yamaha! |
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Post by mulmany on May 25, 2016 19:28:08 GMT -6
If its true lucky we are to have enough other companies with great reverbs. Wait AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMMMM 7 Bricasiti ! TC Yamaha! Unfortunately TC was bought by Music Group (the B company) |
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Post by ericn on May 25, 2016 19:41:37 GMT -6
Unfortunately TC was bought by Music Group (the B company) Everybody I know who has been involved with any of the companies purchased by the Music Group has said they have been a great Conpany! I am one of Behringers biggest critics, but comparing Music Group to Harman and what they have done with their purchases is night and day. |
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Post by mrholmes on May 25, 2016 20:20:07 GMT -6
If its true lucky we are to have enough other companies with great reverbs. Wait AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MMMMMMMMMMMM 7 Bricasiti ! TC Yamaha! True I found a new tech I hope he will be alive for the next decade because it makes the impression he awakes everything back to live. Had a problem with one of my old Yamaha Reverb 500 he not only found the old chip, he also replaced it and serviced the battery. The best is he is retired and charged me something like 30 bucks. I love this old man.... |
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Post by mrholmes on May 25, 2016 20:28:30 GMT -6
And I saw a pcm 80 going for less than $500 in really good condition. That maybe has to do with the fact that plug in reverbs can sound great when summed OTB. The last mix I did I used some of the Altiverb Reverb Chamber impulses which simply matched the choir and the solo guitar. Take the Lexicon PCM Native Bundle or the great Expotential Audio reverbs. I think in both domains you can meet magic in reverbs. Take the UAD EMT 250 for guitars - its nothing but WOW. |
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Post by donr on May 25, 2016 20:32:41 GMT -6
There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! Yeah, there is. Have Gibson buy them. (Opcode, Steinberger, Tobias, etc.) |
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Post by donr on May 25, 2016 20:34:56 GMT -6
There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! Yeah, there is. Have Gibson buy them. (Opcode, Steinberger, Tobias, etc.) Oh yeah, and Oberheim. |
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Post by rowmat on May 25, 2016 20:42:14 GMT -6
There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! Yeah, there is. Have Gibson buy them. (Opcode, Steinberger, Tobias, etc.) I had an Opcode Sonicport which failed after about 3 months. I took it back to the dealer for a warranty repair/replacement and was told that Gibson had purchased Opcode and were no longer honouring Opcode's warranty. I ended up with a $700 door stop!  |
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Post by donr on May 25, 2016 20:46:27 GMT -6
Opcode's StudioVision was the feature template for early DAW's, until they got bought by Gibson and basically shelved after failing miserably to support and market new stuff.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on May 26, 2016 7:23:18 GMT -6
Yeah, there is. Have Gibson buy them. (Opcode, Steinberger, Tobias, etc.) Oh yeah, and Oberheim. OK you win! What do you call a brand new Gibson Electric made by the guys who really know how to build a LP? Heritage ! |
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Post by swurveman on May 26, 2016 7:51:21 GMT -6
There is no better way to fuck up a perfectly good company than have Harman buy them! I'm curious about this, because nobody could quite detail why exactly Lexicon - who had a treasure trove of R&D and engineers to boot- could not keep using that knowledge and at least re-release famous reverb units once they were bought by Harmon. What did Harmon specifically do to impede this process? I have a Bricasti which has a "Tiled Room", "Random Hall" and some other rooms that I presume were modeled with Lexicon in mind. Honestly, I have never gotten on with my Bricasti. I never have that "feels like a record" - at least the ones I grew up on- from it. I find it to be a dark reverb without much magic for what I do- dense commercial rock. It is my one high end piece of gear that I constantly question it's value. So, I'm thinking about taking the Lexicon plunge, and as my future is going to be OTB, I am looking at hardware where Lexicon- though not the only reverb of the 70's, 80's and 90's - was still very often used and is part of the sound. |
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Post by rob61 on May 26, 2016 7:59:54 GMT -6
I use a Lexicon 480L, and "it's the sound". Its what they used back then, and its still a desirable sound. As soon as you dial it up, it's "yep, that's it" kinda response. The new plug-ins are getting better all the time, but I've never felt the Lexicon plug-ins were much like the 480L in a mix. There are others more useful in a lot of ways when staying ITB. But if you're going for that classic 480L sound (on all those older records), the straightest way there (and perhaps the only way there) is with a 480L.
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Post by joseph on May 26, 2016 9:28:19 GMT -6
Relab LX480 is a true reverse engineered 480L. Casey from Bricasti even agreed.
That guy Martin is insanely meticulous, and he revealed some of his methods as well as specific shortcomings of the UAD recreations over at KVR.
So you could put that in a computer on a rack for a much cheaper 480L. It really does sound the same and at the very least will get you the Lexicon sound.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 26, 2016 10:20:16 GMT -6
I have the Relab 480XL, and it actually sounds better than I remember the hardware 224 did if memory serves. I've often thought of picking up one of the older PCM Lexicon pieces, just for fun.
I bought the PCM 60 the first day it came out. It had limitations, but gave my tracks THAT sound at home, which was brilliant at the time. I sold it all years ago.
What is unusual to me is why Lexicon wasn't at the forefront of modeling and marketing its own plug-in line. They would have kept their brand in the game that way. I don't know a thing about coding, but they already had all the codes, I think it wouldn't have been difficult to make it a plug-in.
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Post by swurveman on May 26, 2016 10:26:38 GMT -6
Relab LX480 is a true reverse engineered 480L. Casey from Bricasti even agreed. That guy Martin is insanely meticulous, and he revealed some of his methods as well as specific shortcomings of the UAD recreations over at KVR. So you could put that in a computer on a rack for a much cheaper 480L. It really does sound the same and at the very least will get you the Lexicon sound. I've demo'd it. Nothing about it blew me away compared to my UA Lexicon 224/UA EMT 250/Waves RVerb and TrueVerb plugins. I should go into a studio that has a real 480L and hear it for myself. Maybe I'm chasing ghosts..... |
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Post by ericn on May 26, 2016 10:31:41 GMT -6
I have the Relab 480XL, and it actually sounds better than I remember the hardware 224 did if memory serves. I've often thought of picking up one of the older PCM Lexicon pieces, just for fun. I bought the PCM 60 the first day it came out. It had limitations, but gave my tracks THAT sound at home, which was brilliant at the time. I sold it all years ago. What is unusual to me is why Lexicon wasn't at the forefront of modeling and marketing its own plug-in line. They would have kept their brand in the game that way. I don't know a thing about coding, but they already had all the codes, I think it wouldn't have been difficult to make it a plug-in. When it comes to Software Harman has screwed the pooch. Harman, owned the rights to Urei ( La-2,3,4 and 1176) some how they didn't manage to see the light and UAD and Bomb factory cashed in. Other than the AKG " the Tube" C12VR and C451EB ( I was told all were in development before Sidney bought AKG) Harman has always avoided the past and been thinking forward! They Never really have gotten software till the lexicon reissues. With Harman the only thing you new for sure was JBL would be making speakers, everything else could change in a second. One day BSS and Audio logic are making Live signal processors the next DBX! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 26, 2016 10:44:13 GMT -6
swurveman said, "I've demo'd it. Nothing about it blew me away compared to my UA Lexicon 224/UA EMT 250/Waves RVerb and TrueVerb plugins. I should go into a studio that has a real 480L and hear it for myself. Maybe I'm chasing ghosts....."
That's interesting. I think that perhaps the demo was limited, I had it, and when I got the Complete Relab, it worked nicely. UAD had a special a couple of years back where you could get three plugs for $399. I could have bought their 224 for $133. The Relab was $400 then. I chose the Relab, as it did something the UAD 224 didn't to my ears. Maybe I was wrong and could've put that money to better use.
The thing that bugs me about the Relab reverb is how the presets are on your hard drive, instead of available from the GUI. When you want to change to a different reverb you click Load, it opens a page, you click on which bank, it opens a side menu, you scroll down, click on that, it opens another sub-menu, where you click on the reverb you want, then hit Save. I'd so much like to see an update where it works like every other plugin from its own GUI menu. Click "presets", scroll down, click, done.
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Post by joseph on May 26, 2016 10:49:27 GMT -6
Relab LX480 is a true reverse engineered 480L. Casey from Bricasti even agreed. That guy Martin is insanely meticulous, and he revealed some of his methods as well as specific shortcomings of the UAD recreations over at KVR. So you could put that in a computer on a rack for a much cheaper 480L. It really does sound the same and at the very least will get you the Lexicon sound. I've demo'd it. Nothing about it blew me away compared to my UA Lexicon 224/UA EMT 250/Waves RVerb and TrueVerb plugins. I should go into a studio that has a real 480L and hear it for myself. Maybe I'm chasing ghosts..... Maybe you don't like the sound of a 480L? 224 is very different on instruments. A lot of people prefer 224 to 480L sound, and reserve the latter for ambiences. You should try the medium ambience algo, the large and small wood rooms and auto park. The relab recreations are just like the real 480L's and are not replicated well in other plugins. Anyway, the UAD 224 is not very accurate. EMT 250 is closer to real thing, good for snares, but totally different sound. True verb is opposite end of spectrum from Lexicon. |
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Post by swurveman on May 26, 2016 10:53:13 GMT -6
swurveman said, "I've demo'd it. Nothing about it blew me away compared to my UA Lexicon 224/UA EMT 250/Waves RVerb and TrueVerb plugins. I should go into a studio that has a real 480L and hear it for myself. Maybe I'm chasing ghosts....."
That's interesting. I think that perhaps the demo was limited, Perhaps you're right, I heard it via the Slate Everything Bundle. Agree about the clumsiness of the workflow. |
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Post by rowmat on May 26, 2016 16:38:47 GMT -6
We bought a 480L (V4.1) about two years ago for $4000 AUD ($3000 USD)
A year ago I picked up the Classic Cart for it.
I do like the Classic Cart Rich Plates which are suppose to be algorithms from the 224XL.
The Valhalla plate plugin is the only verb plugin we use at the moment.
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