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Post by javamad on May 20, 2016 9:19:35 GMT -6
I'm using my new AKG C314 stereo pair. Sounds great. They come in the case with a spacer bar and quick-release cradle. Very happy.
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Post by mikec on May 20, 2016 10:18:54 GMT -6
I am loving the Soyuz SU-011s on acoustic. I know there are probably not many out there yet, but they are pretty nice.
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Post by EmRR on May 20, 2016 13:49:02 GMT -6
I had a Lomo 19A19 on an acoustic during a full band live session recently, sounded pretty good. Nice top end sugary shimmer.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 20, 2016 16:03:22 GMT -6
An 84 has a tiny roll off on the low end while and 86 is flat virtually to DC. In most cases I would eq an 86 down a bit so there isn't much difference other than the figure 8 being available. The other possible advantage of an 86 is that it may have not been abused as much. They cost just as much as an 87 so only people doing orchestral recording tended to buy them.
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Post by odyssey76 on May 21, 2016 5:22:17 GMT -6
Really good thread and advice. matt - I don't think it's your gear. The mc930's are more than adequate. I've gone through this over and over again with AC guitar and it can be maddening. For me, what Martin John Butler describes works very well. One mic out front somewhere around the 12th fret angled away from the sound hole (and away from your pick) backed off like 15-18". The other mic up over your shoulder with the capsule at the same height as your ear pointed at the neck joint. Keep the mics at a distance. Not only do you get less pick noise but also you get more depth in your recording. Fool around with the panning in the track and make sure phase is coherent.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2016 10:24:06 GMT -6
I don't know...I would say it good very possibly be the gear. The one thing I noticed after I bought the KM84 was - I put it up and it worked. No digging out frequencies in the midrange, blah blah blah...If you're using more than one mic, try The Radix Auto Align. It just might change your life!
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Post by drbill on May 21, 2016 11:00:03 GMT -6
No offense to those using 930's, but I helped a friend once who used 930's and could never get what he wanted. I brought over 84's, and without even trying we had exactly what he had been looking for. As john mentioned, you just don't have to "try" very hard with 84's. If the instrument is good, and the player good, it's pretty hard to mess it up....
We're talking shades of subtleties here, but isn't that what we strive for?
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Post by matt on May 21, 2016 11:24:26 GMT -6
I've discovered a few things over the last couple of days:
- I don't have to be so afraid of my untreated room. With the gain turned up a bit, there's a little more room slap picked up by the mic, but I don't hear a real difference in tracks recorded this way in the mix. Tracks can still be up-front and intimate, if required. - More gain on the way in allows me to back off to 12" or more and still get a good print level. - while I might try the two mic technique at some point, I am satisfied with doing the single mic thing, as described by Martin and Justin (and others). - IMO there is not a huge difference between the TLM 102 and the MC930. Both work well enough for the strumming/rhythmic guitar part that I need to capture. But I will be looking into a Neumann K-series at some point. Why not, it's gear! - I have taken a hard look at my playing technique and learned about it, too. The HD28 feels large to me, too large. There might be a triple-zero in my future, or even a junior. I need to hear them. Then, there's the biggest discovery: when picking, I tend to move toward the fretboard, and into the sweet spot of the mic. It has to do with how my right arm falls over the body, and I unconsciously compensate for the size of the guitar. Never even noticed it until now. - For my playing style, I need to go easy on compression. Maybe this is true of acoustic instruments in general and part of Compression 101, but too much brings out the picking noise.
Bottom line: the little things matter!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2016 12:08:57 GMT -6
Also, I'm sure you already know this (not trying to be all patronizing and shiz...) but different pick gauges make bigger differences than lots of things.
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Post by drbill on May 21, 2016 13:07:55 GMT -6
There might be a triple-zero in my future The martin 000-18's are my all-time favorite guitars to RECORD. Especially for picking. Not for banging rhythm parts so much, but for picking, I've never recorded a guitar that sounds better. I like em so much I went on a hunt to find a couple old ones for the studio, and I'm not even a guitar player.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 21, 2016 13:18:43 GMT -6
Too much treatment is a much bigger problem than not enough and it is far too common. A dead room makes people play harder at the expense of tone.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2016 13:21:12 GMT -6
There might be a triple-zero in my future The martin 000-18's are my all-time favorite guitars to RECORD. Especially for picking. Not for banging rhythm parts so much, but for picking, I've never recorded a guitar that sounds better. I like em so much I went on a hunt to find a couple old ones for the studio, and I'm not even a guitar player. I had a 000-18 Golden Era that was pretty fabulous...wish I still had it, but you know how I roll lol. Having said that, most of my stuff is strumming rhythm parts.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 21, 2016 13:38:20 GMT -6
My wife's mid '60s 000-18 and a KM84 into the Daking Mic Pre One is heaven!
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Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2016 13:40:02 GMT -6
I've been thinking about selling my D-28 Authentic - which is just a freaking monster...and going back to something nice like a J45 True Vintage...then pocket the extra $2200
But just like an 84, this guitar is the kind of gear that you sit down, press record...and it's done. So, yeah...therein lies the quandary about all expensive/well-respected gear...
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 21, 2016 14:01:09 GMT -6
We had searched the west coast for a guitar and wound up buying a Larrivee from McCabe's in Santa Monica which was somewhat of a surprise. Then we hit Gruhen's and found THE guitar. Larry Cragg set the bridge up so it could be tuned and then it got a Glaser fret job and a Fishman pickup.
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Post by Johnkenn on May 21, 2016 14:28:22 GMT -6
So...now you gotta tell us what you got at Gruhn's!
I had a Larrivee years ago...Believe it was the L-03R. Rosewood back and sides. It was a really great guitar. I think they sounded better before he started putting all the gloss on them.
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Post by joseph on May 21, 2016 14:43:06 GMT -6
There might be a triple-zero in my future The martin 000-18's are my all-time favorite guitars to RECORD. Especially for picking. Not for banging rhythm parts so much, but for picking, I've never recorded a guitar that sounds better. I like em so much I went on a hunt to find a couple old ones for the studio, and I'm not even a guitar player. I discovered same thing, perfectly balanced low end, and not boxy like some smaller guitars. So it still strums well if you don't overplay it. They are so comfortable to play too.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 21, 2016 16:23:23 GMT -6
So...now you gotta tell us what you got at Gruhn's! I had a Larrivee years ago...Believe it was the L-03R. Rosewood back and sides. It was a really great guitar. I think they sounded better before he started putting all the gloss on them. This Larrivee is shiny mahogany. It sounded better than the rosewoods but isn't very loud. We hunted all over SF and LA in 1999. The old Martin from Gruhn's came into our life the following year and the Larrivee became the guest guitar.
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Post by EmRR on May 22, 2016 8:21:29 GMT -6
Too much treatment is a much bigger problem than not enough and it is far too common. A dead room makes people play harder at the expense of tone. My live room has a standard office type drop ceiling which is fine up until a certain volume level, then once the room takes off at low mid frequencies the absorption becomes uneven. I was advised to pull a few panels to get high reflectivity up more but....it's there because the old ceiling fell.....and it's now holding lots of old fallen ceiling up!
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Post by rocinante on May 23, 2016 8:01:34 GMT -6
I had built an acoustic guitar section in my live room with gobos that could be moved around and what not. Knowing i needed a blend of reflection and absorbtion No matter what I did I still had to eq and clean up the guitars afterwards. In a rush one day I recorded some acoustic guitars not 5 feet from the console and near my repair area. They sounded full and only needed a little adjustment. That spot is now where I record acoustic guitars and throws any theory I had about space and acoustics out the window.
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Post by Guitar on May 23, 2016 14:21:57 GMT -6
I am a big fan of the grey Dunlop .60 millimeter picks. I find that the softer attack really does allow fullness to prevail on acoustic or electric guitars. Very subtle stuff but I'm a believer now. Also, for my playing style, I can pick around a little faster with a thinner pick for some reason.
I also love playing fingerstyle. Mainly because it makes me focus more on picking and counterpoint, rather than simply strumming away at a chord pattern. That's just a direction that's fruitful for me as a songwriter, although I strum when I need to. It's easier to get stuck in a creative box with a pick for me.
Using the right mic takes away a lot of the guesswork, like others have said. There should be a mic/position/guitar combo that's more or less guaranteed to sound good once you find it. When I was using budget microphones I was banging my head against the wall. Same with bad rooms. Acoustic guitar is very sensitive. I haven't heard the Beyers. That said it is also fun to experiment, as always. Lately I seem to favor a nice tube LDC of some sort. I like the low end fullness compared to an SDC, along with the subtle compression.
I think a mistake I personally make a lot is not miking the room at all. So if I stop at vocal and guitar, I'm left with this really dry, in your face thing and it sounds small. Sometimes, it's OK. So the arrangement would probably dictate the mic technique to some degree. When I listen to my friend, who's a country singer, I hear a lot of room on his tracks from various studios he patronizes. So I guess I'm making a mental note to try that. Maybe not all the way, but at least a little more ambience. For example John Kenn's mono close KM84 clip sounds really good, but I doubt that would be a satisfactory sound to have bare in a mix with just a vocal on top. When I was listening to it from that angle, I thought it would be nice to add some more mics.
I always record in my control room too, just because it's convenient. I suspect the big, more reflective room next door might actually sound more lively. Mental note: quit being lazy and go out there.
I also agree with the idea that bad playing is often the culprit, just the same as most all instruments. When I'm brutally honest with myself, and find this to be the case, sometimes I can dig a little deeper and pull out a better, more intentional sound. Sometimes I get lazy with this thing I've been playing for 17 years. Especially when I'm alone and there are no extra ears to critique. A little pressure can go a long way.
YMMV, my two cents
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