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Post by scumbum on May 16, 2016 18:48:53 GMT -6
When the beatles double tracked the lead vocal how did they mix it ? Was the double turned down lower than the lead vocal ? Or were they mixed at equal levels ?
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Post by mrholmes on May 16, 2016 20:39:39 GMT -6
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Post by swurveman on May 17, 2016 6:38:49 GMT -6
Does anybody know of a contemporary example where it is obvious that the singer is using adt?
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Post by donr on May 17, 2016 7:27:05 GMT -6
I demo'd the Waves ADT, didn't think it was worth using as a doubler.
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Post by rocinante on May 17, 2016 9:22:46 GMT -6
Does anybody know of a contemporary example where it is obvious that the singer is using adt? Many. Kurt Cobain is probably a really good example since its nearly every chorus. Sometimes times 3 or 4 of him. My voice can be a mix of Tom Waits in a metal band and so my choruses need to be lush. You can create natural reverbs adjusting the time physically. Takes a little practice and is best if the singer and you know your gonna do it so you can kind of time it. Tis an old engineers trick taught to me by an old engineer.
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Post by mrholmes on May 17, 2016 14:54:51 GMT -6
I demo'd the Waves ADT, didn't think it was worth using as a doubler. There is a freebe ADT and don't miss his plate reverb named "poor plate", poor is to 100% understatement. www.nullmedium.de/dev/audioplugins/
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Post by warrenfirehouse on May 18, 2016 6:50:27 GMT -6
I bought this a couple of months ago and I think its fantastic. If youre looking for a obvious loud double effect you will be dissapointed, but for subtle doubling, chorusing, thickening it works great IMO. Can be really cool on guitar leads also. For the most part, when Im looking to double a vocal for a chorus to thicken it up Im usually doing it subtle enough that this plug will do the trick. Saves alot of time too!
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Post by rocinante on May 18, 2016 11:01:35 GMT -6
How do you guys feel about null medium stuff? Plate verbs and what not? Comparable to anything?
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 18, 2016 21:51:27 GMT -6
mrholmes, I tried downloading the free nullmedium plugs you posted the link to, but once in my download folder, when I tried to open it up to install, I get only a text that looks like this. Any idea what's up? I use an iMac and Logic X.
Last login: Wed May 18 23:51:57 on ttys000 iMac:ADT.vst martin$
Last login: Wed May 18 23:50:17 on ttys000 iMac:Poor Plate.vst martin$
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Post by levon on May 18, 2016 23:15:54 GMT -6
Did you download the AU version? It says 'vst' in your message...
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Post by mrholmes on May 18, 2016 23:25:22 GMT -6
mrholmes, I tried downloading the free nullmedium plugs you posted the link to, but once in my download folder, when I tried to open it up to install, I get only a text that looks like this. Any idea what's up? I use an iMac and Logic X. Last login: Wed May 18 23:51:57 on ttys000 iMac:ADT.vst martin$ Last login: Wed May 18 23:50:17 on ttys000 iMac:Poor Plate.vst martin$ I guess its not a mac vst. You dont use logic?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 9:06:58 GMT -6
Olaf's free VSTs are pretty cool. He also is a long time pro-audio DIY geek, btw... Hope you can get things sorted out, Martin.
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Post by donr on May 19, 2016 9:24:01 GMT -6
I became curious to hear a Beatles recording that used Abbey Road ADT. I listened to "Revolution" from the White Album, and you hear certain words in Lennon's vocal that are double tracked, but it sounds like an effect rather than an actual double performance.
The Waves plugin sounds to me like a chorusing effect rather than a substitution for an actual double. A real double is intentional in the way it textures the original take. This effect is not, IMO a substitute.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 19, 2016 10:59:49 GMT -6
Got the ADT installed, and I kinda like it. I found it easier to use than other doubling effect plugs I have. The GUI is simple and intuitive. It's so simple, I might try it on background vocals occasionally.
I wasn't able to manage getting the poor plate tough. I got a zip download, opened it, put the VST into my components folder, but I think I need that component cube thing too, and the download didn't have one. Olaf has been great responding to my emails, i'm trying to figure it out at the moment.
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 19, 2016 16:46:20 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I put the Audio Units version of PoorPlate in my Audio Units/Component folder, and it shows up as "successfully installed" in my Logic plugins manager, but it doesn't show up when I go to audio units in Logic to instantiate. The ADT works fine.
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Post by mrholmes on May 19, 2016 17:01:22 GMT -6
Thanks guys. I put the Audio Units version of PoorPlate in my Audio Units/Component folder, and it shows up as "successfully installed" in my Logic plugins manager, but it doesn't show up when I go to audio units in Logic to instantiate. The ADT works fine. May it is to find under reverbs? If not, repair disk permissions with disk utility restart your computer. See if it works.... Edit. You want to insert it mono to stereo. Insert it on a stereo track and it will pop up...
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Post by Martin John Butler on May 19, 2016 18:43:43 GMT -6
Whoa, that did it, mucho gracias mrholmes!
Now, I'm on headphones at the moment, so I can't say for sure, but my first impression if the PoorPlate is fantastic! On the track I'm working on, the reverb's I use on buses are, first, UAD's Ocean Way at various levels to give variance in placements of the players back to front in the soundstage. Second, Relab's Medium Hall HD, with highs EQ'd slightly lower, then I have UAD's EMT-140, just because sometimes it added a little vibe when used in very small doses.
So, for fun, I turned off the Relab and the EMT-140 on the lead vocal, kept the Ocean Way and tried the PoorPlate on a bus. It's a different sound than the UAD, it's wider, and I really like it. I'll listen closer on monitors tomorrow. After hearing how that sounded, I tried trading he PoorPlate for the EMT-140 on acoustic and electric guitars too, just to see, and I think they're cleaner, less obscure, more interesting, the way Led Zeppelin's plate sound was interesting. I feel like if it wasn't for UAD's Ampex ATR-102, I could almost do without UAD, especially since I'll eventually get a hardware LA2A clone. Granted, I don't have the dsp power to use the Massive Passive, so I might find I like that too, but I can't tell unless I get a new Apollo quad to replace my duo.
I'm tempted to look at a UAD quad satellite and the new Focusrite interface.. hmmm..
*quick update, it might just be that i'm on headphones, but I am absolutely loving the PoorPlate. It's bringing a sense of liveliness to a track that was feeling dull. I'll know for sure tomorrow when I can crank my monitors, but I'm honestly a little exited. Maybe it's compatible with the tones of my Dizengoff D4 preamp which is a REDD47 style pre.
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Post by mrholmes on May 19, 2016 20:18:47 GMT -6
The poor plate has depth which the UAD EMT has not. If you combine it with a short delay on a snare, for example, you get width too.
But lets make a new thread for this, here its about the ADT....
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Post by scumbum on May 19, 2016 21:07:01 GMT -6
I'm curious how they doubled before ADT . Was it mixed at equal levels ?
I ask because the beatles double track always sound good , but when I double it sounds too distracting ,
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Post by mrholmes on May 19, 2016 22:05:18 GMT -6
Train it, the more often you do it the better you will gett...
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2016 1:36:08 GMT -6
Yes, doubling tracks needs experience, no matter if instruments or voice. And sometimes a few more takes - which is most probably the reason for inventing the ADT technique in the first place...saves recording time and sounds similar to a very good double take.
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Post by mrholmes on May 20, 2016 4:22:42 GMT -6
Yes, doubling tracks needs experience, no matter if instruments or voice. And sometimes a few more takes - which is most probably the reason for inventing the ADT technique in the first place...saves recording time and sounds similar to a very good double take. Everything needs experience, but we live in times where students think it will fall down from heaven one day-without investing a single minute. I always try to explain that talking about it wont help to get the things done. 50% step away and follow the consum mantra, they buy new gear to come back to talk about the gear, the other 50% starts to practice but thinks after a few months that its to hard to hang in? Some ask how long did you do it.... since I am 12. It takes time to get better and better. Conclusion... Man I am so happy that I am born in the 70s because we do not had those stupid cell phones which make kpeople believe they did something. There are people which are very thankfull for those brainwash tools... Sure there are great digital tools .... but choose wisely.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on May 20, 2016 16:05:21 GMT -6
Before ADT you needed to record multiple passes. Working 4 track that meant serious degradation.
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Post by gouge on May 20, 2016 18:33:31 GMT -6
Something I've found works is to put up a room MIC with your vocal mic.
Set up a vocal group in the daw and copy the main mic and the room mic to that group. Explode all of the takes so you now have a bunch of individual tracks. Basically every take from every mic as individual tracks.
Then mix that group in under the main vocal which has been comped.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 12:07:08 GMT -6
Something I've found works is to put up a room MIC with your vocal mic. Set up a vocal group in the daw and copy the main mic and the room mic to that group. Explode all of the takes so you now have a bunch of individual tracks. Basically every take from every mic as individual tracks. Then mix that group in under the main vocal which has been comped. Edited: D'oh! Misunderstood at first reading. Do you turn the volume of the takes down, that are far off?
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