|
Post by scumbum on Apr 4, 2016 23:37:49 GMT -6
What year did the first de-esser come out ?
What did they do back when they didn't have them ?
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Apr 5, 2016 0:06:48 GMT -6
Urei 565 notch filters. That is the big ugly black beast in this rack. It still works perfectly after all these years. Attachment Deleted
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Apr 5, 2016 3:14:45 GMT -6
Urei 565 notch filters. That is the big ugly black beast in this rack. It still works perfectly after all these years. I'm about to start modding mine. I'm going to mod the left channel first and compare it to the right as I go. Correction: Mine's a 546, the silver unit underneath the 565. I might try the 546 in the side chain of an Aphex 651 Expressor and see how well it works for de-essing.
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Apr 5, 2016 3:34:38 GMT -6
I remember using a graphic feeding a compressor
Cheers
Wiz
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Apr 5, 2016 3:52:03 GMT -6
I remeber tracking it again with a diffrent mic position.... works too.
|
|
|
Post by dandeurloo on Apr 5, 2016 7:28:48 GMT -6
Tape ate a good amount of it up.
|
|
|
Post by popmann on Apr 5, 2016 10:30:44 GMT -6
Singers worth recording.
Mics worthy or recording them.
Tape.
I maintain that the need for deEssing is brought about In large part by poor engineering...which might be simple miseducation based on leaning how to engineer vocals from Internet forums. The fix for an occasional nasty consonant is to filter it offline prior to any mix processing.
|
|
|
Post by donr on Apr 5, 2016 10:52:27 GMT -6
Urei 565 notch filters. That is the big ugly black beast in this rack. It still works perfectly after all these years. Randy, I commend your photo, it's really clear and informative. Plenty of resolution. I liked your RTZ demo too.
|
|
|
Post by Randge on Apr 5, 2016 11:13:51 GMT -6
Urei 565 notch filters. That is the big ugly black beast in this rack. It still works perfectly after all these years. Randy, I commend your photo, it's really clear and informative. Plenty of resolution. I liked your RTZ demo too. Thanks, Don. The reason I own that 565 is de-essing. It was the most affordable solution when I started recording.
|
|
|
Post by EmRR on Apr 6, 2016 12:48:21 GMT -6
There are a ton of inexpensive lab filters from General Radio, Spencer-Kennedy, Krohn-Hite, etc that will do the trick. Stuff that was far more expensive than studios would have bought back then.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 6, 2016 15:10:50 GMT -6
In my radio drama class we were taught to speak into a ribbon mike at an angle to avoid sibilance. Singers were taught to pass their hand in front of the mike to avoid pops and to turn away on sibilance. Neumann, Orthofon and Fairchild all made high frequency limiters for disk cutting but they needed to be part of the pre-emphasis circuit of a cutting system. We modified a Neumann to use in our mix room around 1968.
At Motown it was very unusual for singers to be closer than two feet from a mike and more often it was five. The U67 followed by the U87 ruled for lack of both sibilance and pops. Dedicated de-essers first appeared in the early '70s. In 1972 Doug Sax told me to be sure and check out the Orban for mixing my next album project.
|
|
|
Post by cowboycoalminer on Apr 6, 2016 15:13:18 GMT -6
What year did the first de-esser come out ? What did they do back when they didn't have them ? Used really great recording gear And I'm being serious. A world class signal chain needs no de-essing if proper mic technique is used. Mostly slightly off axis and AWAY from the mic. Not eating it.
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Apr 6, 2016 19:15:27 GMT -6
In my radio drama class we were taught to speak into a ribbon mike at an angle to avoid sibilance. Singers were taught to pass their hand in front of the mike to avoid pops and to turn away on sibilance. Neumann, Orthofon and Fairchild all made high frequency limiters for disk cutting but they needed to be part of the pre-emphasis circuit of a cutting system. We modified a Neumann to use in our mix room around 1968. At Motown it was very unusual for singers to be closer than two feet from a mike and more often it was five. The U67 followed by the U87 ruled for lack of both sibilance and pops. Dedicated de-essers first appeared in the early '70s. In 1972 Doug Sax told me to be sure and check out the Orban for mixing my next album project. Wow , 2-5 feet from the mic ! Nowadays 1 foot is considered far from the mic .
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 6, 2016 19:46:09 GMT -6
You can easily record great drums in a living room but vocals require a studio for the singer to be far enough back so you don't need to limit the crap out off them.
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Apr 6, 2016 21:30:25 GMT -6
You can easily record great drums in a living room but vocals require a studio for the singer to be far enough back so you don't need to limit the crap out off them. I wanna try recording vocals farther back , how far back do you recommend for a condenser and a dynamic mic recording rock vocals ? Like a good starting point distance , Thanks for all the advice Bob !
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Apr 7, 2016 7:03:32 GMT -6
I remember using a graphic feeding a compressor Cheers Wiz Like yeah, duh... wasn't that what everybody did?
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 7, 2016 8:34:01 GMT -6
You can easily record great drums in a living room but vocals require a studio for the singer to be far enough back so you don't need to limit the crap out off them. I wanna try recording vocals farther back , how far back do you recommend for a condenser and a dynamic mic recording rock vocals ? Like a good starting point distance , Thanks for all the advice Bob ! Not Bob...(by a long shot 8), but have you ever been at some formal event where quiet was appropriate, and had a dude, whether it be your dad, brother, friend.. come up to you and try to whisper something into your ear? You know the feeling and the sound? lots of mouth noise, sibs and a the "get the frick away from me" feeling haha, well, there is a reason for that. Scum, a quiet room is a must, but try treating your mic like a person you're having a conversation with(the way most of us communicate/most of the time), sibs, mouth noise freq's do NOT travel well through atmosphere or objects, pumping them at close proximity through a mic is cool if you're singing everyone of your lovemedo tunes to your girlfriend, otherwise..... BACK OFF!!!
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 7, 2016 12:13:14 GMT -6
Exactly! This was why people built soundproof studios at great expense...
|
|
|
Post by scumbum on Apr 9, 2016 9:27:11 GMT -6
I wanna try recording vocals farther back , how far back do you recommend for a condenser and a dynamic mic recording rock vocals ? Like a good starting point distance , Thanks for all the advice Bob ! Not Bob...(by a long shot 8), but have you ever been at some formal event where quiet was appropriate, and had a dude, whether it be your dad, brother, friend.. come up to you and try to whisper something into your ear? You know the feeling and the sound? lots of mouth noise, sibs and a the "get the frick away from me" feeling haha, well, there is a reason for that. Scum, a quiet room is a must, but try treating your mic like a person you're having a conversation with(the way most of us communicate/most of the time), sibs, mouth noise freq's do NOT travel well through atmosphere or objects, pumping them at close proximity through a mic is cool if you're singing everyone of your lovemedo tunes to your girlfriend, otherwise..... BACK OFF!!! So I took a tape measure and 3 feet would be the distance I'd talk to someone . Any closer and I'd really be smelling their bad breath .
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Apr 9, 2016 10:53:25 GMT -6
Not Bob...(by a long shot 8), but have you ever been at some formal event where quiet was appropriate, and had a dude, whether it be your dad, brother, friend.. come up to you and try to whisper something into your ear? You know the feeling and the sound? lots of mouth noise, sibs and a the "get the frick away from me" feeling haha, well, there is a reason for that. Scum, a quiet room is a must, but try treating your mic like a person you're having a conversation with(the way most of us communicate/most of the time), sibs, mouth noise freq's do NOT travel well through atmosphere or objects, pumping them at close proximity through a mic is cool if you're singing everyone of your lovemedo tunes to your girlfriend, otherwise..... BACK OFF!!! So I took a tape measure and 3 feet would be the distance I'd talk to someone . Any closer and I'd really be smelling their bad breath . 2 1/2' seems my mark, but i'm a close talker haha
|
|
|
Post by iamasound on Apr 9, 2016 11:13:10 GMT -6
Distance comfort is a cultural trait. The study of personal distance is apply called Proxemics and the comfort zone varies not only from culture to culture but also there is a significant difference between the comfort zones between men and woman, and even still can even further vary during a woman's menstrual cycle. Microphone distance and Proxemics have an overlap but it might not be scientifically relevant or useful from the point of view of of achievement in a given situation, ie, effect one envisiona, type of microphone, song, unique singer, room,etc. coms-group-03.blogspot.com/2011/12/intercultural-communication-of.html
|
|
|
Post by jazznoise on Apr 9, 2016 15:08:55 GMT -6
They didn't limit the sh*t out of vocals recording at less than an inch from the mic, because they didn't have ways to try and make it sound passable. Now we do, so therefore trying to tounge fuck the middle of the mic seems like a great idea.
It's what happens when live and studio sound experiences cross over. You eat a mic at a gig to avoid feedback, not for good sound, but people reapply it to the studio context and are surprised at the poor results. It's the exact mentality of most Irish studios run by older dudes. They all started out doing sound for guys and gradually got enough gear to get a studio going, but no real clue how to use it.
|
|
|
Post by Bob Olhsson on Apr 9, 2016 18:29:01 GMT -6
The problem is that a limited, de-essed vocal hasn't nearly the "balls" of one without all of the processing.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 19:05:45 GMT -6
One of those situations where you really have to marvel at digital's edge over analog. Anyone here used an analog gate recently?
|
|