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Post by Hudsonic on Mar 14, 2023 17:14:57 GMT -6
I am HIGHLY suspect when they claim 157.6 dB (A) "converter dynamic range" --> even when A-weighted, if this number is for an audio product (let's assume noise is considered from 20 to 20kHz bandwidth only), and by "converter" they mean analog-to-digital conversion --> let's assume the A-weighting provides 3dB benefit compared to unweighted, so estimated unweighted dynamic range is 154.6 dB. We can estimate the equivalent "effective number of bits" (ENOB) of such a converter system from: Dynamic range = 6.02*N + 1.76 dB, where the N is the estimated ENOB of the system. With Dynamic range (unweighted) as 154.6 dB, we have an ENOB of ~25.4 bits. The Lavry Savitr ($8600 on Vintage King) states 126 dB Dynamic range (unweighted) for 44.1 kHz sample rate, for 20.64 ENOB. Not that price must correlate with specs, it often doesn't, but I'm just pointing out that 25.4 bits of true ENOB is basically a seismic leap for audio ADC field, makes me high skeptical of their specifications and/or definitions. I'd love to be wrong though! I guess I should point out, that true 24 bit performance would be dynamic range of 146.24 dB; I have yet to see any audio converter product claim that level of dynamic range even though we have "24 bit converters". Realistically, the 24 bit is the word size for each sample but the last few LSBs ("least-significant bits") of that data is typically just noise. Stagetec is very innovative but I will have to see and measure its performance once it is in house here. SONOSAX R4+ has 135 dB dynamic range but that is with the mic amp turned all the way down. I have known about Stagetec True Match technology for more than 20 years. This new product puts that technology in a small box and one gets away with not having to buy one of their big consoles to have access to their designs. |
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Post by teejay on Mar 15, 2023 14:00:05 GMT -6
Demoing. Notice anything different? Hoping to share some clips.
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2023 15:14:39 GMT -6
Demoing. Notice anything different? Hoping to share some clips.
I'll be quite interested in hearing these. |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2023 15:57:19 GMT -6
I am HIGHLY suspect when they claim 157.6 dB (A) "converter dynamic range" --> even when A-weighted, if this number is for an audio product (let's assume noise is considered from 20 to 20kHz bandwidth only), and by "converter" they mean analog-to-digital conversion --> let's assume the A-weighting provides 3dB benefit compared to unweighted, so estimated unweighted dynamic range is 154.6 dB. We can estimate the equivalent "effective number of bits" (ENOB) of such a converter system from: Dynamic range = 6.02*N + 1.76 dB, where the N is the estimated ENOB of the system. With Dynamic range (unweighted) as 154.6 dB, we have an ENOB of ~25.4 bits. The Lavry Savitr ($8600 on Vintage King) states 126 dB Dynamic range (unweighted) for 44.1 kHz sample rate, for 20.64 ENOB. Not that price must correlate with specs, it often doesn't, but I'm just pointing out that 25.4 bits of true ENOB is basically a seismic leap for audio ADC field, makes me high skeptical of their specifications and/or definitions. I'd love to be wrong though! I guess I should point out, that true 24 bit performance would be dynamic range of 146.24 dB; I have yet to see any audio converter product claim that level of dynamic range even though we have "24 bit converters". Realistically, the 24 bit is the word size for each sample but the last few LSBs ("least-significant bits") of that data is typically just noise. Stagetec is very innovative but I will have to see and measure its performance once it is in house here. SONOSAX R4+ has 135 dB dynamic range but that is with the mic amp turned all the way down. I have known about Stagetec True Match technology for more than 20 years. This new product puts that technology in a small box and one gets away with not having to buy one of their big consoles to have access to their designs. I’m very curious to hear your thoughts on the Stagetec, the console has an almost mythical following among those who have had the chance to use it, think of it as the digital Gamble EX. I use the comparison because it is those same people who had always told me a Midas XL was a child’s toy next to a Gamble ( it is) have said the Stagetec is to the Digico what the Gamble is to an XL. I know you only have the pre but it all starts at the pre. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 15, 2023 16:17:21 GMT -6
After tweaking a set of Clair 12AM inspired wedges (1in instead of 2in compression drivers) using EV 12’s ( as found in many 12AM’s and replacing the cheap Chinese 1in with Emilar, they really need a lot of DSP to sound their best so the owners considering buying my BSS Soundweb 9088iis’s because he’s broke and his DBX Driverack PA’s just don’t cut it. I’m taking a flyer on a Soundweb Blu80. Why well first more DSP horse power, better conversion, Cobranet ( have cards for the DM1000 & thinking E-snake), the ability to run both control and Cobranet over same cat5 plus IPAD app for control. I do like the idea of being able to run without going through an extra AD and DA plus if I like it as much as I prefer Analog Graphics the idea that I can have 4 graphics at FOH plus Parametrics and dynamics in 1 rack U and control it from anywhere via IPad I figure the only real dangers are I will want to upgrade to all new Blu 800’s with AES and better conversion at the AmP racks!
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Post by teejay on Mar 15, 2023 18:45:28 GMT -6
Demoing. Notice anything different? Hoping to share some clips.
I'll be quite interested in hearing these. I'll make sure you get some clips, drumsound . But I won't subject you to any further photos. If I remember correctly, you're not a fan of the design or the creme/brass combo.  |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 15, 2023 23:22:03 GMT -6
I'll be quite interested in hearing these. I'll make sure you get some clips, drumsound . But I won't subject you to any further photos. If I remember correctly, you're not a fan of the design or the creme/brass combo. But I think the all chRome Bomblet looks AWESOME! |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Mar 16, 2023 5:42:21 GMT -6
I'll make sure you get some clips, drumsound . But I won't subject you to any further photos. If I remember correctly, you're not a fan of the design or the creme/brass combo. But I think the all chRome Bomblet looks AWESOME! Even better on a Chromebook! Had to beat Chris to it! |
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Post by ninworks on Mar 16, 2023 8:01:22 GMT -6
I just picked up a second Great River MP-500NV mic pre for my 500 series rack. Now I have stereo-ness for the Great River format. Still waiting on the SSL UVEQ from Sweetwater. They predict they will be available towards the end of the month. I ordered it the first week of January and they told me 2 or 3 months. Hopefully they will be on schedule.
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Post by chessparov on Mar 16, 2023 8:09:08 GMT -6
But I think the all chRome Bomblet looks AWESOME! Even better on a Chromebook! Had to beat Chris to it! When I hear Bomblet... Somehow reminds of Audrey Hepburn or Natalie Wood back in their day.  Chris |
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Post by Ward on Mar 16, 2023 11:27:34 GMT -6
Demoing. Notice anything different? Hoping to share some clips. SNIP
I'll be quite interested in hearing these. Stop spending my money!!! I still have to pay for my 251! |
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Post by gravesnumber9 on Mar 16, 2023 17:09:58 GMT -6
No personalization. A great practice amp, however I can see studio use also. Being MR.MOD I already replaced the speakers with a pair of 4" coaxial speakers. More high end but a little less volume. SO, I ordered the 70 watt IC chip from Mouser. I'll have to see if I attempt the SMD world. Haha... when you're modding a desktop smart amp, you officially have a problem! This looks really cool by the way. How well does the smart Jam thing work? I can see that being really fun. |
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Post by soundtech on Mar 16, 2023 17:27:48 GMT -6
Man I still love and use my trusty SX202. Great preamps. The Symetrix were a nice option for a quiet clean better than what was found in a mid priced console. It’s not a Millmedia, but for what they are going for a bargain. Oh I once thought about building a hybrid console of a decent line mixer and a rack of Symetrix 528e’ ch strips. I replaced the SSM2015's in mine with a pair of Jim Williams' PIP modules. Extremely clean, lots of "air". An inexpensive upgrade. No affiliation.
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Post by sean on Mar 16, 2023 18:36:45 GMT -6
 I’ve slowly been chipping away at populating these insert and direct out PCBs for my Auditronics. Guess the DIP8 version of one of line drivers isn’t available so had to go SMD. Man, making these little adapter boards makes this take 5 times as long. Oh well. |
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Post by drumsound on Mar 16, 2023 21:50:20 GMT -6
But I think the all chRome Bomblet looks AWESOME! Even better on a Chromebook! Had to beat Chris to it! Haha, well played. |
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Post by subspace on Mar 17, 2023 14:38:26 GMT -6
After tweaking a set of Clair 12AM inspired wedges (1in instead of 2in compression drivers) using EV 12’s ( as found in many 12AM’s and replacing the cheap Chinese 1in with Emilar, they really need a lot of DSP to sound their best so the owners considering buying my BSS Soundweb 9088iis’s because he’s broke and his DBX Driverack PA’s just don’t cut it. I’m taking a flyer on a Soundweb Blu80. Why well first more DSP horse power, better conversion, Cobranet ( have cards for the DM1000 & thinking E-snake), the ability to run both control and Cobranet over same cat5 plus IPAD app for control. I do like the idea of being able to run without going through an extra AD and DA plus if I like it as much as I prefer Analog Graphics the idea that I can have 4 graphics at FOH plus Parametrics and dynamics in 1 rack U and control it from anywhere via IPad I figure the only real dangers are I will want to upgrade to all new Blu 800’s with AES and better conversion at the AmP racks! I just tossed a Carver 2.0t in the back of my truck that came out of a Clair 12AM rack, setting up a pit orchestra monitor rig for this weekend's rehearsals. My old DM2000 > Cobranet > Blu80 rig did indeed have touch screen control of 5 band parametrics with integrated metering on each monitor mix. I loved it, but all the guest engineers asked me to patch the FCS-960s in the side rack across each mix, then it was death to 100... |
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
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Post by ericn on Mar 17, 2023 15:36:09 GMT -6
After tweaking a set of Clair 12AM inspired wedges (1in instead of 2in compression drivers) using EV 12’s ( as found in many 12AM’s and replacing the cheap Chinese 1in with Emilar, they really need a lot of DSP to sound their best so the owners considering buying my BSS Soundweb 9088iis’s because he’s broke and his DBX Driverack PA’s just don’t cut it. I’m taking a flyer on a Soundweb Blu80. Why well first more DSP horse power, better conversion, Cobranet ( have cards for the DM1000 & thinking E-snake), the ability to run both control and Cobranet over same cat5 plus IPAD app for control. I do like the idea of being able to run without going through an extra AD and DA plus if I like it as much as I prefer Analog Graphics the idea that I can have 4 graphics at FOH plus Parametrics and dynamics in 1 rack U and control it from anywhere via IPad I figure the only real dangers are I will want to upgrade to all new Blu 800’s with AES and better conversion at the AmP racks! I just tossed a Carver 2.0t in the back of my truck that came out of a Clair 12AM rack, setting up a pit orchestra monitor rig for this weekend's rehearsals. My old DM2000 > Cobranet > Blu80 rig did indeed have touch screen control of 5 band parametrics with integrated metering on each monitor mix. I loved it, but all the guest engineers asked me to patch the FCS-960s in the side rack across each mix, then it was death to 100... Yeah Zi completely get it if I’m mixing monitors on someone else’s rig I want analog graphics on monitors for the simple quick grab, but on my own rig I can live with a tablet or touch screen. |
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Post by prene1 on Mar 18, 2023 4:44:57 GMT -6
 Latest addition to the family. My hardware journey has been AMAZING. |
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Post by tackhouse on Mar 21, 2023 11:47:36 GMT -6
Just unwrapped this. I’ll be able to plug it in later tonight. Meanwhile, it can sit here on my desk at the office to distract me from the work I should be doing.  Looks excellent, thanks Chad! |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 22, 2023 7:27:07 GMT -6
The lowly orig Rode NT2. $100, looks new in the case. Someone had it with them on a session. Yeah, that’s a lot of air. Those things are u67/87 type capsules but no built in treble compensation, no wonder they’re so bright. Did the compensation mod, 2 resistors and a cap. Seems ok, we’ll see, will shoot against the TLM67.
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Post by sean on Mar 22, 2023 14:40:34 GMT -6
The lowly orig Rode NT2. $100, looks new in the case. Someone had it with them on a session. Yeah, that’s a lot of air. Those things are u67/87 type capsules but no built in treble compensation, no wonder they’re so bright. Did the compensation mod, 2 resistors and a cap. Seems ok, we’ll see, will shoot against the TLM67. Jim Williams designed the circuit for that microphone and he posted several other mods, I bet if you emailed him he’d give you a run down if you want to take it further |
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Post by EmRR on Mar 22, 2023 15:28:07 GMT -6
The lowly orig Rode NT2. $100, looks new in the case. Someone had it with them on a session. Yeah, that’s a lot of air. Those things are u67/87 type capsules but no built in treble compensation, no wonder they’re so bright. Did the compensation mod, 2 resistors and a cap. Seems ok, we’ll see, will shoot against the TLM67. Jim Williams designed the circuit for that microphone and he posted several other mods, I bet if you emailed him he’d give you a run down if you want to take it further I've noticed most of his comments on that. Reducing polarization voltage looks like the #1 additional option. Funny I don't think I've seen him address the lack of treble compensation anywhere, maybe he digs the high boost? |
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Post by sean on Mar 22, 2023 15:57:25 GMT -6
Jim Williams designed the circuit for that microphone and he posted several other mods, I bet if you emailed him he’d give you a run down if you want to take it further I've noticed most of his comments on that. Reducing polarization voltage looks like the #1 additional option. Funny I don't think I've seen him address the lack of treble compensation anywhere, maybe he digs the high boost? From an old Jim post: to cure the excessive k-87 capsule's 12k hz peaks, I changed the 470 pf roll-off caps and ended up with 3300 pf. That tamed the 12k peaks and gave the mic a very U-87'ish quality I'm enjoying. |
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Post by plinker on Mar 22, 2023 20:17:38 GMT -6
I've noticed most of his comments on that. Reducing polarization voltage looks like the #1 additional option. Funny I don't think I've seen him address the lack of treble compensation anywhere, maybe he digs the high boost? From an old Jim post: to cure the excessive k-87 capsule's 12k hz peaks, I changed the 470 pf roll-off caps and ended up with 3300 pf. That tamed the 12k peaks and gave the mic a very U-87'ish quality I'm enjoying. I'm digging this Throwback Wednesday stuff on the NT2! |
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Post by chessparov on Mar 22, 2023 21:46:10 GMT -6
"On the Rode again"
"I can't wait to get on the Rode again"
Chris
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