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Post by Vincent R. on Jan 5, 2020 10:28:49 GMT -6
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 5, 2020 13:00:21 GMT -6
I wouldn't be worried about coloring the sound of a mixcube, LOL! Passive monitor controllers WILL color your sound but I wouldn't worry about a mixcube, since they are so far from flat full response anyway. the big knob passive does color the sound only a tiny tiny tiny. it. seems to miss a tiny tiny bit of detail. but otherwise it's feels sturdy and the knobs seem quality. is it normal that when turning on mono, the side signals become very very quiet? they seem almost to dissapear although in stereo they seem loud enough. the big knob passive does color the sound only a tiny tiny tiny. it. seems to miss a tiny tiny bit of detail. but otherwise it's feels sturdy and the knobs seem quality. is it normal that when turning on mono, the side signals become very very quiet? they seem almost to dissapear although in stereo they seem loud enough. I'm not sure what you mean by side signals exactly, but in mono the level coming out of the speakers should be about the same as stereo, but yeah it's going to sound way different. Mayb you've got some L/R stuff out of phase? Yes the color is mostly going to be in the high end on these passive controllers. Same thing just happened to me with my SAT2 in my B room setup, it's noticeable. Sorry dudes I need to clarify this for you. When you hit "Mono" on a monitor controller, it usually means that it sums your L/R signals into a mono one. This is so you can check you mix in a mono fold down situation. So L + R = M. This effectively means that any common frequencies will be additive strengthen and signals not common will be rejected. This collapses the sides since they phase each other out. This is a great way to check the phase of your mix. Things that are too wide and out of phase will cancel out. Things that aren't too wide and in phase will stay. You can also use a Phase meter to help with this. Of course the best way to monitor in mono is well, with one speaker. but a dual mono setup is okay for checking.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 13:06:21 GMT -6
It doesn't really collapse the sides though, it just puts them all on the same channel, no? Same frequency can be in or out of phase.
I'm not sure if this is getting too complicated or not, but it's interesting to look at the phase correlation meter on a good meter like the Brainworx stuff or any of them. I guess that's your visual cue that the mono summed image is not going to be too F'd up.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 5, 2020 13:12:32 GMT -6
It doesn't really collapse the sides though, it just puts them all on the same channel, no? Same frequency can be in or out of phase. I'm not sure if this is getting too complicated or not, but it's interesting to look at the phase correlation meter on a good meter like the Brainworx stuff or any of them. I guess that's your visual cue that the mono summed image is not going to be too F'd up. it will "collapse" the sides if they are out of phase. It makes the monitors both play the same thing. You're going from a stereo signal to a mono with a push of the button. It still comes out two speakers but its a mono signal, they are both getting the same signal now. L + R = M so the controller takes the signal from the L channel and the R channel and puts them together. All common signals pass through but all uncommon can get phased out depending on how they are done. For instance, hit Mono on your controller then try and pan something. Nothing moves left to right but It will sound phasey and maybe move front to back or disappear. I don't use the Brainworx stuff. But on Iztope Insight the phase meter is a half circle with two lines at about a 45 degree angle spiting the circle again. Any signal that goes past these lines is out of phase and won't be heard in a mono mix.
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 5, 2020 14:12:09 GMT -6
I don’t know how you guys work or what kind of mixes you do, it might depend on instrument choice (virtual stuff?) or musical style but my mixes fold to mono perfectly. Of course they are obeying the panning laws, but no nasty surprises, ever.
When you talk about “sides collapsing” it sounds like the mix has purely out of phase side information? That would be extremely weird.
When you sum L and R to mono you get exactly that: the sum of both channels. Only stuff that’s badly out of phase would cancel.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 14:18:47 GMT -6
We have talked about this before, but the sides from an M/S microphone array will completely cancel in mono, since that is fundamental to how they are derived in the first place. L and R are the same exact signal out of phase (polarity), so if you sum them, you get silence.
Some stereo widening FX will "collapse" in mono as well.
In real life, I don't really worry about it.
The guitars on Nevermind by Nirvana will collapse somewhat in mono too, really weird, I just tested this. I wonder why this is.
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Post by subspace on Jan 5, 2020 14:23:56 GMT -6
I bought the Premier Collection there for $50 at the beginning of November, which includes all the Singles, drums and synths as well. Works well in Akai's VIP, also on sale, for layering orchestral parts. I blend SONiVOX, IK's Miroslav Philharmonik 2CE and Kontakt's VSL/Session stuff that way. 2019 was the year of the VI for me, definitely swinging my focus back to hardware in 2020 after spending the last two weeks tracking. Hence my first purchase, a Tonelux Equalux.
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Post by christopher on Jan 5, 2020 14:45:13 GMT -6
Just to add to mono thing; sometimes wiring is out of phase, speaker terminals, XLR, it’s an easy human error
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 5, 2020 17:00:20 GMT -6
It is true what they say about 67's on guitar amps. Wow. How far from the amp? Mine didn’t knock me out. It’s gotten very hard to beat the Stager SR-2N for that application. About 10"-14" in cardioid with the pad on at the mic pre, not on the mic.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 5, 2020 17:32:05 GMT -6
I have a DIY "67 style" microphone that sounds outrageously good on guitar cabs, I usually have it about 2 inches off the grille, mainly because of the shockmount.
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Post by chessparov on Jan 5, 2020 17:45:32 GMT -6
Gibson ES335 ... I also got a pair of u67 reissues. It is true what they say about 67's on guitar amps. Wow. James, how close are your 67 RI's in sound-to each other? With all due respect to Klaus... IMHO I think (and certainly would like to think) the potential tonal issues he brought up, in his analysis/testing of U67 reissue RI's, reflect a minority percentage of U67 RI's. Thanks, Chris
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 5, 2020 22:39:28 GMT -6
Mine sound identical. And they have a sweet sugary smoothness to the upper mids that is very appealing. They are only 4 serial numbers apart. They were B stock units. They were cheaper than the cable I had to buy for my console!
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Post by chessparov on Jan 6, 2020 0:27:49 GMT -6
Awesome!! Chris
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Post by theshea on Jan 6, 2020 2:24:07 GMT -6
I Of course they are obeying the panning laws, but no nasty surprises, ever. i have -3db panning law. is that why i hear the hard left guitar when switching to mono with the big knob a bit quieter? because there's no phase issue, it's just one mic one guitar hard left.
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Post by stormymondays on Jan 6, 2020 3:26:24 GMT -6
Actually now that I stop and think, I haven’t really studied what panning laws do when collapsing to mono, so I don’t even know why I mentioned it, sorry! If there’s a panning law at work (almost always), stuff on the sides is already louder than the center. Summing to mono just sums. I’d venture that 3 guitars (panned L, C and R) shouldn’t change volumes when summed to mono. It would be easiest just to run a test session with one or two instruments and hesr what happens
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Post by jacobamerritt on Jan 6, 2020 12:25:00 GMT -6
Yes the color is mostly going to be in the high end on these passive controllers. Same thing just happened to me with my SAT2 in my B room setup, it's noticeable. I know this thread is about gear we acquired, not tech talk but: FWIW - My Mackie Passive Big Knob doesn't impart anything perceptible sonically. Nearly all reviews say the same thing. From my understanding thats kinda the point of a passive system like that.
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Post by Guitar on Jan 6, 2020 13:27:41 GMT -6
Yes the color is mostly going to be in the high end on these passive controllers. Same thing just happened to me with my SAT2 in my B room setup, it's noticeable. I know this thread is about gear we acquired, not tech talk but: FWIW - My Mackie Passive Big Knob doesn't impart anything perceptible sonically. Nearly all reviews say the same thing. From my understanding thats kinda the point of a passive system like that. I would encourage you to run a blind test, or even a sighted test, against an active monitor controller, or a super high end passive controller, which is not a "pot in a box." You may or may not be introduced to a significant difference in your own monitoring. Just to be clear, I have done this test a few times.
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Post by Blackdawg on Jan 6, 2020 21:04:43 GMT -6
Bought a 3rd SA3A...LOL
Supposedly Mike himself built this unit.
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Post by EmRR on Jan 6, 2020 22:07:43 GMT -6
How far from the amp? Mine didn’t knock me out. About 10"-14" in cardioid with the pad on at the mic pre, not on the mic.
Try skipping the preamp entirely. Works great. Mine sounds good there, but I also tend to prefer a ribbon. ....oh yeah....got a Rycote stereo windscreen and windjammer for outdoor work.
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 6, 2020 22:14:42 GMT -6
.. what? Go line in? I'm using my console pre amps. API. SO much gain!
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Post by Guitar on Jan 6, 2020 22:46:12 GMT -6
Just rocked my new Hartke Hydrive HD210 bass cabinet. Rocks.
Strong burn/chemical smell when I cranked up kind of far. Still works fine. Some people claim these kinds of smells with brand new cabs heating up at first. Or I might have got the voice coil really hot, I don't know.
Am I safe? Anybody else have smelly woofers when new?
Need to use a lower power amp head ASAP for safety. The cab takes 500 W but the head puts out bridged 750 W at current settings, volume on amp was low, but the boosters in front of the amp might have possibly made that a moot point. Still not sure. Cab still works and sounds wonderful.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 7, 2020 6:26:05 GMT -6
.. what? Go line in? I'm using my console pre amps. API. SO much gain! What console do you have?
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Post by jeremygillespie on Jan 7, 2020 6:33:06 GMT -6
.. what? Go line in? I'm using my console pre amps. API. SO much gain! With a 67 you can go line in or just go right into a compressor if the source is loud enough. Sounds pretty awesome right into a comp like a Ba-6a
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Post by saltyjames on Jan 7, 2020 8:25:57 GMT -6
.. what? Go line in? I'm using my console pre amps. API. SO much gain! With a 67 you can go line in or just go right into a compressor if the source is loud enough. Sounds pretty awesome right into a comp like a Ba-6a I'd rather use the pad, and here's why: I run the studio like a simpleton to keep things simple. Basically everything is pre-patched for tracking. I have the studio / room inputs set up on the small fader, If I use Line In which normals to the Large Fader I have to flip that channel. It's distracting.
It's an API 2448. And I have the financing payments to prove it! haha
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jan 7, 2020 8:56:24 GMT -6
It's an API 2448. And I have the financing payments to prove it! haha
Hot damn. You must be loving it. I've been looking at the Box2 and 1608 and can't understand why those boards have post fader direct outs. Your board solves that issue with the inline faders. #jealous
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