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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 22, 2016 16:47:31 GMT -6
I turn 40 next month and I've always wanted to sing but I fu*#@n' suck. Don't know if my skull is the wrong shape, bad vocal chords, etc. but no matter how hard I try (and I try a lot) I'm horrible.
So...... I was thinking about getting some tutorial videos for vocal training. Has anybody done this? I don't care about being great, I just want to be able to get my ideas across without feeling humiliated. I write a lot of songs and a lot of lyrics but can't sing them to save my life and it's frustrating as all hell. Am I too old at 40?
Thoughts?
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Post by wiz on Feb 22, 2016 16:51:26 GMT -6
my wife is a singing teacher.
She can make anyone sound better for sure.
Go see a teacher
cheers
Wiz
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Post by ragan on Feb 22, 2016 16:55:30 GMT -6
My mom is a vocal instructor. Wiz is right. Get some lessons. You won't believe how much room for improvement you can uncover. It's not a magic talent thing that you either have or you don't. We all have different starting points but you can always improve. Lots of mental stuff that you just need to really GET regarding support, placement, air. See a teacher!
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 22, 2016 18:33:08 GMT -6
My first thought was to go to a teacher/coach and I think that I'll try to make it happen. It just becomes more expensive. I have no doubt that it will be more effective.
Will taking lessons actually improve vocal tone?
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 22, 2016 18:45:21 GMT -6
my theory is this....well lets call it all my very humble opinion. I am no expert at anything.
you can learn to sing. you have to really want to. there are things you can learn. I've learned a couple. I think that speaking is audio frequencies. if you are not speaking in a perfect monotone, then you're kinda doing a sing song type voice, and thats already possibly singing a little. singing consists of tone, feeling. resonance and vocal fry. resonance is when you hit a kind of magic frequency with the right amount of volume (that does not mean it has to be loud), that it just sounds really beautiful. there is an ecstasy feature to it. vocal fry is your lowest register. its a little scratchy sounding. but in an extremely pleasing and beautiful way. so my use of the word scratchy, is only because I can't think of a really good word to describe it. your use of resonance and vocal fry are extremely important. listen to singers that you absolutely love to the stars. they can be male and female. you can learn from both. your a dude, so try to emulate the singers that you love the most. mine are Sinatra (you can learn an immense amount from him, I super suggest listening to his stuff), JT, MacCartney, Strait, Van the Man, and about a million others. also. listen to yourself singing thru headphones. if you have them loud enough you will be able to hear yourself well. learn from that. too loud is bad though. you do not want to hurt your ears. and you will be pitchy. also, no reverb. that will make you pitchy. also, record yourself. listen to playback. you learn a ton this way. have fun.
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Post by M57 on Feb 23, 2016 6:00:12 GMT -6
First off - Merry birthday, Justin! Second, your voice is fine. I know this to be a fact (I have the secret recordings, remember?) You can match pitch and have a good sense of phrasing. From there, it's simply a matter of leveraging your natural instrument. Where tone is concerned - genre is important. I wouldn't want to hear Steven Tyler singing La Boheme any more than I would Pavaroti singing Dream On. It's clear that good tone in one genre can be crap in another, so the question becomes, "What do great singers share?" I believe it all comes down to control. Control over your tone, pitch, breathing, knowing and manipulating your instrument. Of course, just as with every other instrument - practice is the #1 factor.
That said, there's no question that feedback and advice from a good teacher is never a bad thing. Can you do it yourself? Sure, but you're going to triple the level of difficulty where your goals are concerned. On the other hand, one huge thing you have going in your favor is that you're already wired as a musician, and even more importantly as a composer. You have the ability to hear what you want and then play what you hear - and so it is that you also have the ability to teach yourself with your existing musical knowledge.
Some people think I'm a pretty good pianist, but I'm entirely self-taught - never taken a lesson. The key to whatever success I've had comes from already having studied and learned other instruments (Classical Guitar and Voice). In other words, I know how to learn an instrument. So do you. That said, I've paid a price for my single-minded stubborn arrogance. I can barely read my way out of a 4th grade piano book (though I can read the spots off the page as a vocalist), my technique is all self-devised (as a result, I can't play a two octave scale in both hands, at least not in every key) - And no doubt, I've worked twice as hard for, and probably have half the technical skills of most players at my level of experience. The upside is, my technique (and it's not insignificant) is unique - the things I play can sound unorthodox because I was forced to be innovative in my attempts to achieve those results - and I'd like to think that I have leveraged that as a player and composer.
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Post by Johnkenn on Feb 24, 2016 18:12:31 GMT -6
That's what Autotune is for, right?
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Post by ragan on Feb 24, 2016 18:53:38 GMT -6
My first thought was to go to a teacher/coach and I think that I'll try to make it happen. It just becomes more expensive. I have no doubt that it will be more effective. Will taking lessons actually improve vocal tone? I can absolutely improve your tone. And range. And pitch. And control. Your singing voice is a muscle pushing air resonating in your skull. Understanding and practicing support, breath control and placement will do a lot. Edit: "IT". "IT" can improve your tone. I can't do anything for you : )
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 24, 2016 19:57:55 GMT -6
That's what Autotune is for, right? It'd take a lot more than autotune for me. I need Steven Slate vocal replacement. Like Trigger for vox......
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Post by yotonic on Feb 24, 2016 22:10:36 GMT -6
Ragan is right about air resonating in your skull. You might want to buy one of these Vocal-Ease skull cradles for singers.
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Post by ragan on Feb 24, 2016 22:37:32 GMT -6
Ragan is right about air resonating in your skull. You might want to buy one of these Vocal-Ease skull cradles for singers. Hahahaha. A buddy of mine sent me this video months ago and I couldn't stop laughing about it at the time. So fucking weird. Humans are weird.
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Post by M57 on Feb 25, 2016 5:47:00 GMT -6
Edit: "IT". "IT" can improve your tone. I can't do anything for you : ) LOL I was hoping that was a typo. I would caution that finding the right teacher is important. If what they have you do feels uncomfortable vocally - step away from the teacher. That said there are time tested techniques that are safe and very effective. You can't go wrong with a good bell-canto style "classical" voice teacher. They will teach you solid breathing technique (singing on the breath), how to place and move the sound around in your head, and most importantly, how to avoid vocal fatigue, which leads to poor technique and ultimately leaves you vulnerable to damaging your instrument. From there, you need to take those skills and apply them to your genre - sometimes even breaking the rules - for instance - if you want to sing light and breathy, you need to figure out how to do it in a way where you don't compromise the air support from your chest/diaphram (which is somewhat of a misnomer) and throat. Not that it can't be accomplished otherwise, but the most competent and flexible artists learn to follow the rules before they break them. We've all heard stories about famous singers who, faced with the damage they've done to their instrument, either have to give up singing, or if they're lucky and willing to work for it, work with vocal coaches to repair their instrument and re-learn how to sing properly.
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Post by ragan on Feb 25, 2016 9:19:48 GMT -6
Edit: "IT". "IT" can improve your tone. I can't do anything for you : ) LOL I was hoping that was a typo. I would caution that finding the right teacher is important. If what they have you do feels uncomfortable vocally - step away from the teacher. That said there are time tested techniques that are safe and very effective. You can't go wrong with a good bell-canto style "classical" voice teacher. They will teach you solid breathing technique (singing on the breath), how to place and move the sound around in your head, and most importantly, how to avoid vocal fatigue, which leads to poor technique and ultimately leaves you vulnerable to damaging your instrument. From there, you need to take those skills and apply them to your genre - sometimes even breaking the rules - for instance - if you want to sing light and breathy, you need to figure out how to do it in a way where you don't compromise the air support from your chest/diaphram (which is somewhat of a misnomer) and throat. Not that it can't be accomplished otherwise, but the most competent and flexible artists learn to follow the rules before they break them. We've all heard stories about famous singers who, faced with the damage they've done to their instrument, either have to give up singing, or if they're lucky and willing to work for it, work with vocal coaches to repair their instrument and re-learn how to sing properly. Yeah I was assuming we were talking bel canto but should have said so. Both my parents were classical singers and my mom is a vocal teacher of 30 years or so so I forget that there is other stuff out there as far as training : ) To Odyssey, yeah, don't just got to someone who just is a good singer but has no serious training. Get a real, trained instructor. And like M57 said, you learn the fundamentals first, then you can take that and do what you want, tone and style wise. Support is the most important thing. Once you learn to let your voice float on real support, you'll be really unlikely to mess it up.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 25, 2016 9:47:20 GMT -6
I don't have any experience with this guy, but I've seen a few of his YouTube videos and he seems pretty good. Might be worth checking out. kentamplinvocalacademy.com/
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Post by M57 on Feb 25, 2016 15:44:48 GMT -6
I don't have any experience with this guy, but I've seen a few of his YouTube videos and he seems pretty good. Might be worth checking out. kentamplinvocalacademy.com/Interesting ..but in my experience proper instruction comes from a teacher who can give you feedback, and I'm talking instant feedback.. Someone who can stop you right in the middle of a breath or note, and point out exactly how you're doing it wrong, model it, have you correct it on the spot - then continue to be there as you replicate the technique, re-correcting you the instant you begin to slide back into a bad habit. And because more so than with any other instrument, every voice is different, the instructor must be able to recognize the specific needs of the student. There are just too many paths and nuances, most of which are likely irrelevant, for a video based system to accommodate. ..or is there a live one on one (on-line) component to the academy? I'm not saying something like this wouldn't work, but I'm seeing red flags, starting with "..I can do it, and so can you."
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Post by mobeach on Feb 25, 2016 15:49:15 GMT -6
I turn 40 next month and I've always wanted to sing but I fu*#@n' suck. Don't know if my skull is the wrong shape, bad vocal chords, etc. but no matter how hard I try (and I try a lot) I'm horrible. So...... I was thinking about getting some tutorial videos for vocal training. Has anybody done this? I don't care about being great, I just want to be able to get my ideas across without feeling humiliated. I write a lot of songs and a lot of lyrics but can't sing them to save my life and it's frustrating as all hell. Am I too old at 40? Thoughts? I bought a program about 6 years ago called Vocal Release, it's a series of exercises to learn all of the different techniques, including singing "through the mask" it's worth the money if you practice daily.
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Post by jcoutu1 on Feb 25, 2016 15:59:21 GMT -6
I don't have any experience with this guy, but I've seen a few of his YouTube videos and he seems pretty good. Might be worth checking out. kentamplinvocalacademy.com/Interesting ..but in my experience proper instruction comes from a teacher who can give you feedback, and I'm talking instant feedback.. Someone who can stop you right in the middle of a breath or note, and point out exactly how you're doing it wrong, model it, have you correct it on the spot - then continue to be there as you replicate the technique, re-correcting you the instant you begin to slide back into a bad habit. And because more so than with any other instrument, every voice is different, the instructor must be able to recognize the specific needs of the student. There are just too many paths and nuances, most of which are likely irrelevant, for a video based system to accommodate. ..or is there a live one on one (on-line) component to the academy? I'm not saying something like this wouldn't work, but I'm seeing red flags, starting with "..I can do it, and so can you." Ha, I hadn't dug into pricing, but noticed before that he does Skype lessons. Just checked: 1 – One Hour Web Cam Lesson With Ken Tamplin $360.00 Get real. $360/hour? Pfff.
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Post by M57 on Feb 25, 2016 16:05:27 GMT -6
Interesting ..but in my experience proper instruction comes from a teacher who can give you feedback, and I'm talking instant feedback.. Someone who can stop you right in the middle of a breath or note, and point out exactly how you're doing it wrong, model it, have you correct it on the spot - then continue to be there as you replicate the technique, re-correcting you the instant you begin to slide back into a bad habit. And because more so than with any other instrument, every voice is different, the instructor must be able to recognize the specific needs of the student. There are just too many paths and nuances, most of which are likely irrelevant, for a video based system to accommodate. ..or is there a live one on one (on-line) component to the academy? I'm not saying something like this wouldn't work, but I'm seeing red flags, starting with "..I can do it, and so can you." Ha, I hadn't dug into pricing, but noticed before that he does Skype lessons. Just checked: 1 – One Hour Web Cam Lesson With Ken Tamplin $360.00 Get real. $360/hour? Pfff. HAH!.. Hey Justin, Next time you come down to my studio, I'll give you a free lesson - and I guarantee it'll be just as good if not better than any instruction you can get on-line ..at any price!
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 25, 2016 18:28:33 GMT -6
Ha, I hadn't dug into pricing, but noticed before that he does Skype lessons. Just checked: 1 – One Hour Web Cam Lesson With Ken Tamplin $360.00 Get real. $360/hour? Pfff. HAH!.. Hey Justin, Next time you come down to my studio, I'll give you a free lesson - and I guarantee it'll be just as good if not better than any instruction you can get on-line ..at any price! Hmm..let me think about it - voice lessons from a professional music teacher who graduated from Berkley with a focus on Voice. Yup, I'll gladly take you up on that Mark! I think I may have found a program near me that I can afford and will also fit into my schedule. It seems to make sense to learn from someone face to face. This is also what I tell people when they ask about learning guitar. Plus it'll get me out of my comfort zone which is always a good thing. Appreciate all the advice guys you've encouraged me to pursue this.
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 10:12:56 GMT -6
I encourage you with all my heart, bro. singing is so great, its so fun. don't ever believe anybody that tells you that you can't do it. that is a lie. do it, just relax and enjoy it, eh? build on your successes. learn what works and sounds pleasing. allow yourself to fail. find pretty sounds that you can make. a big thing is finding a key for a song (any and all songs that you want to do), that fits your vocal range good enough. your vocal range will grow, as you sing more and more. don't give up. someday, you will sing things that you never thought were possible for you to do.
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Post by matt on Feb 28, 2016 15:02:54 GMT -6
And here I thought all along that it was about posture:
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 15:30:11 GMT -6
hahahahhahaha excellent!! there's a very large kernel of truth to that. attitude is everything at times. you get in the zone, and you use the Force. its energy, you know. it is a production of emotion.
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 28, 2016 15:45:32 GMT -6
And here I thought all along that it was about posture: Or the armadillo in the trousers........
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Post by odyssey76 on Feb 28, 2016 15:47:28 GMT -6
I encourage you with all my heart, bro. singing is so great, its so fun. don't ever believe anybody that tells you that you can't do it. that is a lie. do it, just relax and enjoy it, eh? build on your successes. learn what works and sounds pleasing. allow yourself to fail. find pretty sounds that you can make. a big thing is finding a key for a song (any and all songs that you want to do), that fits your vocal range good enough. your vocal range will grow, as you sing more and more. don't give up. someday, you will sing things that you never thought were possible for you to do. Thanks chasmanian the encouragement is appreciated! I'm going to do it, it's just a matter of finding the right teacher/program...
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Post by chasmanian on Feb 28, 2016 16:11:53 GMT -6
excellent. to clarify one thing I said:
my experience is this (not a pro, just a dude who sings many hours a week my whole life).
the thing with the key to sing a song in, can be very song specific. I'm trying to say, the key or range of keys that are excellent for your voice (you're in a range where your voice is strongest for THAT song), can vary by song.
it can vary by your energy level and even emotional state. singing is a natural thing to do. one thing that can be very attractive about a singer's performance, is how relaxed they are. if the singer is all tensed up, and on the verge of exploding 100% of the time for every second of every song........well, maybe not the best. sometimes, you just find a pretty tone that is the center of the song, and then you sort of oscillate your voice up and down around that tone. I remember reading that JT does not have a huge vocal range, but its what he does with what he has. (may have read the same about George Strait.) saw an interview with JT. he said he's soothing himself when he's singing. works for me, too. (feel like I wrote this recently. sorry if I am repeating myself in this thread.) peace out, bro.
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