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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 10, 2016 23:33:43 GMT -6
I will go on record and say that B is my favorite. Whichever is which, that is my favorite mix.
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Post by gregwurth on Mar 11, 2016 14:05:12 GMT -6
Ok guys here's the video with the reveal at the end. I think that the mixes are very close and as I expected everyone has quite different preferences on their favorite. I was able to have an honest blind listen with someone else switching for me. I did find that I kept leaning toward the Oracle and to my ear I felt the Oracle was more punchy and the snare tended to poke out a bit more. The In The Box mix to me sounded a bit sterile, it was more 2D as where the others sounded more dimensional. The souncraft mix was my 2nd pick. It sounded a touch more rounded off on the transients. I think that because I am intimately familiar with the sound of the Oracle I was instinctually leaning towards it. I'm curious if cowboycoalminer had the same instict with his soundcraft mix. This was overall a fun experiement and I'd love to do a similar thing on more mixes from different sources. So feel free to send some stems over greg@greg-wurth.com
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Post by jcoutu1 on Mar 11, 2016 14:13:44 GMT -6
Did anyone stick this into ABXer (http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Audio/ABXer.shtml) and reliably pick out the different mixes? When I listened on Soundcloud and Pro Tools, I gravitated towards B, but wasn't reliable enough with ABXer to make a conclusive decision.
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Post by javamad on Mar 11, 2016 16:02:41 GMT -6
I have to say that, for me, listening to the video it was very difficult to hear the differences compared to downloading the files in 32/96k.
I would recommend that anyone who is considering buying summing gear try the files that Greg has put up. Its a lot more revealing than the squished youtube sound.
I was definitely surprised to hear the end result :-)
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Post by nobtwiddler on Mar 11, 2016 18:30:27 GMT -6
OK so watching and listening to Greg's vid... Funny enough I picked #1 as my favorite... #2 was second, But I disliked the slightly laid back drums on #3 as well as the reduced soundstage.
So I guess, I'm a old school analog guy, (emphasis on OLD!)
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Post by gregwurth on Mar 11, 2016 18:56:08 GMT -6
Very cool to hear everyone's thoughts here. I know these kinds of test are relevant to some capacity but for me I can never trully rely on something like this to judge my opinion on a summing solution. I personally own a Burl b32 as well (which I'd had included in this test if it wasn't out on loan) and I have learned that when you mix through a specific unit be it a console or summing you make all your mix decisions based on what you are hearing and how that unit reacts. So to go ahead and toss that same stem out into another box isn't ever going to give you the expected results. For example when I first designed the Oracle and received the working prototype I was right at the end of a mix using the Burl B32 and I wanted to run it into the Oracle to hear it that way and I printed mixes through both. What I found was that the B32 sounded much more like my mix and the one through the Oracle sounded good but some elements were just not right. So I ended up using the Oracle but I had to make some adjustments to get it to where it needed to be for the final mix. So the lesson for me was that it's imperative to use the summing box from the very start.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Mar 11, 2016 19:30:53 GMT -6
Very cool to hear everyone's thoughts here. I know these kinds of test are relevant to some capacity but for me I can never trully rely on something like this to judge my opinion on a summing solution. I personally own a Burl b32 as well (which I'd had included in this test if it wasn't out on loan) and I have learned that when you mix through a specific unit be it a console or summing you make all your mix decisions based on what you are hearing and how that unit reacts. So to go ahead and toss that same stem out into another box isn't ever going to give you the expected results. For example when I first designed the Oracle and received the working prototype I was right at the end of a mix using the Burl B32 and I wanted to run it into the Oracle to hear it that way and I printed mixes through both. What I found was that the B32 sounded much more like my mix and the one through the Oracle sounded good but some elements were just not right. So I ended up using the Oracle but I had to make some adjustments to get it to where it needed to be for the final mix. So the lesson for me was that it's imperative to use the summing box from the very start. You're right, Greg. Whatever a person is mixing to influences every decision for THAT person. Someone can jump on my board and make a mix sound different than I can. I'm used to this ole piece of crap. We've been together awhile now. Probably why my ear was drawn to B. I wonder if we in this game will ever learn that there is no absolute "best" of anything? It's what is best to ourselves, no?
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 12, 2016 7:09:22 GMT -6
I think its not too much about which tool I use but its about what I can do with it. For example, if a mix makes the impression to be finished I love to push lightly the output section of the Allen and Heath. I yet have not heard a plug in doing this so sweet.
Or you cranck the input of a strip to destroy the signal..... a one knop move. With a mouse.... many moves.
In the meantime I learned to just like mixing but I prefer doing it hybrid because it feels diffrent and the mix comes togehter naturally...
Sorry for my bad English but I hope you get my point?..
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Post by Martin John Butler on Mar 12, 2016 8:59:13 GMT -6
Well, I chose B a few pages back. Intellectually, I could point out things that the other mixes had that B didn't, but B just felt more pulled together. It had the thing I take for granted when hearing a good record, a certain balance where all the parts were there, but none were sticking out like a bone through skin. That means you can pump up the volume, and the track will still sound good.
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 12, 2016 11:26:19 GMT -6
Well, I chose B a few pages back. Intellectually, I could point out things that the other mixes had that B didn't, but B just felt more pulled together. It had the thing I take for granted when hearing a good record, a certain balance where all the parts were there, but none were sticking out like a bone through skin. That means you can pump up the volume, and the track will still sound good. True ITB mixes often go on my nerves when heard loud.....
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Post by mrholmes on Mar 12, 2016 13:38:16 GMT -6
Ok guys here's the video with the reveal at the end. I think that the mixes are very close and as I expected everyone has quite different preferences on their favorite. I was able to have an honest blind listen with someone else switching for me. I did find that I kept leaning toward the Oracle and to my ear I felt the Oracle was more punchy and the snare tended to poke out a bit more. The In The Box mix to me sounded a bit sterile, it was more 2D as where the others sounded more dimensional. The souncraft mix was my 2nd pick. It sounded a touch more rounded off on the transients. I think that because I am intimately familiar with the sound of the Oracle I was instinctually leaning towards it. I'm curious if cowboycoalminer had the same instict with his soundcraft mix. This was overall a fun experiement and I'd love to do a similar thing on more mixes from different sources. So feel free to send some stems over greg@greg-wurth.com That was a good thing having someone else doing the switching. In Mix B C I now can hear that everything is more glued together. And the harmonics of the low end build a union now. The guitar solo has in B and C a more stable image and glues better with the reverb. Its a thing I know from mixing on my console... But its very subtle with this material, hard to hear. I was pretty surprised that my favorite is not the oracle.
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Post by gregwurth on Jun 6, 2016 18:22:42 GMT -6
Here's a quick overview of The Oracle's rear panel
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Post by Guitar on Jun 7, 2016 7:27:57 GMT -6
For some reason A was my least favorite. I thought the other two were a little closer.
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Post by gregwurth on Jul 19, 2016 15:32:50 GMT -6
Hey Guys,
I will have a booth at this years AES Convention in LA and will have a demo rack for people to test out The Oracle. If anyone has any stems they'd like to submit for demo purposes please send to greg@greg-wurth.com. Also if anyone plans to be at the show I hope you come by and say hello!
Take Care,
Greg
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