|
|
Post by winetree on Dec 30, 2015 13:59:36 GMT -6
Has anyone had any experience using tube traps. I don't mean Bass traps, diffusers, flat panels, Etc. The round tube traps. I know Bruce Swedien uses them in a circle with the artist inside and sometimes around the room. They create a unified early reflection sound field inside the circle so movement doesn't affect the proxsimity and volume differences as much. I've also seen some DIY of building them yourself. I'm considering getting 8 of the free standing units for the studio. I was hoping for any comments. www.acousticsciences.com/products/quick-sound-field |
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Dec 30, 2015 14:03:49 GMT -6
Has anyone had any experience using tube traps. I don't mean Bass traps, diffusers, flat panels, Etc. The round tube traps. I know Bruce Swedien uses them in a circle with the artist inside and sometimes around the room. They create a unified early reflection sound field inside the circle so movement doesn't affect the proxsimity and volume differences as much. I've also seen some DIY of building them yourself. I'm considering getting 8 of the free standing units for the studio. I was hoping for any comments. no!!! Robert! Bad Robert!! |
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Dec 30, 2015 15:12:34 GMT -6
Interesting. Michael Wagner likes them too, actually.
|
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Dec 30, 2015 18:59:26 GMT -6
$500 bucks a piece!!! I hope they come with Michael Jackson and an SM7b........oh crap, maybe just the SM7b I guess. tonycamphd - how much to DIY something like this? |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2015 19:16:22 GMT -6
ya I thought a little rich for my blood
|
|
|
|
Post by tonycamphd on Dec 30, 2015 20:46:39 GMT -6
don't get me wrong, they are just fine(maybe a bit $teep), I was just razzing Robert because we both are supposed to keep watch on each other to prevent ourselves getting into "more shit", we both have enough on the plate as it is 8) odyssey76 Justin, if i remember correctly, they are specifically fixed up concrete tubes, and they work pretty well, so not much $ at all, you could drill the BAD patterns on them and make them even more diffusive as well as absorbent, i have some pdf's with different size holes in the BAD patterns if anyone wants to do it, it's a shit load of drilling though! |
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Dec 30, 2015 20:49:52 GMT -6
ya I thought a little rich for my blood That's what I thought at first. About $4,500 shipped for 8 of them. Funny we can spend that much on a processor but when it comes to years of better acoustics for recorded tracks it's too much. There are some DIY builds on Google that i'm considering building, but it's a lot easier to write a check. |
|
|
|
Post by kcatthedog on Dec 30, 2015 21:22:26 GMT -6
I am not arguing against treatment but wondering about the cost of design, materials and manufacture: seems like an awful big mark up ?
|
|
|
|
Post by M57 on Dec 30, 2015 21:30:19 GMT -6
ya I thought a little rich for my blood That's what I thought at first. About $4,500 shipped for 8 of them. Funny we can spend that much on a processor but when it comes to years of better acoustics for recorded tracks it's too much. There are some DIY builds on Google that i'm considering building, but it's a lot easier to write a check. I've spent more on traps and clouds than any one piece of gear I own. With so much focus on the 'gear,' it's downright painful to part with big money for something so seemingly low-tech ..and mine is just a home studio, but if there's anything I've learned from lurking and participating in these forums, it's that the closer you get to the music in the chain, the more important the component. I.e., the performance is more important than the space, which is in turn more important than the microphone, then the pre-amp, etc.. So the irony is, Santa just bought me an X-touch controller. It's nowhere near the signal path but it's got a bazillion buttons that all light up real pretty, and a big wheel, and time code read-outs and scribble strips - it looks crazy ass important and I just about peed in my pants cause I was having too much fun with it and didn't want to walk to the bathroom. I'll probably start a review thread on it, but bottom line: the thing rocks right out of the box with Logic X. |
|
|
|
Post by mrholmes on Dec 30, 2015 21:39:47 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 4:33:19 GMT -6
If you think the prices of the genuine ones are steep then try buying them in Australian dollars and importing them from the US!
As a result I'm currently building a bunch of DIY Tube Traps.
I've built two 6 1/2 foot tall 16" diameter tube trap already and am working on sixteen 9" versions.
I'll post up some pics of my DIY ones in the next week or so.
|
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Dec 31, 2015 4:50:09 GMT -6
ya I thought a little rich for my blood That's what I thought at first. About $4,500 shipped for 8 of them. Funny we can spend that much on a processor but when it comes to years of better acoustics for recorded tracks it's too much. There are some DIY builds on Google that i'm considering building, but it's a lot easier to write a check. I agree with you 100% - we really do get caught up with gear and spend our time obsessing about processors when the focus should really be much more about the room and acoustics first. I just had sticker shock when I saw thousands of dollars for a few of these. I'd certainly be curious to know what type of affect they have on the source. Hey Tony - can you email me the .pdf on this design. I'd like to see what goes into these. Thanks. |
|
|
|
Post by odyssey76 on Dec 31, 2015 5:24:36 GMT -6
If you think the prices of the genuine ones are steep then try buying them in Australian dollars and importing them from the US! As a result I'm currently building a bunch of DIY Tube Traps. I've built two 6 1/2 foot tall 20" diameter tube trap already and am working on sixteen 9" versions. I'll post up some pics of my DIY ones in the next week or so. I'd really like to see these......20" diameter is enormous. Are they concrete? |
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Dec 31, 2015 8:32:19 GMT -6
If you think the prices of the genuine ones are steep then try buying them in Australian dollars and importing them from the US! As a result I'm currently building a bunch of DIY Tube Traps. I've built two 6 1/2 foot tall 20" diameter tube trap already and am working on sixteen 9" versions. I'll post up some pics of my DIY ones in the next week or so. I'd really like to see these......20" diameter is enormous. Are they concrete? First of all I need to make a correction, they are 16" (400mm) in diameter, not 20". (See pic of prototype in control room) Attachment DeletedI think I had some kind of a brain fade when I made the original post. However I am thinking about constructing some 20" versions. Also no, they are not concrete. The original Tube Traps are made from compressed fibreglass. (See pic)  |
|
|
|
Post by swurveman on Dec 31, 2015 11:16:54 GMT -6
I'd really like to see these......20" diameter is enormous. Are they concrete? First of all I need to make a correction, they are 16" (400mm) in diameter, not 20". (See pic of prototype in control room) I think I had some kind of a brain fade when I made the original post. However I am thinking about constructing some 20" versions. Also no, they are not concrete. The original Tube Traps are made from compressed fibreglass. (See pic) Thanks for posting rowmat. I'd be interested in knowing how to get that thick, dense fiberglass to bend. |
|
|
|
Post by winetree on Dec 31, 2015 11:29:50 GMT -6
The tubes are fiberglass insulators for large pipes.
The tubes are already formed and wrapped with aluminum foil.
You just need to find out where they are available.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ward on Jan 1, 2016 9:08:19 GMT -6
I'm thinking along the lines of "sure, I could just build these myself... for 20% of the cost."
|
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jan 1, 2016 16:12:17 GMT -6
That's what I thought at first. About $4,500 shipped for 8 of them. Funny we can spend that much on a processor but when it comes to years of better acoustics for recorded tracks it's too much. There are some DIY builds on Google that i'm considering building, but it's a lot easier to write a check. I've spent more on traps and clouds than any one piece of gear I own. With so much focus on the 'gear,' it's downright painful to part with big money for something so seemingly low-tech ..and mine is just a home studio, but if there's anything I've learned from lurking and participating in these forums, it's that the closer you get to the music in the chain, the more important the component. I.e., the performance is more important than the space, which is in turn more important than the microphone, then the pre-amp, etc.. So the irony is, Santa just bought me an X-touch controller. It's nowhere near the signal path but it's got a bazillion buttons that all light up real pretty, and a big wheel, and time code read-outs and scribble strips - it looks crazy ass important and I just about peed in my pants cause I was having too much fun with it and didn't want to walk to the bathroom. I'll probably start a review thread on it, but bottom line: the thing rocks right out of the box with Logic X. please do start a thread and do a review, please cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jan 1, 2016 16:15:18 GMT -6
Really interesting... and rowmat is right, i looked at getting these things in Oz, and thats was maybe a decade ago... the price was horrendous.. but then so were Real Traps, and years later GIK stuff... In the end I built 22 bass traps myself, god I hope I never have to cut another sheet of tontine acoustisorb again in my life. I would be really interested to follow the DIY of a set of these... cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by wiz on Jan 1, 2016 16:15:44 GMT -6
BTW rowmat where abouts in Oz are you? cheers Wiz |
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2016 18:01:17 GMT -6
BTW rowmat where abouts in Oz are you? cheers Wiz Hi Wiz, I'm in Melbourne. |
|
|
|
Post by rowmat on Jan 1, 2016 18:18:18 GMT -6
Really interesting... and rowmat is right, i looked at getting these things in Oz, and thats was maybe a decade ago... the price was horrendous.. but then so were Real Traps, and years later GIK stuff... In the end I built 22 bass traps myself, god I hope I never have to cut another sheet of tontine acoustisorb again in my life. I would be really interested to follow the DIY of a set of these... cheers Wiz I believe the genuine ASC tube traps are made of preformed fibreglass tubes as used for pipe insulation. This is basically what a Tube Trap is constructed from (see photo below) although the density of the fibreglass needs to be considered. As some of these are covered with either foil or paper, 180 degrees radius of the covering would need to be removed to allow one side of the tube to absorb and the other to reflect, or more correctly, diffuse the sound waves. Tubes Traps are designed to have a fully absorbive side and a diffusing side in the midrange and high frequencies to prevent the room from becoming too acoustically dead.  Unfortunately I couldn't find any preformed tubes of the correct size and density here in Oz so I ended up using Knauf Ecose Rockwool batts which are compressed between an inner and outer tubular wire mesh cage capped at each end with plywood. The two critical factors are the density which effects the air flow through the fibreglass (resistance) and the internal air volume (capacitance). The two large ones I built were quite difficult to construct although I learnt quite a lot in the process. The smaller 9" versions are much easier to handle and will have adjustable stands like the QSF versions. The key to producing lots of these is to use the correct material and get things like the circular wooden ends caps cut in volume by a furniture manufacturer on a C&C machine. Lots of wire mesh is also required as a support cage for the Rockwool batts. All in all it's a lot of work but the other option is to spend at least $20,000 AUD* on genuine Tube Traps if you don't want to DIY. (*which is what you'll need to fork out in order to get enough traps to make a difference if you live in Oz because of the poor AUD > USD exchange rate, shipping cost and import taxes and charges) As there is no Tube Trap distributor here in Australia the only possible way to purchase them from the US would be in a large bulk buy and get them sent via sea in a container. In other words FILL a shipping container. The problem is finding enough buyers and having them agree on what sizes and colours they wanted. It would require cash up front and no backing out once the order was shipped. I saw a few people on some local forums discussing importing them from the US but I don't think much came of it. The other thing is you need quite a lot of these to obtain a real improvement in the acoustics. Sticking a small (9") Tube trap in each corner won't achieve much inspite of the "oohs and aahs" of the some of the hi-fi fraternity. Yes they do work but the larger they are, and the more you use, the better the result. |
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on Jan 1, 2016 23:57:49 GMT -6
It's not cutting edge, but I just buy Sonotubes in different diameters from my local concrete distributor, and then I wrap them with Owens Corning 705. They work.
|
|
|
|
Post by tasteliketape on Jan 2, 2016 0:06:03 GMT -6
Yotonic do you just wrap them or is there anything in the middle?
|
|
|
|
Post by yotonic on Jan 2, 2016 0:14:17 GMT -6
On the bigger ones I just took a drill and a hole saw and perforated them and stuffed the inside with insulation. On the narrower ones I just wrapped them with insulation taped the seam and wrapped it with Fabric. Pretty affordable and simple. I didn't sew anything I just used a thin piece of trim behind the fabric seam and stapled to it.
|
|
