Compressing snare

I just lost two posts in a row. Magic Mouse, my ass. Anyway...in short--they're on backups from a different system last year. It might be a good idea to try to recall it before a client from that era calls for a recall, though, knock on wood, I think CDs are all pressed...but:

Won't do you any direct good. For the same reason plug ins are a fail concept. It's actually MORE telling the generalities of what tools I reach for--ie, clipping the transient with a distortion algorithm rather than compressor. It's not like if I send you presets of the entire chain it would make your snare sound anything alike...

But, I will also say the sound of the snare has MUCH more to do with all the other tracks--they're phase/time relationships and bleed and ambience...than it does with the one or two faders that have direct snare mics. You have to iron out all the other stuff before you TOUCH a compressor or EQ--otherwise, you are playing tonal Whack-a-Mole. 

I had totally forgotten about that thing...If it works, I WANT THAT BAD...

For MJB: the recalls=gave me fits. But, I finally got them up...and proves my point--not a lot in common. But, both were weird scenarios for me--in trying to make this album seem cohesive, despite being done on a weekends and down time over many years, I did a lot of work on the drums to get them relatively consistent. Which means doing different things to the different mic configs and in the case of How Far I've Come--a different snare drum itself. 

So, on How Far, there actually IS a sample layered in with the real snare--because the drummer cut that one with no snares. For some reason. Meaning--the wires at the bottom of the drum. So it's a dead "donk"...where the entire rest of the album is what I would call a typical snare sound with, you know snares. So, I layered in a snare from BFD2 with lots rattle, and use TD to remove/soften the attack. Then those two mono channels are bussed together into a snare buss, where you find the MPX that started the discussion.

The overheads had the typical (for me) TD to pull a few DB of sustain...but, it also had an instance of a plugin called monofilter, which basically sums frequencies below X to mono gradually--and elliptical filter of sorts. So, there must've been some serious phase issues with the overheads that I felt like I couldn't correct. Or, you know--I did it, it sounded good and I left it. I DO see the track is named "overheads corrected", which means there was likely a timing discrepancy with when the snare arrived at the two mics. Thus, I'd have adjusted that offline and saved that as a different file. 

In terms of compression, the kick has two. there's a beater track and some kind of in the shell. The batter has an L2, which would be functional peak control....then the two are subbed together where there's an La3a plug. That's the only traditional compressor on the kit. MPX and Transient Designer were used as I described earlier and VCC was ever present and set on API. 

In fact the other--Harvest...VCC was set on the Neve and driven HARD-so I must've thought it was thin and bright compared to the others on the album. And there was not only an instance of MPX on the snare but also strapped across teh drum buss. It would be misleading to read much into the Harvest settings though, because seeing it reminds me that it was an edited drum track--edited MANY years ago, and I can hear some expansion, so who knows what all I printed with the edits. 

Suffice to say--couldn't find two different treatments to end up--well, they sound pretty similar, no-grand scheme? 

Before I write a novel--I want to point out that that is why so many experienced engineers talk in generalities--no one (or no one I know) is keeping secrets. it's that it's all different. And different tools are appropriate for this and that. So, let me succinctly answer JK's original query:

I rarely use traditional compressors on the snare unless there's serious performance issues. Instead, I find that really what I was trying for years to accomplish with compressors in a digital world was to lose the "musically irrelevant" transient on the front of the hit, bumping up the shell tone up--and MPX or Saturn or various other clippers do that and leave behind an important "sizzle/crunch" in place of the transient it absorbs. I did it for years with compressors of all sorts--that, too, is a valid approach that I used for years. My think now is that I don't touch an EQ or compressor until I've spun the dial on VCC to find the most fitting saturation and amount.

You're both welcome.  

I think I hit a new favorite last night. Hard compression on the snare so that it's pretty even across all of the hit, then feeding into an expander, then to a transient designer. I was able to dial in that *round attack* and pop that you hear on so many records finally.

I tend to get *too much* shell and head tone and not enough of the *pop*. Most of the EQ I've done is to cut the shell "bonk/donk" sound without much of anything else. Moving the mics back helps this but I get way too much bleed in any positioning, even with hypercardiod mics.

I haven't tried the distortion yet though.

See if a combo of soft clipping and transient designer will work for you. Check my work for examples... probably not what you're going for but give it a go and see.

Depends which snare, I usually tune them up very tight, I think the Piccolo is at an A right now. I mic'd underneath the snare for my last project, didn't use it much, it's very low in the mix. I find the actual snare sound comes out from rooms and overheads.

Samples of the snare in the OH and Room mics for me (don't do it often), I find the snare sound from a bottom mic just kind of papery and useless. OH and Room sound better to my ears.

Does triggering white noise from the snare work? I've never tried it.

I trigger white noise mixed in with the undersnare mic most of the time. My overheads get a lot of tone, but very little of the snare wires.

I think I've found a better balance between using an I5 on top and MK012 on bottom instead of using an SM57 and whatever on bottom. Seems to sound a lot more natural with a fairly deep but narrow cut around 400hz on top and a cut around 600hz on bottom. Top has some 10K added, bottom has some 7k and 12k added.

Yep. I actually cut somewhere between 3K and 5K even on my overheads to get rid of some of the CLANK of the cymbals and allow other instruments to breath.

I've been trying an I5 as the top snare mic. A little more clarity than a 57, but not like I hear from other's tracks. I have to position it low and just outside the rim to get a fairly even tone and the pattern helps a lot with the bleed. I'm still hitting it with a little slow attack compression and it sounds OK, but I still need a lot of under-snare mic to get the wires. This mic needs cuts at 400hz and around 3khz with a little boost above 7k.