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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 27, 2015 12:14:28 GMT -6
He started it.  |
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Post by donr on Jul 27, 2015 12:40:04 GMT -6
Lots of people inside the industry fail to understand the role advertising plays. Back in the '70s the cheapest form of market research was calling local record stores to learn what people were buying. This worked very well for us. It was a supercharger on sales although not the instigator of sales like many people assumed. Beginning in the '90s advertisers started choosing music based on its ability to sort listeners into the demographic groups they wanted to pitch to. Focus groups were employed to do this. At that point exposure diverged from sales to the point that airplay no longer reflects sales much at all. He who pays the piper is who calls the tune. Good point Bob. The ascendancy of late 70's playlist consultants and market research was the beginning of Radio destroying itself with its audience, although it worked gangbusters for a while. But the Billboard sales charts were and are what they are no matter what a radio station plays. And radio was always funded by advertisers. www.radioiloveit.com/radio-programming-radio-formats/boss-radio-consultant-bill-drake-on-top-40-radio-programming/Check this out for lessons from radio consultant pioneer Bill Drake on how to max profit and make a radio station more craptastic. I think Bob is on to something with future streaming DJ's and 'radio' stations within streaming sites and services. If a DJ playing his/her own taste gets an audience in the new distribution medium, there may be hope for good music to get promoted without particular bias due to ad targeting or languishing in the ghettos of genre programing. Demographic ads could still be targeted via who-hears-what on general websites, etc based on what you listen to at any moment. Internet advertising is pinpoint targeted now, I see ads for stuff I just looked at on another web page 5 minutes before. |
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2015 13:08:31 GMT -6
Lots of people inside the industry fail to understand the role advertising plays. Back in the '70s the cheapest form of market research was calling local record stores to learn what people were buying. This worked very well for us. It was a supercharger on sales although not the instigator of sales like many people assumed. Beginning in the '90s advertisers started choosing music based on its ability to sort listeners into the demographic groups they wanted to pitch to. Focus groups were employed to do this. At that point exposure diverged from sales to the point that airplay no longer reflects sales much at all. He who pays the piper is who calls the tune. Good point Bob. The ascendancy of late 70's playlist consultants and market research was the beginning of Radio destroying itself with its audience, although it worked gangbusters for a while. But the Billboard sales charts were and are what they are no matter what a radio station plays. And radio was always funded by advertisers. www.radioiloveit.com/radio-programming-radio-formats/boss-radio-consultant-bill-drake-on-top-40-radio-programming/Check this out for lessons from radio consultant pioneer Bill Drake on how to max profit and make a radio station more craptastic. I think Bob is on to something with future streaming DJ's and 'radio' stations within streaming sites and services. If a DJ playing his/her own taste gets an audience in the new distribution medium, there may be hope for good music to get promoted without particular bias due to ad targeting or languishing in the ghettos of genre programing. Demographic ads could still be targeted via who-hears-what on general websites, etc based on what you listen to at any moment. Internet advertising is pinpoint targeted now, I see ads for stuff I just looked at on another web page 5 minutes before. [br The problem is all of these streaming services come from the corporate world of "we hire a consultant to tell us what toilet paper to use" I keep hearing about DJs and streaming but nobody has said who's programming ! |
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Post by donr on Jul 27, 2015 13:23:34 GMT -6
Eric, one success story is Underground Garage on Sirius/XM, Little Steven Van Zant's channel. He programs it, and so do the other DJ's he has, including Kid Leo, Andrew Loog Oldham, Handsome Dick Manitoba, and Manfred Mann, to name a few. It's the only XM station I can listen to for any length of time without changing the station or turning the radio off. XM 21.
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2015 13:41:13 GMT -6
Eric, one success story is Underground Garage on Sirius/XM, Little Steven Van Zant's channel. He programs it, and so do the other DJ's he has, including Kid Leo, Andrew Loog Oldham, Handsome Dick Manitoba, and Manfred Mann, to name a few. It's the only XM station I can listen to for any length of time without changing the station or turning the radio off. XM 21. I know that's the example everybody uses but Don in talking to my friends in broadcast, the same old hacks view streaming as their new promised land of profit! AAA and Progresive programming work great for public radio and can work for profit based BUT Programing, Talent, sales and Mgmt all have to be on the same page and look at it as a niche know the demographic and stick with it! |
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Post by donr on Jul 27, 2015 13:47:02 GMT -6
Eric, one success story is Underground Garage on Sirius/XM, Little Steven Van Zant's channel. He programs it, and so do the other DJ's he has, including Kid Leo, Andrew Loog Oldham, Handsome Dick Manitoba, and Manfred Mann, to name a few. It's the only XM station I can listen to for any length of time without changing the station or turning the radio off. XM 21. I know that's the example everybody uses but Don in talking to my friends in broadcast, the same old hacks view streaming as their new promised land of profit! AAA and Progresive programming work great for public radio and can work for profit based BUT Programing, Talent, sales and Mgmt all have to be on the same page and look at it as a niche know the demographic and stick with it! It seems we are up against the same old hacks in EVERY area of life, commerce and government, doesn't it? Could it be it has not occured to anyone but us that a radio show programmed only by someone's good taste in quality music might be commercially successful? |
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Post by matt on Jul 27, 2015 13:54:41 GMT -6
I would definitely sell my soul for a Stella Artois sponsorship. Definitely.
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Post by jazznoise on Jul 27, 2015 15:53:50 GMT -6
Hey! I thought Billy started it.
<In a nasally, bald headed voice>
The fed is a vampire
*dun dun a dun dun dun*
set to drain
the free market, held up in chains
and what do I get, for my fiat?
Devalued bitcoin, and they tax my guns.
</joke> Long day at practice, this is a sea change I don't want to get into anymore than the rest.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 27, 2015 16:17:35 GMT -6
Streaming is cheap enough to implement that it doesn't need to be corporate. I'm not a fan of the DJ's "taste" which turns into ego tripping. A DJ should be a companion to the listener experiencing the music people are actually laying money out for.
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Post by donr on Jul 27, 2015 17:03:08 GMT -6
Hey! I thought Billy started it. <In a nasally, bald headed voice>The fed is a vampire *dun dun a dun dun dun* set to drain the free market, held up in chains and what do I get, for my fiat? Devalued bitcoin, and they tax my guns. </joke> Long day at practice, this is a sea change I don't want to get into anymore than the rest. Ha. Picture a men's choir: "The Bald Headed Nasal Voices," singing the Great Amerian Song Book. Mic'd with instrument grade omni condensers, recorded with sonorous electronics and converters, with a split to a direct-to-disk lathe engineer channeling the spirit of Doug Sax. The choir looks like Billy, or Gene Hackman playing Lex Luthor. Or Tor Johnson. The recording gets regular play in high end hifi showrooms and praised on GS and here. |
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Post by b1 on Jul 27, 2015 18:37:55 GMT -6
It seems that sane DJ's are reserved for NPR. Most others have too much going on in the "Morning Zoo" realm + double latte IV's, the last time I listened - ages ago. Then the common internet radio has the irritating Geico commercials all day long, the last time I listened - ages ago. Almost rather hear an ego than that. Radio and digital distribution seems to be hopelessly without a better workable solution; to date. They can design an artificial heart, but putting all of the music biz pieces together is like trying to build a solar system. If it "big-banged" it's way into oblivion, it would magnetise and gravitate to fuse back into the same old mess it is now. Just the supra-nature of the money clans.
Need a new industry formed to force all parts of the business to reinvent itself.
If that couldn't happen through the internet, then it's a lost cause...
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2015 18:59:27 GMT -6
I know that's the example everybody uses but Don in talking to my friends in broadcast, the same old hacks view streaming as their new promised land of profit! AAA and Progresive programming work great for public radio and can work for profit based BUT Programing, Talent, sales and Mgmt all have to be on the same page and look at it as a niche know the demographic and stick with it! It seems we are up against the same old hacks in EVERY area of life, commerce and government, doesn't it? Could it be it has not occured to anyone but us that a radio show programmed only by someone's good taste in quality music might be commercially successful? OK Don this story shows how it's gotten worse thanks to pigeon hole demographics. This weekend I was talking about your show coming up in KC Opening for Boston with a guy who's a huge Boston fan, he didn't know a thing because while he loved Boston he never listens to the classic Rock Station or read the local papers! In the old Days before CC owned every station, you would at least see give always and hear promos on some other formats ! Now this is where you should fit if you don't your screwed! And so is your favorite act unless you have fiends who know your taste! What Sucks is this guy will now go to a Broker and spend a bunch on Tickets and the Broker will make the most cash! |
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Post by donr on Jul 27, 2015 20:24:00 GMT -6
It seems that sane DJ's are reserved for NPR. Most others have too much going on in the "Morning Zoo" realm + double latte IV's, the last time I listened - ages ago. Then the common internet radio has the irritating Geico commercials all day long, the last time I listened - ages ago. Almost rather hear an ego than that. Radio and digital distribution seems to be hopelessly without a better workable solution; to date. They can design an artificial heart, but putting all of the music biz pieces together is like trying to build a solar system. If it "big-banged" it's way into oblivion, it would magnetise and gravitate to fuse back into the same old mess it is now. Just the supra-nature of the money clans. Need a new industry formed to force all parts of the business to reinvent itself. My wife likes oldies, and while we ate dinner tonight, she put on the oldies music channel on our FIOS cable system. Whoever programmed that did a nice job, mixing a few familiar overplayed hits with lots more seldom played tunes, and mixing 'oldies' vintage recordings nicely within a 20 year + period. The cable music channels are part of the cable 'service' and fee, with no other charge, but whoever did the nuts and bolts curating the oldies library, in this instance did a good job. The commercials are on the video only, there's also tidbits of obscure knowledge about the artists. If you can't see the screen, it's commercial free. Someone did their job, and I appreciated their work. I dislike morning zoo radio (and morning TV, where everyone is having 'way too good a time for the hour, IMO) shows as much as you, I never watch them. Disclaimer, my band BOC is appearing on Fox and Friends Friday morning, August 28. We're gonna play a 35 or so minute set in Times Square and the TV show will air one whole tune, snippets of others, and a brief interview segment. I'm grateful for the spot, audience of 1.5mil, 45+ yrs after our biggest hit. I'm not gonna run down commercial media giving us some props when it's totally up to them to do it. Remember ANY music you ever heard on commercial radio was supported by advertisers. If there's any era of popular music you are nostalgic for or revere, it was also influenced, controlled and funded by similar commercial forces that are in play today. The radio game changed largely in reaction to technological disruptions in the market, and the diminished influence of music business execs with an interest in the quality of the product, which was also caused by technology, once modern business school grads replaced the old timer music lovers. If record companies STILL controlled people's access to audio recordings, the biz wouldn't be too much different IMO than in my heyday as a recording artist. But the tech revolution killed the skilled craft guild aspect of recorded music creation at the same time. I didn't watch the Billy Corgan video, but I like the text summation of his comments. Wasn't as close as we ever got to Collective Utopia Napster? In Utopia, music would be free and the state would provide housing, nourishment and health care to musicians and creators. Isn't that enough? I'm not a fan of collective utopia. Nice concept, it never works, anywhere. Tech [information age] has disrupted every aspect of life, as the industrial age did before to the agricultural age. It's just what's so. Should NPR determine what you hear on radio? Would gov't keep the big studios and the gifted engineers and techs employed? Not to mention picking the artists that would get heard? I'm off in the weeds here, but you get my drift. Honor and protect the freedoms we have left as individuals. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2015 21:23:25 GMT -6
Yeah but Public radio has found a niche market that will pay to hear new music! classical Guys don't pay anymore ! The format can work and has worked in commercial but not with generic Radio Staff ! Conventional Radio Dumped most of there library when they went Harddisk ! And Don guys like you got screwed ! how many of your songs do you think are on the average big stations hard disk? If somebody tried to do a Show like anything on little Stevie's station the pre production would be huge ! They wouldn't find a CD Turntable or Tapedeck in the booth just a touch screen!
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Post by b1 on Jul 27, 2015 22:32:39 GMT -6
donr, I waited at the edge of the weeds, lol. I'm not a Utopian and think the business end can be handled without gov. intervention, except for copyright laws and such in this case. I may be too idealistic and separate from the present scheme of things. But with the current technology I don't think there's such a thing as being too idealistic. Either the sky or the mind is the limit. The boundless sky won't be realized with the status-quo. The old mindset of, "it needs to be this way to work" is a deficit in thinking, IMO. As for NPR "DJ's", I didn't mean that gov. would be the overseer. I don't know how much NPR derives from the gov. or endowments now, but I think it's less than it used to be. But NPR DJ's are announcers, more or less. There is a professionalism to what they do. Not like Crazy Larry brain-dead dude from WKR_, or wherever. I've studied DRM over the years for different forms of medium with a new game in mind, but I don't personally know enough forward thinkers who would be willing to contribute the sweat equity or capital to such a venture, except when it comes to folks with a stake in the music business, thus my comments of a board of overseers with the capability to administer on behalf of all who are stepped over in the current system, as well as those who rise to the top. Yes there needs to be talent in new artists. That's a given. But it seems when the industry lackey rising artists are on bended knee for their rightful due from the middle men, something is seriously wrong. Where is there room for those controllers in a new industry in this day and age?... and why? I know plenty have prospered in the older system. No reason to kick against what worked. Maybe my thinking is for another generation, but then again, more and more people from later generations lose ability to think outside of the box. I don't think music should be free to all and there can be room for advertising, but not where it becomes the end goal to rake it in with both hands while the foundation which supports them, the artists, are getting the crumbs. Someone is a sucker there. People do actually sell their soul for a supply of the peanuts. But I've witnessed their demise also. That's never been an option for me. We got rid of TV and cable 20+ years ago. It seems that too many people are getting their personality and frame of reference from there. Hardly anything makes me more angry than the advertisement box (TV). They are selling a whole lot more than dish soap there, and society as a whole reflects it vividly and eats it totally! Soap has a value and cost. You either pay it or find a DIY remedy. Not so with media assets. As you mention freedom, that's becoming more of a passing fancy, because of the same corporate structure at all levels feeding off of everything in it's path, or it's figuring out how to get it in it's jaws. The loopholes that enabled the freedoms of the past are being closed up just as surely as the ability to have a unified voice of professionals who solely deem the value of their assets is waning from year to year in internet based time. Little by little it's going away, but if there are a couple or more upcoming generations, they won't notice too much being gone. They will be fully acclimated to the hands in the pockets and eyes in the walls. Live and let live. How so?... That's long been a problem.
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