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Post by b1 on Jul 26, 2015 6:17:18 GMT -6
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Post by keymod on Jul 26, 2015 6:25:24 GMT -6
Is he upset Jay-Z didn't give him a call?
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 26, 2015 7:14:38 GMT -6
I do not think he is upset he is worried about that everything blows up?
And he is right there are still "sell your soul to us" contracts.
There is, and always was, a lot of greed in the music business as well. There is no difference to the Bangsters.
Its a question of integrity of the labels/distributors. They should offer the artists fair deals which make a living possible.
You cant eat the gold EP they gave you.
The business changed but the minds are still in the old greed mode. Its simple, if they do not change their greedy minds artists will stop signing contracts with them.
Why should I sign a contract which leaves the value for my work out.
Lucky freedom from fear to those who found a small label which was founded by a musician. They still sell plastic, they have a small -but loyal- fan base.
I want my songs, those ones I wrote form the heart, to be heard; and not consumed like McDonalds food. You only can have this with formidable customers.
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Post by swurveman on Jul 26, 2015 8:39:53 GMT -6
I really dislike this (I'm paraphrasing) "music is just the lubricant for personal branding" philosophy. I can't imagine if the main goal is to sell advertizing that that mentality is going to produce great music. And no rock star is going to persuade me to buy dish soap or beer any more than some jock. . If what Corgan says is true, we're going to get more "lifestyle music" that is attached to the consumer items bought by people who identify with that lifestyle. It's already boring. Can you imagine more of it?
Guys like Tom Petty must be very grateful that they came of age as artists when they did, free of the focus and the burden of producing their songwriting and music towards the goal of selling advertising.
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Post by yotonic on Jul 26, 2015 9:07:14 GMT -6
Billy Corgan actually is a very powerful artist. I once saw him crack a coconut on stage with his thighs.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 26, 2015 9:45:19 GMT -6
It's just good to see Billy out there looking good and smiling, he's been a little off the dark end in recent years. Who knows maybe a return to form musically as well? I am a huge SP fan.
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Post by NoFilterChuck on Jul 26, 2015 9:59:04 GMT -6
Billy Corgan actually is a very powerful artist. I once saw him crack a coconut on stage with his thighs. LMAO!!!!!!
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 26, 2015 10:05:27 GMT -6
I really dislike this (I'm paraphrasing) "music is just the lubricant for personal branding" philosophy. I can't imagine if the main goal is to sell advertizing that that mentality is going to produce great music. And no rock star is going to persuade me to buy dish soap or beer any more than some jock. . If what Corgan says is true, we're going to get more "lifestyle music" that is attached to the consumer items bought by people who identify with that lifestyle. It's already boring. Can you imagine more of it? Guys like Tom Petty must be very grateful that they came of age as artists when they did, free of the focus and the burden of producing their songwriting and music towards the goal of selling advertising. I just thought, in the moment he said this: If its not about the music come on - shoot yourself. This kind of thinking is exactly the problem. The consumers have to learn again that music is worth something, it has a value. They have to pay for it, its not a marketing gimmick. If we teach them, buy this fucking Pepsi and you get on top the new SP album. In this case we teach them that music is worth nothing. Its the same kind of thinking what U2 had with Apple. The psychological signal to consumers is fatal. Paul McCartney did it with Starbucks. Last week I saw a poster in the streets of Berlin - advertising free studio time for Bands by a famous Beer company. SIGH, they do not even care about the music, they care for the marketing gimmick. Target group musicians = drinking. I would rather close my doors before I would take money by those fake events.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Jul 26, 2015 10:26:38 GMT -6
While I agree in principle with Billy Corgan , Billy himself is the reason Billy's no longer relevant!
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Post by Guitar on Jul 26, 2015 17:12:02 GMT -6
Despite all his rage he is still just a rat in a cage.
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Post by jazznoise on Jul 26, 2015 17:38:07 GMT -6
He's now a Libertarian. Just when I thought I couldn't respect him less.
First 3 albums are still great, but Billy is a toad.
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Post by gouge on Jul 26, 2015 18:02:13 GMT -6
maybe it was esp but I pulled out gish 3 days ago and put it on. the ross martins are making me relive the great albums and gish is outstanding. always been a fan of the pumpkins. some good times were had to their music.
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Post by gouge on Jul 26, 2015 18:04:31 GMT -6
I really dislike this (I'm paraphrasing) "music is just the lubricant for personal branding" philosophy. I can't imagine if the main goal is to sell advertizing that that mentality is going to produce great music. And no rock star is going to persuade me to buy dish soap or beer any more than some jock. . If what Corgan says is true, we're going to get more "lifestyle music" that is attached to the consumer items bought by people who identify with that lifestyle. It's already boring. Can you imagine more of it? Guys like Tom Petty must be very grateful that they came of age as artists when they did, free of the focus and the burden of producing their songwriting and music towards the goal of selling advertising. I just thought, in the moment he said this: If its not about the music come on - shoot yourself. This kind of thinking is exactly the problem. The consumers have to learn again that music is worth something, it has a value. They have to pay for it, its not a marketing gimmick. If we teach them, buy this fucking Pepsi and you get on top the new SP album. In this case we teach them that music is worth nothing. Its the same kind of thinking what U2 had with Apple. The psychological signal to consumers is fatal. Paul McCartney did it with Starbucks. Last week I saw a poster in the streets of Berlin - advertising free studio time for Bands by a famous Beer company. SIGH, they do not even care about the music, they care for the marketing gimmick. Target group musicians = drinking. I would rather close my doors before I would take money by those fake events. I think you've missed the point. the consumers are paying for music and paying lots of money for music. the issue is they are paying apple and pepsi and not the artists. Corgan is saying artists need to start to believe in their value and make the large companies pay them for their craft.aka taylor swift sticking it to apple.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 26, 2015 18:04:56 GMT -6
Basically, U.S. radio has become utterly useless for promoting music due to what advertisers want programmed. Streaming live music could change everything provided it's treated like real radio with a host.
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Post by b1 on Jul 26, 2015 22:35:33 GMT -6
I think Corgan has some valid points, but in the end it seems he's mostly all about Billy. I don't think he'd reach a hand very far out to form an "artist type union" with any other than his own contact list. It would be nice if I was wrong about that. If more people who are able to draw the spot light from the news media spoke out, maybe eventually there would be an upward trend to artists being a unified force to form their own industry apart from the dying business model of using and abusing the foundation of the performing/recording arts - the artists and creators. If folks in and out of the industry who had an interest in what happens to all, in the form of building a new model apart from the vipers of the past, they could place a reasonable value on their work that couldn't be seconded guessed or whittled away by the "feckless idiots".
The same for a new broadcasting model... If it was taken in a different direction, where the end distribution networks would be vying for a position from an overseeing artists group, then there would be a viable and fair industry that benefits all; from bottom to top.
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 27, 2015 6:37:00 GMT -6
I just thought, in the moment he said this: If its not about the music come on - shoot yourself. This kind of thinking is exactly the problem. The consumers have to learn again that music is worth something, it has a value. They have to pay for it, its not a marketing gimmick. If we teach them, buy this fucking Pepsi and you get on top the new SP album. In this case we teach them that music is worth nothing. Its the same kind of thinking what U2 had with Apple. The psychological signal to consumers is fatal. Paul McCartney did it with Starbucks. Last week I saw a poster in the streets of Berlin - advertising free studio time for Bands by a famous Beer company. SIGH, they do not even care about the music, they care for the marketing gimmick. Target group musicians = drinking. I would rather close my doors before I would take money by those fake events. I think you've missed the point. the consumers are paying for music and paying lots of money for music. the issue is they are paying apple and pepsi and not the artists. Corgan is saying artists need to start to believe in their value and make the large companies pay them for their craft.aka taylor swift sticking it to apple. I see it from the perspective of a consumer.... its the same thing different point of view. In other words I say stop this, fake for free, thing in marketing. Maybe you have to think about my posts longer because I am not native speaker... LOL.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 27, 2015 9:40:21 GMT -6
Lots of people inside the industry fail to understand the role advertising plays. Back in the '70s the cheapest form of market research was calling local record stores to learn what people were buying. This worked very well for us. It was a supercharger on sales although not the instigator of sales like many people assumed.
Beginning in the '90s advertisers started choosing music based on its ability to sort listeners into the demographic groups they wanted to pitch to. Focus groups were employed to do this. At that point exposure diverged from sales to the point that airplay no longer reflects sales much at all. He who pays the piper is who calls the tune.
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ericn
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Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Jul 27, 2015 10:00:48 GMT -6
Lots of people inside the industry fail to understand the role advertising plays. Back in the '70s the cheapest form of market research was calling local record stores to learn what people were buying. This worked very well for us. It was a supercharger on sales although not the instigator of sales like many people assumed. Beginning in the '90s advertisers started choosing music based on its ability to sort listeners into the demographic groups they wanted to pitch to. Focus groups were employed to do this. At that point exposure diverged from sales to the point that airplay no longer reflects sales much at all. He who pays the piper is who calls the tune. It's funny Bob how many successful companies have done what Motown did, ask the seller who has as the same relationship with all the vendors what sells ! It works great as long as the company had a thick skin! To often when you ask the consumer you hear what you want to hear a dealers motive is to make money they don't care where it comes from! In the 80s in high school I remember pulling records at one of the small market stations a friend's dad still owns and seeing the consultants reports and thinking who are these guys? nobody really wants to hear this crap! It's when I realized the music had died and I wanted nothing to do with radio!
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2015 11:11:12 GMT -6
It's resultant of the "$ is the ONLY thing that matters" mantra, the free market has indeed spoken and it said Art is useless, "brought to u by Walmar t and transformers 17 the final final apocalypse"
when's the last time a good movie on par with say "as good as it gets" or ? came out? We're smack dab in the middle of a culture crisis, it's turned an utter bonehead shitfest 2000!
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 27, 2015 11:29:31 GMT -6
It's resultant of the "$ is the ONLY thing that matters" mantra, the free market has indeed spoken and it said Art is useless, "brought to u by Walmar t and transformers 17 the final final apocalypse" when's the last time a good movie on par with say "as good as it gets" or ? came out? We're smack dab in the middle of a culture crisis, it's turned an utter bonehead shitfest 2000! Meh, I think there are plenty of good movies still. No Country For Old Men was pretty killer. I really dug The Wrestler too just off the top of my head.
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 27, 2015 11:43:42 GMT -6
He's now a Libertarian. Just when I thought I couldn't respect him less. First 3 albums are still great, but Billy is a toad. Now I respect him more.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 27, 2015 11:53:20 GMT -6
We no longer have a free market where there is a direct relationship between those who create music and those who want to buy it.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2015 12:08:36 GMT -6
It's resultant of the "$ is the ONLY thing that matters" mantra, the free market has indeed spoken and it said Art is useless, "brought to u by Walmar t and transformers 17 the final final apocalypse" when's the last time a good movie on par with say "as good as it gets" or ? came out? We're smack dab in the middle of a culture crisis, it's turned an utter bonehead shitfest 2000! Meh, I think there are plenty of good movies still. No Country For Old Men was pretty killer. I really dug The Wrestler too just off the top of my head. exceptions, not the rule, there used to be many many good choices, not anymore imo.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 27, 2015 12:09:46 GMT -6
He's now a Libertarian. Just when I thought I couldn't respect him less. First 3 albums are still great, but Billy is a toad. Now I respect him more. no politics
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Post by Johnkenn on Jul 27, 2015 12:12:28 GMT -6
Did I just get moderated?
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