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Post by jimwilliams on Jul 19, 2015 10:37:22 GMT -6
99.9% of the time, people don't buy records because of the engineer or the producer. I used to when I was a NARAS member. I would buy CD's heavily discounted from them (they no longer offer that service to their membership). I would on occasion buy the "Best Engineered Record, non classical". I stopped when I found out that was a popularity contest without any criteria for best sound. It was Tom Petty's CD that stopped my buying of those "Best Engineered" CD's, it sounded like crap to me. Dirty, Nevey distortion all over that thing, awful.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 19, 2015 11:13:32 GMT -6
Man, I know what you mean Jim. I get compared to Tom Petty so often, I figured I should listen to the productions of his records as a reference, and I've been kind of shocked by some of them.
No disrespect to the man, we obviously have similar influences. His great songwriting and believable vocals clearly trump the production quality.
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 19, 2015 12:59:38 GMT -6
The most scary mistake I did was on a project I mixed where the singer had a 'whistling' thing happening on almost every 'ffff' on every track. The whistling frequency were pretty high up, like between 9.5-11k. The worst thing was that they were different all the time, so I had to check every spot, find the frequency and notch out very narrow, like 10-15dB. I really learned to hate that particular consonant!.. Anyway, to do this I looped the spot, used an eq plug to find the frequency by boosting 15dB very narrow Q, and then copied that frequency to the same eq in ProTools Audiosuite and processed. Then.. on one track I forgot to turn off the eq, printing the mix with that narrow band 15dB boost at around 10k on the lead vocal. Noone heard it, not the producer, arranger or artist, not even the mastering guy.. Luckily I listened to the master before the album went to print. Browsed each song for a minute, and on that song I jumped out of my chair and probably screamed something, opened the ProTools session and and found what I suspected, alerted everybody, printed a new mix and happy ending. Heavy sigh. edit: Why I didn't hear it myself while printing the mix? After the 15th half hour session of notching 9k+Hz tones I probably hated the tune, the singer, music, ProTools, my studio and the music business to the degree that I just turned off the volume.. The most remarkable mistake I've heard of was a friend of mine mixing one song for one of the top artists in Sweden in the 80s. He got a call from the mastering engineer asking if mixing in mono was deliberate.. My friend fixed it of course, still being very cool about it, saying 'Suit themselves if they call me!'. I'm trying to remember that when having Harakiri moments, like the one above. good bad story P! haha, hey, i think i have a good trick for you on this next time,... It goes like this, Duplicate the offending track, go in and remove all of the waveform info except for the offenders! Then invert the phase on that track, and bring the fader up just enough to cancel as much of that little bastard as you see fit 8) I'm pretty sure it's the most transparent and phase congruent way to accomplish this?... i think?... yaay! I love bisquetti! 8/
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Post by unit7 on Jul 19, 2015 15:23:08 GMT -6
good bad story P! haha, hey, i think i have a good trick for you on this next time,... It goes like this, Duplicate the offending track, go in and remove all of the waveform info except for the offenders! Then invert the phase on that track, and bring the fader up just enough to cancel as much of that little bastard as you see fit 8) I'm pretty sure it's the most transparent and phase congruent way to accomplish this?... i think?... yaay! I love bisquetti! 8/ Hey T, thanks! I'm not sure I follow you, either because of the language barrier, a glass of wine that I just had or that I'm just too stupid, but if this happens again I'd be desperate for a better solution than mine, so I'm going to PM you about this
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 19, 2015 17:04:12 GMT -6
good bad story P! haha, hey, i think i have a good trick for you on this next time,... It goes like this, Duplicate the offending track, go in and remove all of the waveform info except for the offenders! Then invert the phase on that track, and bring the fader up just enough to cancel as much of that little bastard as you see fit 8) I'm pretty sure it's the most transparent and phase congruent way to accomplish this?... i think?... yaay! I love bisquetti! 8/ Hey T, thanks! I'm not sure I follow you, either because of the language barrier, a glass of wine that I just had or that I'm just too stupid, but if this happens again I'd be desperate for a better solution than mine, so I'm going to PM you about this haha... Sorry, I kinda didn't say it very clearly, so i'll try to do it better now in case anyone else wants to try it? Ok, so create a duplicate track in your daw of the Vox track with the whistling problem, then zoom into the problem areas on the waveform, and separate those parts from the rest of the waveform, then delete all the remaining parts of the waveform from the duplicated track, leaving only the problem portions of the duplicated track behind, then flip the phase on this track, that will make it 180* out of phase with the original track, then bring the fader up on the duplicated track until it cancels the whistling on the original track to the degree that is acceptable to you, it should sound very smooth and transparent, and gives you lots of room to decide the amount of attenuation to apply to the problem. I think this is a great way to cancel just the offenders and keep the rest of the track in original phase formation without worrying about resonant bumps from using an eq. I hope this clears it up? T
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Post by unit7 on Jul 19, 2015 17:14:10 GMT -6
Hey T, thanks! I'm not sure I follow you, either because of the language barrier, a glass of wine that I just had or that I'm just too stupid, but if this happens again I'd be desperate for a better solution than mine, so I'm going to PM you about this haha... Sorry, I kinda didn't say it very clearly, so i'll try to do it better now in case anyone else wants to try it? Ok, so create a duplicate track in your daw of the Vox track with the whistling problem, then zoom into the problem areas on the waveform, and separate those parts from the rest of the waveform, then delete all the remaining parts of the waveform from the duplicated track, leaving only the problem portions of the duplicated track behind, then flip the phase on this track, that will make it 180* out of phase with the original track, then bring the fader up on the duplicated track until it cancels the whistling on the original track to the degree that is acceptable to you, it should sound very smooth and transparent, and gives you lots of room to decide the amount of attenuation to apply to the problem. I think this is a great way to cancel just the offenders and keep the rest of the track in original phase formation without worrying about resonant bumps from using an eq. I hope this clears it up? T Ok, I see now that this is exactly what you wrote in the first post. I'm restored from the drink, so I get it now! I have to try this tomorrow. I would have guessed I'd be cancelling out more than the whistling, but then I could of course just put an HPF @9k on the duplicate, to not mess with the 'body' of the ffff, which should be a bit lower than 9k I guess. Anyway, thanks Tony!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 19:02:45 GMT -6
Whoopsie, i should always refresh the browser before trying to help with things that are already solved..... LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 6:34:37 GMT -6
My biggest mixing fault is losing the focus on the song and getting lost in optimizing sound. This way i often get a nice sounding and very balanced track without any meaning, good sound, but somehow boring. Often has to do with mixing my own songs, LOL. I.e. i can not step back and hear the essence of the song, the specials i want to feature and the stuff that is good enough to just leave alone at lower levels. Voice too loud, which can often be fixed with my own voice by using some nice distortion and then turning it down. Too little attention to the simple or repetitive lines that could give the song style and a catchy character when you bring them up.
Another one: Using too much of everything. Pluginitis. I always have to remind myself how a small studio looked like in the eighties, a console, ONE rack with few effects, a reverb, a delay, Maybe a Multieffect, some gates and a few compressors. Maybe 2 or 4. Maybe an Aphex exciter or a Vitalizer. And if you are very very lucky and it's a bigger studio, a console with channel dynamics, all sounding the same. Same EQ on every channel. Tuning EQ by ear... My pluginitis often corresponds with the "everything too loud" fader-up syndrome and morbus compressor a.k.a. "compressed to death". There were many mixes of my own songs that were SO bad, that i did not keep a single copy of them. So much i hated the result. Once i accidentally deleted a whole lot of mixes at once in a rage about a bad mix. Of course without a backup....
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ericn
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Post by ericn on Jul 20, 2015 7:00:53 GMT -6
The biggest fault I hear in others mixes these days is that they are guessing about everything below 60 HZ ! Little baby speakers in bedrooms ! Don't assume it's not there just because you don't hear it !!
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 20, 2015 8:51:29 GMT -6
My biggest mixing fault is losing the focus on the song and getting lost in optimizing sound. I can not step back and hear the essence of the song, the specials i want to feature and the stuff that is good enough to just leave alone at lower levels. This is so true smallbutfine. I did 14 mixes of a song last week, basically three versions each version with a small tweak here and there. The mix I chose was definitely not the best sounding one, but it was the one that I felt the meaning of the song coming through. I do wish it was simpler.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 12:56:16 GMT -6
The biggest fault I hear in others mixes these days is that they are guessing about everything below 60 HZ ! Little baby speakers in bedrooms ! Don't assume it's not there just because you don't hear it !! And actually it's pretty easy to check this outside the studio without fullrange mains or without sub. All that may be needed is a pair of good headphones to be sure you don't mess things up there totally without having a clue....
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Post by mokobigbro on Jul 20, 2015 22:55:18 GMT -6
my biggest mixing mistake is getting satisfied too early, and patting myself on the back for the early success.
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Post by Guitar on Jul 21, 2015 17:10:34 GMT -6
I've made some mistakes: too compressed, too bright, wrong low end, vocal way too loud, overmixing, undermixing, it's tricky to get just right. Experience is worth so much, as well as monitoring quality, and sometimes having feedback from other people to tell you when you've got there or haven't yet. The last work I did for pay, the guy said "you're making changes so small no one will notice," and I knew he was right, and I knew it was time to stop obsessing and let the baby out into the world.
But I find my biggest mistakes are almost always artistic, or related to tracking and production. When I look back, I feel like my mixing almost always gets out of the way enough. When I've gotten to that point in a serious production, the mixing seems so dire that OCD takes over and you mix the hell out of it to the point of nausea. Of course you are inevitably going to hear one or two things you would have changed. And you are going to improve the more you do it. But usually the quality of the music will carry any halfway acceptable mix.
Most of the time the mistake is bad room acoustics, too much bleed, settling for a take that's not quite there, too many clams in a track. Not adding enough to the arrangement, not helping the singer get more comfortable, letting the drummer get away with playing some awful kit (he seems to insist), not spending enough time optimizing mic placement and choice. Accepting bad songs, accepting bad playing from musicians that really shouldn't be recording. You're either putting the hand-cuffs on yourself, or you're channeling or facilitating a higher vision. The turd polishing will only take you so far. It's better to polish stainless steel.
Even the gear used for tracking is much more important than the gear used for mixing. You could do a proper mix with nothing more than a laptop and some plugins and a decent pair of speakers, in a decent room. The instruments, microphones, and front end are doing most of the work. I think "produced by" and "written by" are more important credits than "mixed by." Obviously the goal is to go over the top in all areas, so mixing is still important. The holistic audio-human will probably be strong in every area not just one. I guess they all grow together. Maybe the mix is the last big push in the album process, so it's nice to have some momentum on the way there.
There are so many variations on the saying, it's something like, "the production and musicians were so good the track pretty much mixed itself." I feel like that's the real challenge. At that point it's either too late, or so optimized that the mixing is just sort of trying not to ruin it, and pushing the vibe front and center. You could almost lump both mixing and mastering into that term "post-production." Even the ideal of a "perfect mix" is different from decade to decade, genre, or person to person.
I know there are some people out there that are exclusively mix engineers, but it seems like more often we end up being a producer, mixer, artist, some combination of those things, even mastering sometimes. Especially those of us who don't get paid. Mixing is challenging, but the art and the production really is the essence. I suppose I think those areas are a lot harder to master than the art of mixing, and where most people including myself go wrong. And I suppose the sage mixer is always focused on enhancing exactly those things.
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Post by jazznoise on Jul 21, 2015 17:28:39 GMT -6
Long reverbs. Quickly got rid when I realized they were making my mixes even worse than they already are.
I think I might be the opposite to most folks here that I won't so much as touch an EQ until I have the ideas laid out as close as I can. I can't mix the creative and the corrective very well and I know as soon as I go down that road, I'm much less likely to just do a new overdub. I'll just keep futzing instead of trying new ideas or new parts and the music suffers.
Obviously doing weird VST plugs or specific effects is different, but yeah - no mixing until the musical ideas are in place.
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