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Post by jeromemason on Jul 14, 2015 22:39:59 GMT -6
Compression for a while was like the 'Thing' to do, and I think a lot of that came from Chris Lord Alge and the wall of compressors behind him, needles burying on almost every track that was patched into them. It's my belief though that he was probably doing more parallel compression than actually mangling a snare drum or a vocal to death. I think he and a few others were hyping compression a lot around 2005 or so and it caught on and suddenly everyone was squashing like crazy. That's how I remember it.
I took some time to study compression and what I needed it for and to only use it when I need it, and to only use enough of it to do what I needed it to do, sometimes that means burying the needle, just depends on what you're feeding it. I used to believe in slow attack, fast release, sure made the meters move a lot. These days I'm more of using the attack a bit more, not using the threshold so much, and letting my release times hang out there ALOT longer. I think every style of music uses compression different, when you hear this mixer or that mixer talking about compression, see what kind of material he's working on and whether or not you fit in that same group because if you don't, I wouldn't listen to what they are telling you.
An example, on a vocal, you'll hear some of these mixing engineers drive the point about the release time being in the rhythm of the song... not that what they are saying isn't true, but for me, it means how is my compression releasing in relationship to the groove of the song. I wouldn't want a vocal to align with 0db on my meter at the end of a phrase, but I want there to be a smooth movement during an entire line, that's the release to groove ratio I'm looking at. The attack is more to dial in the aggression, and I think some folks get it mixed up, thinking the release is where the aggression is. Things that are percussive, I really only compress if I'm trying to pull something out of the floor, and that's how I imagine it in my mind. If a snare has a nice full body snap to it w/ no compression, don't compress it, doesn't need it. If a badass bass player has given you a very even and song dependent dynamic performance, don't compress it so much, just enough to make it sit while the whole mix is playing and that's it.
Today we have so much parallel compression at our fingertips that is made by the actual unit, and it's brilliant, but if you know what you're doing with compression you don't need those mix knobs as much, I like to use them a little just to put a little thump or movement in. Compression, phew man it's like what everybody wants to talk about and it's always going to be brought up in a convo when folks are talking about chops, making tunes and gear. If you listen though to some of those badass guys whose mixes sound absolutely enormous, you know, they really are not talking about compression that much, they are talking about how they placed the mics and what room it was recorded in and the distance the source was from the mic, it's never about how much compression they used to make it sound massive.
Just my .02
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 15, 2015 0:10:46 GMT -6
I would much rather have a really good studio for vocals as opposed to drums. Motion in front of the mike is one of the main problems requiring compression. When you have a good enough studio to move the singer back two or three feet, the sound quality and "balls" of the vocal increases because a lot less compression is required. I had this joy tracking a classcal guitar player in a large room. A single UMT 70s omnidirectional, it was about 1,5 meter away form the source, still sounded near and full. But this was a complete wooden room - about 300 square meters space. In my small studio I do not have such a place.  |
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Post by noah shain on Jul 15, 2015 0:56:01 GMT -6
Compression is SO MUCH more than dynamics control. I can say, for me, dynamics control (meaning a constant "volume" level) is the LAST thing I'm thinking about when I'm dialing in a compressor. I'm trying to get things to breathe and pump and move forward or back in a mix, to be larger than life or small and pinched and persistent or rounded or fat or sometimes brighter or darker than they did (depending on compressor choice and settings) or any number of adjectives and characters that have very little to do with a constant volume level. Bass...that's 1 element of a mix that I DO want to tame as far as large volume jumps.
But I work mostly in modern rock, pop and alternative music. I don't want it to sound like a band in a room at all. I'm not looking for authenticity in the sound. In the soul of the performance, yes, but not in the SOUND. I absolutely could not do my job without a whole bunch of compressors working overtime.
In fact, I have had more disappointing results when I let myself believe the ANTI-compressor hype and don't use enough compression.
2 bus compression and sub group compression can be just god awful and has ruined plenty of my mixes...I AM gentle there and the better I get to know my compressors and use them in a powerful way on individual tracks, the less I compression the 2 bus in a lazy, misguided effort to make a lackluster mix exciting.
Not everything I compress gets pulverized like a vocal and a bass do and not every mix gets a slammed vocal and bass but for the most part, compression (weather accomplished with a compressor or amplifier stages) and compressors are THE tools I use to get a mix HAPPENING. No amount of rides on a vocal or a guitar will sound like an 1176. No amount of eq or compression will make room mics sound the way they sound through a 33609 when you dial it in just right.
It was when I figured out how to work an 1176 that I felt like I could make rock albums. When I could get THAT sound I'd been after for a freaking decade.
Interview after interview with heralded mixers have them extolling the beauty of their favorite compressors. It's a BIG part of the sound of modern music.
Obviously not ALL genres benefit from the heavy use of compressors but modern rock, pop, country, R&B, dance, indie etc. sound like compression. Not a slammed 2 bus but the creative and discerning use of select units is absolutely central the sound of many records. It took me years to hear it and more years to learn how to do it but as I learn more and get better at using compressors, my records sound BETTER. Not more compressed but more alive and skillfully crafted.
in the genres I work in, I'd get fired if I didn't use compressors. My clients (labels and artists) may not know it but compression is the sound they want many times...Not squashed and lacking dynamic range, just done right.
Man, compression is a big part of the sound of SO MANY seminal recordings.
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Post by mrholmes on Jul 15, 2015 1:48:33 GMT -6
Compression is SO MUCH more than dynamics control. I can say, for me, dynamics control (meaning a constant "volume" level) is the LAST thing I'm thinking about when I'm dialing in a compressor. I'm trying to get things to breathe and pump and move forward or back in a mix, to be larger than life or small and pinched and persistent or rounded or fat or sometimes brighter or darker than they did (depending on compressor choice and settings) or any number of adjectives and characters that have very little to do with a constant volume level. Bass...that's 1 element of a mix that I DO want to tame as far as large volume jumps. But I work mostly in modern rock, pop and alternative music. I don't want it to sound like a band in a room at all. I'm not looking for authenticity in the sound. In the soul of the performance, yes, but not in the SOUND. I absolutely could not do my job without a whole bunch of compressors working overtime. In fact, I have had more disappointing results when I let myself believe the ANTI-compressor hype and don't use enough compression. 2 bus compression and sub group compression can be just god awful and has ruined plenty of my mixes...I AM gentle there and the better I get to know my compressors and use them in a powerful way on individual tracks, the less I compression the 2 bus in a lazy, misguided effort to make a lackluster mix exciting. Not everything I compress gets pulverized like a vocal and a bass do and not every mix gets a slammed vocal and bass but for the most part, compression (weather accomplished with a compressor or amplifier stages) and compressors are THE tools I use to get a mix HAPPENING. No amount of rides on a vocal or a guitar will sound like an 1176. No amount of eq or compression will make room mics sound the way they sound through a 33609 when you dial it in just right. It was when I figured out how to work an 1176 that I felt like I could make rock albums. When I could get THAT sound I'd been after for a freaking decade. Interview after interview with heralded mixers have them extolling the beauty of their favorite compressors. It's a BIG part of the sound of modern music. Obviously not ALL genres benefit from the heavy use of compressors but modern rock, pop, country, R&B, dance, indie etc. sound like compression. Not a slammed 2 bus but the creative and discerning use of select units is absolutely central the sound of many records. It took me years to hear it and more years to learn how to do it but as I learn more and get better at using compressors, my records sound BETTER. Not more compressed but more alive and skillfully crafted. in the genres I work in, I'd get fired if I didn't use compressors. My clients (labels and artists) may not know it but compression is the sound they want many times...Not squashed and lacking dynamic range, just done right. Man, compression is a big part of the sound of SO MANY seminal recordings. That fits the bill. For some reason I was trained to not use it in a heavy way. But in this particular song it sounds very good. Learning never stops. |
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Post by gouge on Jul 15, 2015 6:36:43 GMT -6
being able to use compression in a heavy way is something only really afforded by digital recording. with tape the noise floor soon comes to bite if you over compress things.
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Post by svart on Jul 15, 2015 6:43:56 GMT -6
Compression is SO MUCH more than dynamics control. I can say, for me, dynamics control (meaning a constant "volume" level) is the LAST thing I'm thinking about when I'm dialing in a compressor. I'm trying to get things to breathe and pump and move forward or back in a mix, to be larger than life or small and pinched and persistent or rounded or fat or sometimes brighter or darker than they did (depending on compressor choice and settings) or any number of adjectives and characters that have very little to do with a constant volume level. Bass...that's 1 element of a mix that I DO want to tame as far as large volume jumps. But I work mostly in modern rock, pop and alternative music. I don't want it to sound like a band in a room at all. I'm not looking for authenticity in the sound. In the soul of the performance, yes, but not in the SOUND. I absolutely could not do my job without a whole bunch of compressors working overtime. In fact, I have had more disappointing results when I let myself believe the ANTI-compressor hype and don't use enough compression. 2 bus compression and sub group compression can be just god awful and has ruined plenty of my mixes...I AM gentle there and the better I get to know my compressors and use them in a powerful way on individual tracks, the less I compression the 2 bus in a lazy, misguided effort to make a lackluster mix exciting. Not everything I compress gets pulverized like a vocal and a bass do and not every mix gets a slammed vocal and bass but for the most part, compression (weather accomplished with a compressor or amplifier stages) and compressors are THE tools I use to get a mix HAPPENING. No amount of rides on a vocal or a guitar will sound like an 1176. No amount of eq or compression will make room mics sound the way they sound through a 33609 when you dial it in just right. It was when I figured out how to work an 1176 that I felt like I could make rock albums. When I could get THAT sound I'd been after for a freaking decade. Interview after interview with heralded mixers have them extolling the beauty of their favorite compressors. It's a BIG part of the sound of modern music. Obviously not ALL genres benefit from the heavy use of compressors but modern rock, pop, country, R&B, dance, indie etc. sound like compression. Not a slammed 2 bus but the creative and discerning use of select units is absolutely central the sound of many records. It took me years to hear it and more years to learn how to do it but as I learn more and get better at using compressors, my records sound BETTER. Not more compressed but more alive and skillfully crafted. in the genres I work in, I'd get fired if I didn't use compressors. My clients (labels and artists) may not know it but compression is the sound they want many times...Not squashed and lacking dynamic range, just done right. Man, compression is a big part of the sound of SO MANY seminal recordings. Nah, Johnkenn, this ^^^^ is the post folks should pay for.. Pure gold. I've found my 33609 settings, and my 1176 settings, and Noah is right, nothing sounds like it. It's not limiting, nor is it compression for level flattening, it's exaggerating transients or level changes causing things to get fun and exciting, for effect. The only thing I do compress for reducing dynamic range is vocals. |
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Post by ericn on Jul 15, 2015 7:16:46 GMT -6
Having grown up at FOH and Wedges, I have always viewed dynamics as control or effects! Now days everybody has to hear their expensive comp, that wasn't always the case. Always used more limiting with just a kiss of compression. I often comment that I can hear the gain reduction meter slamming against the little Merle peg on most modern recordings, TV and even Film! Yeah, but how did it sound? I'm actually with you Eric, I took that peg on VU meters when I got into recording as some kind of governor. It must have been, right? I'd flinch when you could hear the needle hitting the peg as you slammed some gain structure somewhere. I remember this one studio where every piece of gear had a VU and the monitors where a Pair of old Audio Anylist S4's but all the JBls where "upgraded" with EV drivers the window was more of a porthole! Anyway the guy hit everything Hard and even with the monitors rocking you could here this mass of clicking as all those VUs bottomed out! I spent way to much time trying to teach the guy that wasn't how to record and that S4s are terrible at 5 feet ! |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Jul 15, 2015 7:44:54 GMT -6
Great post noah shain! I too do alot of modern rock and am a self admitted smasher. I thought I was the only one haha!
Before I really dig into a comp I like to hit one or too before it to softly level and prevent huge swings.
That being said, I do run into sibilance issues on some vocalists because of the smashfest. How do you deal with this? De ess before the smash? Maybe a little before and a little after? I just updated my computer and dont really have a de esser I love. Im thinkin I might get an outboard piece. Maybe the derr eser 500.
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Post by Randge on Jul 15, 2015 8:06:26 GMT -6
I hear way too much compression on most stuff. Even TV is tough to listen to. Everything is pushed and it causes listening fatigue. I couldn't agree with you more, Jim. |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Jul 15, 2015 8:27:55 GMT -6
I would much rather have a really good studio for vocals as opposed to drums. Motion in front of the mike is one of the main problems requiring compression. When you have a good enough studio to move the singer back two or three feet, the sound quality and "balls" of the vocal increases because a lot less compression is required. THAT'S my main issue. I live on the ground floor in a NYC apartment, with the motors for two elevators directly underneath, as well as a busy laundry room with machine's humming all day. There's a hum that even HPF's past 120 hz can't get rid of. I can't quite get the gain loud enough to allow me to sing from further back, because there's just too much hum and noise that way. Nowadays I dream of being in a decent sounding room to track in. Of course, good studios are still available, but the convenience of putting up a vocal without performance pressure, an appointment or a bill is just too difficult to give up. Such great posts here today! I have an unusual perspective. I left the music business, so when I returned, it was like I'd been in a time capsule. Three years ago, I bought an Apollo to do a song for my wedding, and the last time I'd recorded anything myself, I pushed tape recorder buttons. I'd never used a DAW, didn't know what a plug-in was. Somehow, I managed to get something decent done those first three days I tracked for my wedding song, and then dug in deep, as my learning curve was beyond steep. So, my sonic references had always been analog, other than CD's I've bought done digitally. My favorite albums sonically are Lyle Lovett's "Road to Ensenada", Mark Knopfler's "Sailing to Philadelphia", but I also use Ryan Adams' "Two" as a modern production reference. I've struggled with getting a vocal sound I like, and the particular combination of mic, preamp and compressor that wows me has been elusive, to say the least. Cowboy posted something about the importance of getting EQ right in the first place, and I've been guilty of rushing to push the "record" button many times. Compressors have been track savers for me, because I haven't planned on mastering my demos, but it was a mistake that I didn't run uncompressed versions of the same track, in case I do master at some point. I don't have the exact session of any particular mix saved, as I often went back and tweaked, ran a new mix, twaked some more, ran a new mix, and only later discovered I liked a track three mixes back that wasn't saved. If it was New Years, my resolution is to get my $hit together now, but it's been painful. So, now I mix with no compression on the 2 bus until it sounds good, pop on Slate's VBC, set on a high def preset, and voila! It's pretty damn good, add a "pinch", ( like 3-6 db ;-)) more clean compression and I'm done. Often, I've begun skipping the tape sim, no Clariphonic, no Pultec or Massive passive plug ins on the 2 bus, and the fewer plugs, the better it sounds. That said, I feel guilty for pounding the shit out my tracks, but I do need my demos to be as loud as today's pro tracks are, and I know, it sucks, but there it is. Maybe I can get back to a more natural recording system if I can get some traction with my writing again. Crossing fingers.. * Noah, some paragraph spacing next time you write a long post please :-) I found it hard to read the way it was posted. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 15, 2015 8:52:48 GMT -6
Unless I misread? Noah was saying he smashes stuff more jokingly, anchoring bass and vox as "level"with more compression is the norm, he uses very little on busses, and uses it primarily to CREATE MORE DYNAMICS, this is how I've seen great mixers use compression, and what 9 out of 10 mixers DONT use it for. Most squeeze to hyper level or smash the life out of it, static mixes are boring, they will not hold the attention of a listener plain and simple, compression is supposed to be the vehicle that moves the music in its constrained medium(2 speakers), and give it life! it has very little to do with "smash" in the hands of a real pro.
I would also add that 6db of anything is a lot more than i've seen used at one time, serial compression works much better and with small doses, that's the logic behind the GML 8900 design in a single unit, it lightens the load more doing less, the serpent SB4000 has 4 vca's in it! this also increases s/n and dynamic range.
I'm going to take this a step further by going to the "it's not the mix it's the song" haha, I personally think it's a mistake that anyone should get wrapped up in the idea that your mix is going to make or break a tune, you should be creative as possible, while concentrating on being true to laws of physical limitations to make the best sounding mix possible within those limitations(stupid ass loudness clip distortion? 8), if the song is worth a shit, your great sounding mix will only be that much better for it when the listener turns it up! If you think an average listener says "wow! that mix is very post modern compressed rock", "or "it's not competitive in it's crush", you are deluding yourself plain and simple, make it sound great and slam the speakers, and remember that "slamming" the speakers comes from more dynamics, not less.
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Post by jimwilliams on Jul 15, 2015 9:05:44 GMT -6
I would much rather have a really good studio for vocals as opposed to drums. Motion in front of the mike is one of the main problems requiring compression. When you have a good enough studio to move the singer back two or three feet, the sound quality and "balls" of the vocal increases because a lot less compression is required. Bob, how's a studio 'good' for a mic distance like that? Just good sounding in terms of early reflections? Much is dependent on style of music. Pop/rock vocals are cut close with a LDC. Watch old sessions and you see vocalists further away from the mic than is done today. That opened up more dynamics without the proximity effect clouding it all up. Other styles require different approaches. Opera is cut at a distance of about 3~4 feet with SDC's. Jazz is done all sorts of ways. For an alternative approach, check out "Songs From Within" by Sheila Jordan on the MA label (MA014A). Cut at a distance with Harvie Swartz on acoustic bass, it shows what distance micing with a SDC (B+K 4006) can do with a great mic preamp (mine). No EQ, no compression, pure joy. www.marecordings.com |
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Post by warrenfirehouse on Jul 15, 2015 9:16:20 GMT -6
Unless I misread? Noah was saying he smashes stuff more jokingly, anchoring bass and vox as "level"with more compression is the norm, he uses very little on busses, and uses it primarily to CREATE MORE DYNAMICS, this is how I've seen great mixers use compression, and what 9 out of 10 mixers DONT use it for. Most squeeze to hyper level or smash the life out of it, static mixes are boring, they will not hold the attention of a listener plain and simple, compression is supposed to be the vehicle that moves the music in its constrained medium(2 speakers), and give it life! it has very little to do with "smash" in the hands of a real pro. I would also add that 6db of anything is a lot more than i've seen used at one time, serial compression works much better and with small doses, that's the logic behind the GML 8900 design in a single unit, it lightens the load more doing less, the serpent SB4000 has 4 vca's in it! this also increases s/n and dynamic range. Sorry if my terminology was misleading. What I meant by "smashing" was hitting a comp hard. I fully understand the difference between squashing dynamics and driving a comp hard to pump and breathe musically. Im not saying I have it all figured out just yet but im getting closer to where I want to be everyday and Im having a blast learning! Good to hear your love for the serpent, the sb4001 will be my next lunchbox addition in the near future. |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 15, 2015 9:28:51 GMT -6
Bob, how's a studio 'good' for a mic distance like that? Just good sounding in terms of early reflections? Much is dependent on style of music. Pop/rock vocals are cut close with a LDC. Watch old sessions and you see vocalists further away from the mic than is done today. That opened up more dynamics without the proximity effect clouding it all up. Other styles require different approaches. Opera is cut at a distance of about 3~4 feet with SDC's. Jazz is done all sorts of ways. For an alternative approach, check out "Songs From Within" by Sheila Jordan on the MA label (MA014A). Cut at a distance with Harvie Swartz on acoustic bass, it shows what distance micing with a SDC (B+K 4006) can do with a great mic preamp (mine). No EQ, no compression, pure joy. www.marecordings.comI saw it said somewhere that rooms were less acoustically thoughtout back in the day? I understand it to be just the opposite, you had great big beautiful rooms back in the day, set up by guys with no emulation plug ins haha, with gobo's and curtain walls to shrink them down acoustically, somehow i think thats a bit more sophisticated than the drywall bedroom at memum's house 8) |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 15, 2015 9:34:10 GMT -6
Good sounding in terms of early reflection frequency response and ambient noise. |
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 15, 2015 9:48:55 GMT -6
Studio "design" started being sourced from the clown car beginning in the 1970s. Only those of us lucky enough to have worked in old style rooms with great musicians completely realize this. As for "style," 99% is who and what is in front of the mikes. More "balls" is ALWAYS better than less "balls."
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Post by b1 on Jul 15, 2015 9:58:37 GMT -6
Studio "design" started being sourced in the clown car beginning in the 1970s. Only those of us lucky enough to have worked in old style rooms with great musicians completely realize this. That has always been at the forefront of my thinking during tracking; what you guys did and the equipment you worked with, as well as the space. I usually avoid the compressor discussions, because I pop up as the odd man out. I look for ways to avoid compression and set out to get the sound and dynamics I want before printing tracks. I'll sometimes use compression on very rhythmic guitars or vocals, but if it destroys the dynamics of what I'm aiming for, I backtrack and do it again. It takes longer and makes work harder, but I find that I'm more pleased with the end result. I'm not discussing Mastering here. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Jul 15, 2015 10:51:32 GMT -6
CREATE MORE DYNAMICS, this is how I've seen great mixers use compression, and what 9 out of 10 mixers DONT use it for. Most squeeze to hyper level or smash the life out of it, static mixes are boring, they will not hold the attention of a listener plain and simple, compression is supposed to be the vehicle that moves the music in its constrained medium(2 speakers), and give it life! it has very little to do with "smash" in the hands of a real pro. THIS ^. To repeat again... Compression allows a less dynamic mix to have life and movement. Without compression...modern, close mic'd, multitracked recordings would sound boring and lifeless, IMO. Flat. The compression gives it back some soul. |
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Post by b1 on Jul 15, 2015 11:20:04 GMT -6
Unless I misread? Noah was saying he smashes stuff more jokingly, anchoring bass and vox as "level"with more compression is the norm, he uses very little on busses, and uses it primarily to CREATE MORE DYNAMICS, this is how I've seen great mixers use compression, and what 9 out of 10 mixers DONT use it for. Most squeeze to hyper level or smash the life out of it, static mixes are boring, they will not hold the attention of a listener plain and simple, compression is supposed to be the vehicle that moves the music in its constrained medium(2 speakers), and give it life! it has very little to do with "smash" in the hands of a real pro.I'm going to take this a step further by going to the "it's not the mix it's the song" haha, I personally think it's a mistake that anyone should get wrapped up in the idea that your mix is going to make or break a tune, you should be creative as possible, while concentrating on being true to laws of physical limitations to make the best sounding mix possible within those limitations(stupid ass loudness clip distortion? 8), if the song is worth a shit, your great sounding mix will only be that much better for it when the listener turns it up! If you think an average listener says "wow! that mix is very post modern compressed rock", "or "it's not competitive in it's crush", you are deluding yourself plain and simple, make it sound great and slam the speakers, and remember that "slamming" the speakers comes from more dynamics, not less.Tony described me as a listener ^^^... In the neighborhood of 80-90 of the stuff I hear in all forms of media is unlistenable to me. This is what we were discussing in another thread about "copycat" styles and forms of expression. I lose interest as a listener when I hear "monotone" compression (poor term) and loudness to match the current market. IMHO, people should be making music and not "making tracks". Dynamics are what flavors our auditory perception as humans. If compression in limited forms achieves that, then kudos to the ones who figured it out. In the current compressed market, I feel that your song/mix becomes the song/mix of someone else and has no positive effect on me as a listener, but will rather inspire me to jump ship in favor of music as a dynamic form of communication and expression... maybe my 5 cents, lol. |
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Post by joseph on Jul 15, 2015 12:54:54 GMT -6
Echoing some points above. Here's a list of things I've applied from others' insights which have helped a great deal.
-Recording in a good room with good musicians playing together, and miking things carefully with the right mics and combinations of brighter/darker mics at a distance makes compression or eq much less necessary.
-Drums are less pointy and can breathe when you use the close mics for reinforcement, and overheads and room mics (sometimes with expander keyed to snare) for the big picture of the kit, size/body. The drummer needs to hit consistently and ease up on the cymbals. Ideally you use thinner cymbals for recording than live. Compression will not fix bad recording technique in drummer.
-Of all the instruments, vocals and bass need compression the most frequently.
-For bass touch is by far the most important thing, but sometimes hitting it with higher ratio than sounds good soloed can lock bass into place when you don't want it moving much but as the anchor. Sorta depends on if the kick or the bass is the low end foundation for the song, and tempo.
-Getting a singer to work the mic and stand back a bit on louder parts sounds much better than hitting a compressor harder. Singing with balls is better than eating the mic.
-When you have a big peak in level, like a belting, it sounds more natural to use trim and serial compression, with something first that can shave the jumps before it hits the compressor that is providing the real shaping and tone. I find TDR Kotelnikov with like 2-3.0db peak crest can sound very transparent before my preferred opto hardware comp. But 1176 > LA2A is same idea.
-For loud rimshots, similar to vocal approach, using 1176 as fast action peak limiter or anything fast enough shaving off 1-2db, and not super fast release (moderate enough to smooth the transient) before hitting the drum bus with a slower attack compressor or tape for weight and tone really helps. As opposed to hitting a compressor on bus directly, which will not work as well because the threshold will be too low for the peaks and too high for everything else; likewise the attack will be too slow for the big peaks but too fast for overall material.
I read Albini did this 1-2db 1176 for Grohl's snare, and often he tracks with peak limiters, and it's worked for me ever since, is very easy to do and not fuss over. Kick same idea but perhaps slower attack depending. I don't like compression on close mics per se, more as limiter.
-Parallel compression and multing can help with inconsistent snare or kick hits, or low level verses, and multing when you want to add body/attack/grit with separate and automatable control to things like Kick, Bass and Snare.
Parallel compression doesn't sound good on vocals because it screws with the phase too much.
Parallel compression and multing are not something to go overboard with in every situation and not very necessary when good arrangements are tracked well.
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Post by jeromemason on Jul 15, 2015 13:04:56 GMT -6
If you read through ALL of this I think you'll see a pattern in responses. There is no right or wrong way, there is just ways people use tools to arrive at a point that brings home the bacon, and that's the honest truth. If you're using compression to create movement and to alter the source and it's bringing the bacon home there's nothing wrong with that, you're getting paid. Likewise, if you're more into the more natural way of doing things and using different tools to arrive at the same point, which is bringing home the bacon, and you're doing it, then there's nothing wrong there either. Patterns also are pretty genre specific too, there's just no way you're going to apply the same compression techniques used in certain genre's to the others, it's part of a sound, and it's what the listeners are expecting. Like Noah said, and I said too, takes a lot of study to find out how to get the sound you're looking for when it comes to compression, even though they're two different ways of doing it, still took a lot of practice and listening to figure what he was looking for, took a while for me to figure what I was looking for too.
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Post by Bob Olhsson on Jul 15, 2015 17:16:49 GMT -6
One of the more amusing experiences I ever had was watching Glynn Johns interviewed at an AES convention. When he was asked what compressor he'd used on some album, he answered "Why in the fu*k would I do that? Compressors sound like sh!t on drums!" Prior to the '80s virtually no control room ever had more than four compressors and two was typical.
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ericn
Temp
Balance Engineer
Posts: 16,107
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Post by ericn on Jul 15, 2015 18:07:28 GMT -6
One of the more amusing experiences I ever had was watching Glynn Johns interviewed at an AES convention. When he was asked what compressor he'd used on some album, he answered "Why in the fu*k would I do that? Compressors sound like sh!t on drums!" Prior to the '80s virtually no control room ever had more than four compressors and two was typical. I remember when a highend room standard was 2 1176 2 La2 and another pair to taste or utility say s 160a! That was my goal! Now it's like everybody wants as many comps as Oceanway! |
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Post by noah shain on Jul 15, 2015 18:09:29 GMT -6
One of the more amusing experiences I ever had was watching Glynn Johns interviewed at an AES convention. When he was asked what compressor he'd used on some album, he answered "Why in the fu*k would I do that? Compressors sound like sh!t on drums!" Prior to the '80s virtually no control room ever had more than four compressors and two was typical. So funny...I just read an interview with ANDY Johns, where he states that if the studio doesn't have at least 6 1176s he can't work there. He says when he runs out of 1176s he uses la-2a, 3a, 4a and how he couldn't have made Zeppelin's Black Dog without the 1176. Brothers.... |
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Post by tonycamphd on Jul 15, 2015 19:12:27 GMT -6
One of the more amusing experiences I ever had was watching Glynn Johns interviewed at an AES convention. When he was asked what compressor he'd used on some album, he answered "Why in the fu*k would I do that? Compressors sound like sh!t on drums!" Prior to the '80s virtually no control room ever had more than four compressors and two was typical. So funny...I just read an interview with ANDY Johns, where he states that if the studio doesn't have at least 6 1176s he can't work there. He says when he runs out of 1176s he uses la-2a, 3a, 4a and how he couldn't have made Zeppelin's Black Dog without the 1176. Brothers.... could you please link that interview? i'd love to read it! |
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