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Post by mdmitch2 on Sept 4, 2015 10:08:00 GMT -6
So it seems the monitor controller is in the lead.. What kinds of features do folks want? Volume control Mute Dim (-10db pad?) Headphone amp Switch matrix (4 inputs to ?) Form factor? Desktop? Rackmount? Main thing is transparency of course... but I love the individual speaker mutes on my Main Gain. I like to listen to mono on one speaker only. Talkback would also be nice. |
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Post by svart on Sept 4, 2015 11:22:14 GMT -6
How much would IC'S affect the sound? I would definitely say desktop. Shouldn't be very much at all. Most of the design principle would be very high bandwidth (100khz+@3db) and as linear as the converters were (+/- 0.5db from 10hz-75khz). |
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Post by Johnkenn on Sept 4, 2015 11:43:37 GMT -6
So, you're saying that most of where it would change the sound would be above where the DA is reproducing? Plus aren't we 20-20k? Sorry, I'm a technical moron.
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Post by M57 on Sept 4, 2015 11:45:04 GMT -6
How about a channel strip where the pre is as transparent as possible, then down the line and in the order you chose, offer a palette of colors and even possibly the simplest/barebones of EQ and/or compression. Or don't even bother with the EQ/Comp. Just make it a "Color Machine". Think Mammothcave PassiveAggressive, but single channel with the pre included. Some features could be active and some passive, etc ..whatever you want to put in the thing, just make it a unique set of features.
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Post by svart on Sept 4, 2015 11:54:15 GMT -6
So, you're saying that most of where it would change the sound would be above where the DA is reproducing? Plus aren't we 20-20k? Sorry, I'm a technical moron. Humans are generally around 20hz-15khz, with some going lower and higher. The extra bandwidth is purely to appease those who believe that upper harmonics beyond human hearing can still affect how we perceive the audio within our hearing bandwidth. I'm just saying that my goal would be the least amount of audio change up and beyond the accepted bandwidth of human hearing.. |
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Post by b1 on Sept 4, 2015 11:58:37 GMT -6
So it seems the monitor controller is in the lead.. What kinds of features do folks want? Volume control Dual Mutes Dim (-10db pad?) Headphone amp Switch matrix (4 inputs to ?) Desktop form factor Talkback? Most of this design would be IC based, with relays for switching the matrix. Cost is a huge consideration. Costs of good step attenuators or matched precision pots are very expensive! This would be more like using IC ladder attenuators.. One of which sports a 0.0003% THD spec.. Volume control Dual Mutes Dim (-20db pad) Headphone amp Switch matrix (4 inputs to 4 outputs) Desktop form factor Talkback Included Control Surface  |
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Post by svart on Sept 4, 2015 12:02:05 GMT -6
How about a channel strip where the pre is as transparent as possible, then down the line and in the order you chose, offer a palette of colors and even possibly the simplest/barebones of EQ and/or compression. Or don't even bother with the EQ/Comp. Just make it a "Color Machine". Think Mammothcave PassiveAggressive, but single channel with the pre included. Some features could be active and some passive, etc ..whatever you want to put in the thing, just make it a unique set of features. I've thought about that. I've even thought about doing a whole mixer. I have some pretty good ideas of what I'd want in a mixer, and how to make them happen, but it would be extremely expensive to develop and would take a huge amount of time. I even have some preliminary schematics of channels that I was going to attempt to prototype and fit into my current mixer, but the costs were still prohibitive for personal satisfaction. In all, to do a commercial version would be in the 15K-20K price range for a full mixer I'm guessing, but that would be fully parametric EQ, good preamp, barebones compressor on channels and busses, etc. I could probably get that down to 10K-15K if I skimped on some of the parts. You wouldn't think it but one of the hardest parts of doing a design like the modular channel strip is all the mechanical stuff. It's expensive and you generally need multiple revisions to get everything right. The circuitry is the easy and relatively cheap part to develop! Doing a channel strip is a solid option, but doing it so that the sections are modular is much harder. |
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Post by svart on Sept 4, 2015 12:03:38 GMT -6
So it seems the monitor controller is in the lead.. What kinds of features do folks want? Volume control Dual Mutes Dim (-10db pad?) Headphone amp Switch matrix (4 inputs to ?) Desktop form factor Talkback? Most of this design would be IC based, with relays for switching the matrix. Cost is a huge consideration. Costs of good step attenuators or matched precision pots are very expensive! This would be more like using IC ladder attenuators.. One of which sports a 0.0003% THD spec.. Volume control Dual Mutes Dim (-20db pad) Headphone amp Switch matrix (4 inputs to 4 outputs) Desktop form factor Talkback Included Control Surface If I knew how to code apps, I would make it wireless and you could control it from a tablet and you could use that as your control surface! |
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Post by M57 on Sept 4, 2015 12:23:06 GMT -6
How about a channel strip where the pre is as transparent as possible, then down the line and in the order you chose, offer a palette of colors and even possibly the simplest/barebones of EQ and/or compression. Or don't even bother with the EQ/Comp. Just make it a "Color Machine". Think Mammothcave PassiveAggressive, but single channel with the pre included. Some features could be active and some passive, etc ..whatever you want to put in the thing, just make it a unique set of features. I've thought about that. I've even thought about doing a whole mixer. I have some pretty good ideas of what I'd want in a mixer, and how to make them happen, but it would be extremely expensive to develop and would take a huge amount of time. I even have some preliminary schematics of channels that I was going to attempt to prototype and fit into my current mixer, but the costs were still prohibitive for personal satisfaction. In all, to do a commercial version would be in the 15K-20K price range for a full mixer I'm guessing, but that would be fully parametric EQ, good preamp, barebones compressor on channels and busses, etc. I could probably get that down to 10K-15K if I skimped on some of the parts. You wouldn't think it but one of the hardest parts of doing a design like the modular channel strip is all the mechanical stuff. It's expensive and you generally need multiple revisions to get everything right. The circuitry is the easy and relatively cheap part to develop! Doing a channel strip is a solid option, but doing it so that the sections are modular is much harder. So what about a straight 19" rack mount 1 or 2U strip? If you made it single channel with the option of chaining two for people who might want it on a 2-buss. But really, keep it simple - the primary functionality is the front end. I'm thinking if it's a color machine, you don't really want a comp in there ..there are just too many options in terms of color and type - let the user worry about that, but a simple EQ (or maybe just low and highpass with wet/dry knobs so you could color specific frequency ranges and subtly mix them back into the signal) all placed somewhere strategically in the middle or even earlier in the chain - again, folks can throw any EQ they want on the end of things. I dunno - just thinking out of the box.. |
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Post by M57 on Sept 4, 2015 12:59:01 GMT -6
So what about a straight 19" rack mount 1 or 2U strip? If you made it single channel with the option of chaining two for people who might want it on a 2-buss. But really, keep it simple - the primary functionality is the front end. I'm thinking if it's a color machine, you don't really want a comp in there ..there are just too many options in terms of color and type - let the user worry about that, but a simple EQ (or maybe just low and highpass with wet/dry knobs so you could color specific frequency ranges and subtly mix them back into the signal) all placed somewhere strategically in the middle or even earlier in the chain - again, folks can throw any EQ they want on the end of things. I dunno - just thinking out of the box.. And speaking of OTB, you could include an insert at that EQ point so the user has the option inserting their own EQ/Comp/Effects, which then get processed ITB before it hits the wet/dry. If you did that, I think you'd still want to keep the bare-bones hp/lp there, making the unit more appealing to a larger customer base. Damn, this is too much fun ..must step away from the microphone. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Sept 5, 2015 11:08:09 GMT -6
Personally, I would like to see a real Mastering Console type thing, like the dangerous master, but for a low price. L/R input volume, a few insert points with in/out switches, mid side matrix, stereo spread, output level control, and some nice meters. Make that mofo look like battleship controls though.
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Post by rocinante on Sept 9, 2015 17:19:15 GMT -6
Personally, I would like to see a real Mastering Console type thing, like the dangerous master, but for a low price. L/R input volume, a few insert points with in/out switches, mid side matrix, stereo spread, output level control, and some nice meters. Make that mofo look like battleship controls though. Yep. Although id like it to be desktop or rackmountable. And personally id like at least 4 additional io for interfacing outboard. You know like a summerizer/mastering ctlr that could be and/or both. With Carnhill outputs please. |
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Post by jayson on Sept 10, 2015 6:18:24 GMT -6
This could be a suggestion or request for help: I've had the need convert TOSLINK to single mode fiber optic and back again recently. After a pretty good look around it appears I'm SOL. Extremely niche market converter idea, but apparently nobody makes one.
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Post by stratboy on Sept 10, 2015 14:38:28 GMT -6
I voted for the eq. Monitoring control could be good, too, but you would have to beat the drawmer 2.1. That could be difficult at the price point. Something like the 550 for less $$ would be very cool.
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Post by svart on Sept 10, 2015 15:00:45 GMT -6
This could be a suggestion or request for help: I've had the need convert TOSLINK to single mode fiber optic and back again recently. After a pretty good look around it appears I'm SOL. Extremely niche market converter idea, but apparently nobody makes one. Something like that could be handled with a little plastic adapter that adapts the fiber to TOSLINK style housings. ADAT/SPDIF/TOSLINK wouldn't really care about going from a large fiber to a small one, except that the intensity of the light would be cut due to the small diameter of the single mode fiber. Some receivers might not function that well with diminished light output through the fiber. You could do it electrically, with a transceiver, buffer and driver/transceiver circuit but it introduces unnecessary places for noise and jitter to ingress. |
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Post by jayson on Sept 12, 2015 6:46:39 GMT -6
Svart - Thanks for the response on this. What you're suggesting is exactly what I found in researching this on my own. Unfortunately I think for our purposes it's a solution that won't fly; we're doing a lot of broadcast out of a lot of hospitals that, if they have fiber infrastructure at all, we can't count on it being well developed enough to gamble on a passive conversion. It's a lot safer in our workflow to run analog line level and embed those audio channels into HDSDI, convert and shoot it down the fiber and de-embed on the other end. Unfortunately it's a lot more labor intensive to do it that way - a lot of patching.
I'm guessing it's not worth bothering right now - I think Dante will make it moot point before too long.
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Post by svart on Oct 11, 2017 11:21:14 GMT -6
Kinda reconsidering some of these options again..
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Post by Tbone81 on Oct 11, 2017 12:27:01 GMT -6
I think Eric mentioned in another post a while back about you doing a Burl type adda svart box that had some mojo doa or transformers on the inputs for color. That would be my vote, that or an inductor eq.
If you do the eq I'd make it dual mono, so it can be used on individual channels when tracking but also on stereo buses etc. A good outboard eq is next on my list, been waiting for the chameleon labs 560 to come out because I think that'll be the ticket (based on how the older 7602 sounded).
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Post by rocinante on Oct 11, 2017 13:06:15 GMT -6
Okay well this kind of sucks... so I was going to put out a monitor controller I designed, but yours is going to be probably better so yeah....
I think I'll just eat souvlaki.
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Post by rocinante on Oct 11, 2017 13:10:08 GMT -6
I also second a hi end summing adds. I have the multiple IO taken care of but I'd like a nice stereo 24/96-192 adda for mixdown.
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Post by svart on Oct 11, 2017 15:22:21 GMT -6
I also second a hi end summing adds. I have the multiple IO taken care of but I'd like a nice stereo 24/96-192 adda for mixdown. A nice 24/192 stereo AD/DA.. I may have already done that one though.. |
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Post by svart on Oct 11, 2017 15:26:45 GMT -6
Okay well this kind of sucks... so I was going to put out a monitor controller I designed, but yours is going to be probably better so yeah.... I think I'll just eat souvlaki. I don't know if I'd even do this one. Seems there are a lot of options out there for this already. I was sort of daydreaming on the options something like this would/could have and seems like a very daunting design. Something as simple as should it be buffered on each input, or simply just a relay crosspoint switch? A buffer would ensure constant impedance on each input and output, but would add considerable cost and would add a half dozen active and passive components to the signal path.. Just a relay-based crosspoint switch would only have relays but the I/O impedances would vary depending on what was plugged into the I/O.. And that's not even considering all the possible combinations of paths and features, etc.. |
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Post by rocinante on Oct 12, 2017 8:31:25 GMT -6
Okay well this kind of sucks... so I was going to put out a monitor controller I designed, but yours is going to be probably better so yeah.... I think I'll just eat souvlaki. I don't know if I'd even do this one. Seems there are a lot of options out there for this already. I was sort of daydreaming on the options something like this would/could have and seems like a very daunting design. Something as simple as should it be buffered on each input, or simply just a relay crosspoint switch? A buffer would ensure constant impedance on each input and output, but would add considerable cost and would add a half dozen active and passive components to the signal path.. Just a relay-based crosspoint switch would only have relays but the I/O impedances would vary depending on what was plugged into the I/O.. And that's not even considering all the possible combinations of paths and features, etc.. Yeah i know, its taken me f'ing forever. It works a charm right now but is ugly. With a new volume control display (that one is for you buddy) I hope to make it slightly more attractive. Right now its a JLM thingamobobber. |
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 5, 2017 13:06:08 GMT -6
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Post by jcoutu1 on Dec 7, 2017 13:58:44 GMT -6
Hey svart, this done yet? I waaannnnntttttt. |
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