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Post by lolo on Sept 9, 2013 8:01:38 GMT -6
Anyone using this verb?
thoughts?
is it so much better than the rest?
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Post by unit7 on Sept 9, 2013 11:43:24 GMT -6
Got it here. Never was a 480 fan back in the 90s when it was king, so I don't have an educated 480 ear, and can't say much about how close it is to the original. Of the Lexicon style software options available I just felt this was the most serious and I'm very happy with it. Have you tried the demo?
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Post by henge on Sept 9, 2013 14:46:53 GMT -6
Love it!! Never worked with a 480. This verb has the ability to surround and enhance like a good verb should.
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Post by lolo on Sept 9, 2013 17:09:01 GMT -6
Got it here. Never was a 480 fan back in the 90s when it was king, so I don't have an educated 480 ear, and can't say much about how close it is to the original. Of the Lexicon style software options available I just felt this was the most serious and I'm very happy with it. Have you tried the demo? I did try the demo I while ago. Really liked it. When it expired it just thought it was a bit too much $ at that time. Was hoping for the price to drop a bit. But now I miss the plug! |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 9, 2013 20:09:33 GMT -6
I use it on every vocal. What's different, and better to me about the ReLab is how it pressurizes the room, you feel it, and yet, it leaves room in the middle for all the reflection cues that position the vocal. So you get pounds of great verb and the vocal doesn't lose intelligibility or ever seem awash in echo. I demo'd the UAD 224 XL. I know that verb really well. UAD's plug emulates it perfectly. The thing is, the 480 just sounds better every time you compare it to anything with the 224 on it. It's the high res thing they're doing that's killer.
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Post by lolo on Sept 9, 2013 20:29:28 GMT -6
I use it on every vocal. What's different, and better to me about the ReLab is how it pressurizes the room, you feel it, and yet, it leaves room in the middle for all the reflection cues that position the vocal. So you get pounds of great verb and the vocal doesn't lose intelligibility or ever seem awash in echo. I demo'd the UAD 224 XL. I know that verb really well. UAD's plug emulates it perfectly. The thing is, the 480 just sounds better every time you compare it to anything with the 224 on it. It's the high res thing they're doing that's killer. What Algo do you mostly reach for? |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 9, 2013 22:08:43 GMT -6
I just stay on the R Hall HD. I've never even tried another preset, maybe one or two when I first got it, but it fits what I do perfectly. I like to use UAD's EMT140 on acoustic instruments.
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Post by kcatthedog on Sept 10, 2013 4:44:13 GMT -6
I demoed it but didn't buy it, like you cus of the expense. I know mjb's mixes and there is certainly something special about the relab ! you know language fails but I find it has a sort of blossoming effect, the actual vocal is right there but it is sort of presented with this wonderful sound envelop , the UA lex does not have this same quality. People who now HW verbs better than I do ( Cowboy) have commented that the relab plug gets the closest to a hi quality HW unit.
I can't say I have heard this same quality in another plug.
I have pt11 so I am not certain about the status of an aax64 bit version but one could print the verb in pt10 and then open session in pt11 ( to mix) and have the verb as an actual track.
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Post by lolo on Sept 10, 2013 5:20:05 GMT -6
Hopefully it goes on sale soon  miss this verb. |
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Post by popmann on Sept 10, 2013 9:00:33 GMT -6
I use hardware. FWIW.
The Lexicon hardware isn't the hard one for me to let go of. This was fine. The PCM Native was fine. I preferred the GUI of the PCM Native better, and when I demo'd this was a single algo, so...PCMn was a more useful package.
That said...the smooth swampy reverb of Lexicon is not the issue I have with software. That's the stuff where you're using reverb as an audible effect. Lots of things do that fine. This is no exception.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 10, 2013 9:12:20 GMT -6
Don't really get what you're saying popmann. I do think most verbs, even the ones that come for free with the Apollo or Logic are clean and work very well. The ReLab does stand out to me though. At the time I got the 480, I had a deal with UAD that would have gotten me the Lex 224 for $133. I bought something else with the credit, and paid the $400 for the ReLab. Once I had the ReLab demo, I felt I was missing something important without it.
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Post by popmann on Sept 10, 2013 9:23:11 GMT -6
I don't think "most reverbs" work well.
You understand that Lexicon is a very different sound than other reverbs, no? I'm saying--lots of software reverbs work fine for that sound. This IS one.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 10, 2013 13:39:26 GMT -6
Oh, you'd be surprised popmann. I've heard tracks that cowboy produced with a stock reverb that sounds like he was in a first class studio with a great reverb. I recently did a workshop with a sixteen year student. He'd just bought Logic X, and we purposely did the track with only what Apple made available with Logic X. I swear, one of the guitars sounds like it could be on a Coldplay album, just so sparkly and sweet, and the verb was perfect. That doesn't mean I don't appreciate and desire the sounds of certain reverbs. I used to own a few Lexicon reverbs, and I'm glad there are some plugs that capture a lot of their sound. I hear the biggest difference between the ReLab and all the others. The ReLab is extraordinary.
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Post by popmann on Sept 10, 2013 17:12:37 GMT -6
Believe me, I WAS surprised. I had no intention of keeping my hardware and integrating them into the DAW when I switched platforms.
It's all in how you use them. You're still talking sparkly and sweet---thus "reverb as effect". Yes, Relab and others are wonderful at that.
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Post by cowboycoalminer on Sept 11, 2013 19:18:49 GMT -6
This verb and any IR convulsion with the Bricasti M7 responses is all I ever use anymore.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 11, 2013 20:03:14 GMT -6
Didn't know what IR stood for, looked it up, found these verbs have convolution reverb: Do you know if any of these have the Bricasti M7 responses you mentioned?
Audioease Altiverb :Altiverb is highly regarded as one of the best Convolution Reverbs on the market, with extensive editing capabilities and a massive library of stunning high quality IRs. If you’ve got a spare $546 this should be your top choice.
Logic’s Space Designer, Ships free with Logic Studio. Good set of editing and sound manipulation tools, plus a huge library of high quality impulse responses. If you own Logic, this should be all you’ll ever need.
SIR2 Reasonably priced at $189, SIR2 is a fully featured convolution reverb plugin for Windows and OS X. Windows users can download the simplified version, SIR1, for free.
Voxengo Pristine Space Priced at $129, Voxengo Pristine Space is a full surround convolution reverb plugin. Windows only. They also have some have some handy IR utilities too.
Waves IR-1 or Trillium Labs TL Space: If your a Pro Tools user and have loads of cash you should try these. Both come with top notch features and IR libraries at a top notch price. A Native version of IR-1 will set you back a whopping $1,029, so you’ve really got to want it!
REVerence: Ships with Cubase 5
Kontakt2/3: Ships with a convolution reverb in its effects section.
* just realized I think I used Apple's Space Designer in an "all Logic" project for a student. I kept thinking one of the electric guitars sound as good as a Coldplay record, next time I open up a Logic X session, I'll check into it.
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Post by popmann on Sept 11, 2013 20:20:52 GMT -6
So, here's my deal...I made reference to "it's how you use it". I NEED a stereo input matrix on a reverb. Right now, in terms of software, Aether is the only one I've found (been meaning to demo 2c's newer one too)...with the old Sony Oxford having a partially stereo (with a good bit of cross). For twenty+ years I've used true stereo reverbs to mix...I've developed techniques around them...I was SO surprised to find it so underrepresented in software. Anyway, what I was trying to say earlier is that Lexi has NEVER had that kind of discrete input matrix, so for what I would use my Lexi, I could easily use the Relab or the PCM Native. But, I also don't need more than one instance, so...I just integrated my PCM91. What plug ins are really good at/for is adding reverb to a track. That sounds like semantics...but, let me explain--if you need a snare drum reverb....if you need a long reverb for a steel guitar...or to some degree to add to a lead vocal--these are all fine. But, if you're gonna set it up on a stereo aux buss and pan INTO the reverb send in order to create a sense of space and movement, they fall down. I've thought about rigging up something with two mono auxes, but then you don't get ANY cross in the tails, which would be...odd(er). I will continue to try new ones as long as they have a true stereo input, because my GOAL is to be 100% ITB. Because once I'm able to be happy with 100% ITB....that footprint shrinks and shirnks. In theory, I could be doing all my mixes ona some kind of "ipad Pro" in some years. As long as I rely on my current toolset, I need more IO....IO compensation that works well...racks to hold them....cabling... I've never wished for a UAD system...until I saw their ambience modeling plug in. Why? Know idea how it sounds, but it actually appears to be doing with a GUI what I do with the stereo matrix reverbs. And since I do know they have some sweet vintage plates...what more could I need? Anyone tried that one? www.uaudio.com/press/releases/2013/ocean-way-studios |
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 11, 2013 21:19:08 GMT -6
A little over my head there popmann, but I think I follow, a little.
I use my ReLab almost exclusively for vocals in a stereo aux bus. I send vocals to it, and usually use the UAD EMT-140 for instruments.
Are you saying I'm missing something by using my reverbs this way? Don't misunderstand me, I'm really curious, and haven't thought much about my reverb other than getting one I liked, finding one preset I prefer, and then just sending tracks to it via a bus.
UAD's EMT-140 feels real, and the more I work with plugs, the more I think their best value is in the presets. For instance, I have dozens of Ampeg ATR-120 presets to try. I get a mix, scroll though a few favorites, and inevitably, one really sings. I could never do all the calibrations necessary, even if I had the actual tape machine. Same with the 140, I can change plates in a second. These conveniences begin to tilt my choices in favor of ITB work, save a good preamp and a good A/D convertor.
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Post by popmann on Sept 11, 2013 22:23:03 GMT -6
Well, you're missing how I use reverb for the band...but, that doesn't mean you're inherently missing a quality. It's just a different technique to a different result.
Easiest example...I pan a guitar hard left....and pan it's send INTO the reverb hard right. That's why I need the stereo input matirx.
Doesn't mean it's "right/wrong"--it's just how I've worked for decades now....and I"ve not been able to achieve that with software reverbs. Surprised the hell out of me. When I switched to software mixing, I assumed I would use software reverb, which considering how old my hardware is, should KILL it...
Neither here nor there for the Relab, as it's the Lexi sound which this never applied to. they were never true stereo, but instead a sort of generated faux randomized stereo.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 11, 2013 23:13:06 GMT -6
That's interesting popmann, thanks. When I pan my guitar to say.. 75% left, or even 100 % left, I still hear some guitar on the right from the reverb, and I like that. I'd like to try what your suggesting if possible, just for fun. How would I go about sending to my reverb hard right when my guitar is panned left?
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Post by henge on Sept 12, 2013 6:20:54 GMT -6
Popmann, I believe the LX480 is true stereo as are the Valhalla verbs and the Exponential stuff...or am I missing something in how you want to pan into the verb?
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Post by popmann on Sept 12, 2013 9:14:27 GMT -6
It wasn't when it was the single also demo. Neither it Vallhalla...I've never used Exponential that I'm aware of.
MLB...you pan the send of it's way out of the channel. Back in the analog days...it took two knows for a stereo send, so you just adjusted it with their relative balance.
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Post by popmann on Sept 21, 2013 19:27:49 GMT -6
That's two KNOBS....ha....
Anyway, Dev says Exponential isn't. Wasn't he involved with the Lexi PCM NAtive (which also sounds liek a mono summed input to me)....? The Relab DOES appear to work as needed. This could be huge. How much are you guys paying for it? It directed me to site where I had to create an account to see the price...which is....um....some BS. Says it's a "$499....scratchthrough 'now on sale'" ....for? If this can replace my hardware, I will be a happy mang...ONE more step to complete ITB.
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Post by Martin John Butler on Sept 21, 2013 21:22:03 GMT -6
You'll love the ReLab, it's special in HD modes. It's probably $400 on sale.
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Post by henge on Sept 22, 2013 7:37:14 GMT -6
Well, you're missing how I use reverb for the band...but, that doesn't mean you're inherently missing a quality. It's just a different technique to a different result. Easiest example...I pan a guitar hard left....and pan it's send INTO the reverb hard right. That's why I need the stereo input matirx. Doesn't mean it's "right/wrong"--it's just how I've worked for decades now....and I"ve not been able to achieve that with software reverbs. Surprised the hell out of me. When I switched to software mixing, I assumed I would use software reverb, which considering how old my hardware is, should KILL it... Neither here nor there for the Relab, as it's the Lexi sound which this never applied to. they were never true stereo, but instead a sort of generated faux randomized stereo. Ok I just tried this with the Valhalla Verbs. Source is hard left and it's send is hard right. Both channels on the verb are triggered but the source is appearing mostly in the right, i guess as it should be. The source sound is NOT centered but leans to the right. Is this as it should be for your purposes? |
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